The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
two different mics in a blumlein pattern?
Old 17th February 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Question two different mics in a blumlein pattern?

hello

have you ever used two different mics in a blumlein pattern? how does it work? what types of mics?

i'm thinking of using my LDC or SDC along with figure-of-8 ribbon.

cheers
Old 17th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Avening's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveyTare ➡️
hello

have you ever used two different mics in a blumlein pattern? how does it work? what types of mics?

i'm thinking of using my LDC or SDC along with figure-of-8 ribbon.

cheers
A blumlein can be accomplished with any two microphones, both in the figure-of-eight pattern. With the exception of multi-pattern LDC's and Ribbons, I can't think of any other type of microphone that exhibits a figure-of-eight pattern.

I've personally tried a blumlein with a Royer 121 and an AKG 414 years ago which sounded decent, however, I eventually switched to using two 414's. The range of the polar patterns sounded more symmetrical to my ears.
Old 17th February 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
GordZilla's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Blumlein, by definition, requires two figure-8 capable mics, setup similar to X/Y with cardiods. There probably is no law against using two different figure-8 mics... but I would hazard a guess that identical mics will likely give the best results.

Are you perhaps thinking about Mid-Side stereo micing technique? This typically uses a cardiod mic pointing at the source, and a figure-8 mic positioned as close as possible to the cardiod mic, and pointing to the sides.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordZilla ➡️
Are you perhaps thinking about Mid-Side stereo micing technique? This typically uses a cardiod mic pointing at the source, and a figure-8 mic positioned as close as possible to the cardiod mic, and pointing to the sides.
i must admit i've thought that they are the same. so i guess it's not the best idea to use different mics for drums overheads, right? i think i'd give it a shot anyway, but was curious what do you guys think about it.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Mike Brown's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveyTare ➡️
i must admit i've thought that they are the same. so i guess it's not the best idea to use different mics for drums overheads, right? i think i'd give it a shot anyway, but was curious what do you guys think about it.
It is not the best idea if you are expecting both sides to sound similar.

I like mis-matched stereo pairs every once in awhile... gives a real interesting stereo image.
Old 17th February 2009
  #6
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Exclamation

Classic Blumlein is 90° figure-8s - so these really have to be identical.

But - Alan Blumlein himself used MS a lot of the time - and two figure-8s in MS give the same result as classic Blumlein - but with the added advantage that you can "steer" the pattern.

As MS the two figure-8s need not be identical.

Problem solved. heh
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
Tomic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
i dont see any reason why the mics should be identical in a MS
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
jproc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
would two cardioids, set up basically the same as a blumlein pair (ie. capsules close together at 90degree left/right) just be called a coincident pair then?

I understand the difference in cancellation patterns now, but before I had any figure-8 ribbon mics, i did this alot with good results... (and still do sometimes)
just not sure of the accepted terminology...
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
jproc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomic ➡️
i dont see any reason why the mics should be identical in a MS
They dont... i dont even use the same TYPE of mic often... i use a cardioid condensor for my Mid mic, and a figure-8 ribbon for my sides with nice results...
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Mike Brown's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproc ➡️
would two cardioids, set up basically the same as a blumlein pair (ie. capsules close together at 90degree left/right) just be called a coincident pair then?

I understand the difference in cancellation patterns now, but before I had any figure-8 ribbon mics, i did this alot with good results... (and still do sometimes)
just not sure of the accepted terminology...
Yes. A Coincident pair or X/Y is a common name for this.
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Corran's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A condenser mic and a ribbon mic in Blumlein seems like a bad idea. Maybe if they were both condensers or both ribbons, but the wildly different frequency responses as well as differences in gain requirements would probably make for a strange sound.

M-S would probably be a lot better with the different mics. I've used a ribbon as a S mic on several occasions and I like it. On the other hand you could use the ribbon as the M mic and see what happens.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Here for the gear
Absolute dead-thread dredge, apologies, but thought it better than starting a new similar thread.

In the thirteen years since the original post, has anyone experimented (either out of necessity or intrigue) with Blumlein arrangement using two different types of ribbon?

I'll be trying this myself using my two different ribbons (the only two I have) and wonder if anyone has pointers for doing so.

The recordings will form part of of a multitracked production, rather than a standalone stereo recording.

cheers,
Thomas
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasStoneMusic ➡️
Absolute dead-thread dredge, apologies, but thought it better than starting a new similar thread.

In the thirteen years since the original post, has anyone experimented (either out of necessity or intrigue) with Blumlein arrangement using two different types of ribbon?

I'll be trying this myself using my two different ribbons (the only two I have) and wonder if anyone has pointers for doing so.

The recordings will form part of of a multitracked production, rather than a standalone stereo recording.

cheers,
Thomas
No, but as mentioned above, with two different mics you should always set them up in MS and not 45 deg left and right.
With 2 different mics, an MS setup will give symmetric pickup to the Left and Right whereas a 45 deg left and right setup would give a different mic pickup/sound of Left vs Right.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie ➡️
No, but as mentioned above, with two different mics you should always set them up in MS and not 45 deg left and right.
With 2 different mics, an MS setup will give symmetric pickup to the Left and Right whereas a 45 deg left and right setup would give a different mic pickup/sound of Left vs Right.
Right, especially as asymmetric ribbons tend to have a dull side and a bright side….I don’t think that bodes well for an accurate Blumlein stereo picture (assuming accuracy rather than ‘interesting’ is what you’re after ?)

I imagine using 2 dissimilar ribbons like this would be a bit like using a Schoeps MK4 and a Shure SM57 in ORTF….you’ll get stereo, but….
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
B88
Here for the gear
 
Your answer was given in this post.
two different mics in a blumlein pattern?

You can do Blumlein as MS, and in that arrangement you can use two different figure 8's. Not to be confused with the idea MS and Blumlein are the same as they are not.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 6184 views: 2003695
Avatar for Drumsound
Drumsound 1 day ago
replies: 1278 views: 310185
Avatar for excelcruz
excelcruz 2 days ago
replies: 58 views: 46895
Avatar for Drumsound
Drumsound 9th July 2017
replies: 184 views: 21276
Avatar for gegarrenton
gegarrenton 31 minutes ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump