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What is your favorite binaural recording?
Old 3rd June 2010 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Nut
 
GuySonic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
How and Why DSM got its name

The back story on how the DSM moniker came to being actually started with film writer/producer/director Brett Leonard (Virtuosity, and produced/directed/written other great films) was just out of film school at UC Santa Cruz before doing his first major release film. Met him in 1987 as one of the interesting customers frequenting a local Santa Cruz Hi-End audiophile gear shop. He was carrying around a brief case containing a 'holophonic' sound cassette tape saying he was very interested in this type of sound for film productions.

So I invited him up to the house to audition some of my ambient/music auditioning of personally made recordings using a special mic I recently developed. He listened on both headphones/custom stereo monitors. Played some orchestral music recordings, but what he really responded to were pure ambient recordings of ‘mad dog’ merrymakers at a friend’s (a.k.a “Dr. Dirt”) 800 acre family ranch mostly done in and around a small lake. After listening for a short time, he stated these recordings where exactly what he was hoping to hear, and that these recordings contained true ‘dimensionality.’

So needing a name for mics/method not binaural, I instantly on-the-spot started calling them “DSM” for Dimensional Stereo Microphones, and many years later changed the ‘S’ to mean ‘Stereo-Surround’ which is more accurate to the type of sound recorded. However, lately considering renaming as “DSSM” partly because the letters DSM, even though now a trademark of mine, are more recently being used for naming a hundred other things (some really nasty!).

Brett had written a movie “horror” script for his first film, had sources for funding lined up. So along with his then ‘Girl Friend Friday’ over dinner suggested I do some/all of the sound using my mics. I flatly told him I had just developed this mic, and still missing solid experience and accessories for doing a major film project. Brett, lacking major file production experiences himself, and also being most insecure about trying something unproven, immediately ended the sound recording part of the discussion.

While I’ve had several more occasions to see him before/after film release social events, we’ve never talked sound again. And as far as I know, has not used any kind of dimensional sound recording tactics while shooting his films, and has gotten out of the director/producing roles (too many film ownership/profit disappointments) to solely write film scripts, which he sells for better profit than made on most/all his directed films.

So to make a long story short, this is how DSM, and now maybe DSSM came to be named.

Later over the years I did indeed get the dimensional recording experience and develop the necessary support gear to make DSM/DSSM mics a candidate for film sound production. Obviously, the mics have found good use with sound designers for postproduction sound resources, but a few films have actually placed my HRTF LiteGUY baffle on an extended motorized boom for directly recording scenes not viable with post sound methods.

Also, HRTF impulse studies have been mentioned in this thread as a viable test of my 'DSSM method' vs. now considered standard commercially available binaural dummy head mics.

All I can tell you is a few customers in the distant past have mentioned the DSM mics were being used worn on real people extensively in university research laboratory studies striving to directly model the HRTF response for developing computer software to generate HRTF audio in some manner.

The resulting benefits or success of DSSM mics being used for modeling HRTF is unknown to me. I do consider my special pickups to be exceptionally wide <5-to-beyond- 40,000 cycle bandwidth flat uncolored response true omni pressure types, so I can think of no better mic for this research with Earthworks 30/40K omni models using the same capsules modified in different manner being a second choice I'd suggest using. So memory doesn't serve me to know who, when, and where this HRTF research was being done.

FWIW I have low opinion of computer software driven HRTF simulations for complex sounds, and considering this still a real limitation, simulation software is of no personally interest. As far as I know, real world live sound is too complex for current computers using software to work well except for the most simple of sounds, and I consider synthetic HRTF still not viable for broad music/film commercial purposes. But maybe that’s just me, and who knows what the future holds.

Recent computers/software do seem to be getting a lot better at complex dynamic fluid processing tasks and I feel will eventually have enough power to accurately process real world (musically) complex sounds replicating true HRTF with widest frequency bandwidth from multiple or every/any direction.

I just do not think we are even close to having the computer gear to do this and should still consider using head mics as most practical/reliable way for generating HRTF audio.
Old 3rd June 2010 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
rick at Lincoln Cathedral

I think I may owe an apology here, I have in the past, stated that the Rick wakemanrecording was, how can I put it,,,,, not to my liking.
I have just listened again to the DTS piece, through my very lowly AKG headphones, and it has really come to life. This is what I would love to achieve in my upcoming recording of the fine pipe organ in Durham cathedral in october, as well as to use I hope a pair of Rhode NT5's with omni capsules. As a side note, a friend who was in the forces, and played trumpet, has just bought 7 military trumpets/trombones, now that would sound incredible in a vast gothic cathedralheh
Peter

Last edited by Peter Allison; 3rd June 2010 at 07:38 PM.. Reason: grammar
Old 3rd June 2010 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuySonic ➡️
The back story on how the DSM moniker came to being actually started with film writer/producer/director Brett Leonard (Virtuosity, and produced/directed/written other great films) was just out of film school at UC Santa Cruz before doing his first major release film. Met him in 1987 ...

....Also, HRTF impulse studies have been mentioned in this thread. All I can tell you is customers have in the past reported the DSM mics worn on real people and used extensively in university laboratory studies striving to directly model the HRTF response for developing computer software. The result intended to replicate HRTF. I have no way to know who, when, and where the results of this work might be found as computer simulations I disregard. These are of no personally interest as considered being too limited to be generally viable for broad commercial purposes. But that’s just me.



Guy: That's actually a pretty cool story; I like knowing how things 'came to be' as it were, so knowing the historical context of a product's development is always nice. Thanks for sharing the lineage of the system. It's funny how things just sort of 'happen' when you are thinking about one thing and it leads to another.

In a way, what you describe reminds me of how a colleage and I (a Bio-mechanical engineer) came to develop a sort of "surrogate human being" equipped with a binaural head; it was to be used in the world of test and measurement, and was even granted a British patent (GBR 2396475). Though it solved the human interface / percpetual challenges of attempting to make the boundary conditions accurate, and thus, the accurate measurements of transmitted vibration and radiated noise in-situ, the company saw no real chance of revenue from the invention. Still, the process and genesis of being a part of something that 'wasn't' before was pretty thrilling, and must be for you as well.

As far as the last paragraph (with regard to the HRTF), I think I know what you are trying to say, but I am afraid the manner in which it is written is a bit confusing. Do you think you could re-write that paragraph, perhaps as a new post? I want to fully understand what you are saying. Thanks again for the post... Mark
Old 4th June 2010 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Nut
 
GuySonic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Done! Revised HRTF impulse research using DSM in original post.
Old 20th July 2010 | Show parent
  #65
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Binaural + Stereo = Cowboy Junkies Re-Mix

OK, so some time ago I posted excerpts and at one point, a link to the Cowboy Junkies show that I recorded in binaural format (just the signals from my KU-100 mannequin head). Well, I decided to go back, re-EQ things a bit, and mix in some quasi-ORTF stereo that I acquired at roughly the same spot as the mannequin head; the pair used for the quasi-ORTF were AT37's.

Again, I can't call this updated version 'truly' binaural because it is a hybrid mix of that and the conventional stereo, but I like the aesthetics of this mix. Thus, I deemed this version to be "Engineered For Headphone Use" because it is mostly binaural, so headphones are the sort of 'go to' transducer for this.

You can find it here in FLAC as well as MP3 VBR and ogg (you can stream it or download it in your format of choice, though I would suggest FLAC if you can):

Cowboy Junkies Live at The Ark on 2009-10-05 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Hope you all like it...
Old 11th August 2010 | Show parent
  #66
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Roots Music / Joni Mitchell Covers - Live Show

OK, So I decided to post this here (not sure what other forum would have been more logical) in the hope that maybe those interested will check it out and (hopefully) enjoy it.

As far as recording goes, this was done with 1 Neumann type KU-100 mannequin microphone (only), placed on-stage, about 2m in front of the performers (who were in a row about 15 feet or so in length. There are things I like, and things I don't like about this, but this was a non-revenue gig that I did to help showcase the venue (which is a non-profit).

Performers include: Annie and Rod Capps, Kitty Donohoe, Mark Iannace, Jill Jack, and Jan Krist. The first set is originals while the second is all Joni Mitchell covers.

One 'bonus' in this recording is that on the evening that I recorded this show, some powerful storms moved through, and on various tracks you can hear the rain hitting the roof in sheets - so don't think it's a sudden burst of random noise...

Second bonus... I posted the show in FLAC format, and then the site derived the lossy formats (vrb mp3 and ogg vorbis), but if you want the real deal, you can download the FLAC and aholly reconstruct to .wav, or you can use the FLAC files to go to other formats; FLAC is 100% lossless and also supports metadata (tags).

Anyway...here is the link to the show: Capps, Donohoe, Iannace, Jack, and Krist: Live at the Trinity House Theater, 2010-06-04 : Annie and Rod Capps, Kitty Donohoe, Mark Iannace, Jill Jack, Jan Krist : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Mark

Last edited by Mark A. Jay; 11th August 2010 at 03:14 AM.. Reason: added one thought
Old 12th August 2010 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Saying Hi

Hi Mark and list members,
Mark thanks for the contact.

Just 'touching base' briefly, been busy in the studio with mastering and other personal affairs.

RE binaural broadcasts on UK National Radio - I'm currently working with a production company in Manchester and am making some binaural programme idea submissions in the latest round of the BBC Radio 3 programme commissioning. Things move painfully slowly, but I'll let you all know how things go.

Now back to the mastering!

dallas.
Old 17th August 2010 | Show parent
  #68
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Understood

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas simpson ➡️
Hi Mark and list members,
Mark thanks for the contact.

Just 'touching base' briefly, been busy in the studio with mastering and other personal affairs.

RE binaural broadcasts on UK National Radio - I'm currently working with a production company in Manchester and am making some binaural programme idea submissions in the latest round of the BBC Radio 3 programme commissioning. Things move painfully slowly, but I'll let you all know how things go.

Now back to the mastering!

dallas.
Dallas:

I'm working a few angles with some radio stations as well. Definitely a tough sell, but I think my chances for landing content will be with those stations that have HD Radio broadcasts / streams; some of them seem to be looking for content exclusive to their HD Radio feeds, and it seems like a natural home for binaural / spatial audio as the stream is a 1411 kbps (CD quality) and thus preserves the fidelity.

Thanks for taking me up on my offer to 'connect' here on GS. Incidentally, I also created two groups here - one is the Detroit GS group and the other is Binaural Audio.

Mark
Old 18th August 2010 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Revisiting the request for lossless

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray ➡️
Mark, do you have any lossless files for the CJ concert, or was that a commercial thing??

I mean.. is it available anywhere in lossless?
Teddy - I was perusing this thread and came across your question. Although I had responded previously and offered them in 320 kbps from my FTP site, the files have now been posted to the internet archive.

One thing to note - when I first offered examples of the CJ track / made them available, that was a different version than what has since been posted to the internet archive. The main differences between the early version and the archive-posted version is that I altered the EQ a bit, and, I mixed in a very small amount of quasi-ORTF stereo with the binaural signal. Mind you, the conventional stereo portion is down considerably with respect to the binaural portion, but it makes for a very slight difference that I find appealing.

Anyway, you can get to that version at the following link (where it can be streamed or downloaded in FLAC as well as vbr mp3 and ogg vorbis (but since you mentioned lossless in your request, I'm assuming you'd want the FLAC version)): Cowboy Junkies Live at The Ark on 2009-10-05 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

I don't feel comfortable referring to the mix as binaural (on the archive site there's a section explaining that - see the "notes" section) due to the presence of non-HRTF signals, but let's just say it approximates a true HRTF-based recording.

Let me know what you think.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas simpson ➡️
Hi, just found this thread - great to see some interst in binaural. I've been a binaural sound artist and professional binaural recordist for many years. Here is an outdoor recording of solo guitar by a stream from an experimental album I recorded a few years ago:

Live At Ambergate, Gordon Giltrap, LCVP156CD, track 4 'At Giltrap's Bar' (extract).

This thread may be old, but I just wanted to say that I've heard quite a few binaural recordings where something is moved around the head, but this particular binaural recording might be the first one I've heard where the guitar actually sounds like it's in front of me when it's supposed to be, along with proper distance. Although there's one odd place at about the 0:22 mark where for a fraction of a second it sounds like the guitar jumps from behind me to in front of me, then goes back.

I've heard it's common in binaural recordings to have a compressed or flat sound when a sound is in front of the listener, or sometimes it sounds like it's behind you instead of in front. That's what I experience with most binaural recordings. So this Giltrap recording is one I'm going to keep around on my drive for reference.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hi Elhardt,

You actually heard correctly. My 'choreographic sound art' style of environmental binaural recording is to incorporate spatial motion within binaural recordings (spatial choreography). The Giltrap Ambergate recording follows this style throughout and various spatial motions are created throughout Gordon's playing. The album offers a vision of a walk through the tranquil woodland and at various points we encounter Gordon playing guitar, with subtle or more vigorous spatial motions presented during the performance, according to my intuitive reaction to the music and the atmosphere of the space at the time of recording.

So yes, the guitar does appear to momentarily rush behind the listener. This is exactly how it was intended to sound. By recording outdoors in near anechoic conditions ground and wall reflections (commonly found in studios) are almost completely eliminated and it is possible to convey more accurately spatial cues to the listener.

The motion I use is partly for artistic interest, but also to compensate for HRTF differences between myself, as the binaural recordist, and the HRTF of the listener, which may be different. It is these differences and local surface reflections which give rise to front/rear ambiguities, while moving sounds seem to offer additional differential spatial cues that minimise localisation errors due to HRTF differences between the recordist and listener, and hopefully offer a more enjoyable and uniquely binaural spatial experience.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas simpson ➡️
Hi Elhardt,
So yes, the guitar does appear to momentarily rush behind the listener. This is exactly how it was intended to sound.
Yes, the guitar moves to the left and then around behind the listener, but I think maybe you didn't understand what I meant by the sound jumping to the front for a fraction of a second and then back again. The guitar stays behind the listener for a little while, but then for a fraction of a second around the 22 second point, it suddenly sounds like it's coming from the front, but then about a half second later it's to the back again where it should be. I take that to mean that a sound coming from the front or from behind are similar enough that there must have been something in that tiny portion of sound that confused my ears/brain for a fraction of a second. But seeing how your recording works better for frontal sounds than anything else I've heard, I'm guessing we must have similarly shaped ears, while that Neumann Binaural Head and several binaural software packages I've heard don't quite match up with my ears.
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Ah, yes I see what you mean. There appears to be a 'point of ambiguity' as the guitar passes around behind. This does happen occasionally. I've listened to the original wav of the track and its OK for me, but I think I can detect the point you mention, maybe its a tree trunk reflection or something. Binaural spatiality is a fragile affair, but impressive when it works. I'm sending you a link to the complete track just in case the Gearslutz wav has a corruption. You may try listening on different earphones / headphones to see if there is any resolution of the spatial artefact.
best wishes,
dallas
Old 12th June 2013 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas simpson ➡️
Ah, yes I see what you mean. There appears to be a 'point of ambiguity' as the guitar passes around behind. This does happen occasionally. I've listened to the original wav of the track and its OK for me, but I think I can detect the point you mention, maybe its a tree trunk reflection or something. Binaural spatiality is a fragile affair, but impressive when it works. I'm sending you a link to the complete track just in case the Gearslutz wav has a corruption. You may try listening on different earphones / headphones to see if there is any resolution of the spatial artefact.
best wishes,
dallas
This might be a little off-topic, but I recently posted this link in a Group forum that I moderate on a 'social networking site'. While this is a sort of Reader's Digest version of the paper, it does seem somewhat relevant to the issues of localization and estimation of distance.

I say it's relevant because when we listen to binaural recordings, we are absent the visual cues that allow the auditory and visual cortexes to work together; it makes me wonder if there's a relationship between the localization issues (for blind people) cited here, and the absence of synchronous visual information when listening to an audio-only binaural playback.

The paper deals with sigthed and non-sighted individuals and how their ability to gage distance seems to vary. Mind you, the paper suggests that only free-field conditions were assessed (and I have contacted the authors about access to a more 'meaty' version of the paper, which should soon be available), and it certainly raises many questions, but it's a quick and interesting read.

Here is the link:

Acoustical Society of America - 165th Lay Language Papers

As an experiment, try queuing-up this video and first listening with eyes closed, then open. To be faior there is some cognitive dissonance that occurs when the camera angles switch, but overall, I think it's an interesting sensory experiment.

Akhian Udeekdian performed by Sumkali - ?? - YouTube

One thing that I want to point out about this is the fact that some of the audio was going through the PA (right in front of the mannequin head), but there is also a naturally-radiated airborne component as well (from each instrument, vocalist, etc). To wit, watch very, very closely right around the 3:50 mark. The singer at right will momentarily pull away from the mic, and tilt his head upward and back as he sings. When he does this, less of his voice is going through the PA, and more of the naturally radiated sound reaches the right ear of the binaural mannequin mic (which was flown from the lighting truss). Note that when he pulls back, whther you are watching the video or just listening, his voice moves more to the right, but when he's closer to the mic, he seems to be at center - and this makes sense as again, the PA portion becomes dominant.

It's interesting but also understandable how localization is effected by phase (because phase and time are the same), and I wish I had more acoustic-only video material to share as a sort of counterpoint.

Anyway...I hope you enjoy the links.

Mark
Old 14th June 2013 | Show parent
  #75
Gear Nut
 
GuySonic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Recently added stereo-surround HRTF baffled recordings

As most of you who have followed or are doing this type of spatial type recording are aware there are numerous factors affecting the perception of these types of recordings. Choice of dummy head materials, with/without pinea, ambient room/environment acoustic, and playback mechanisms such as type of headphone or speaker alighments all make big differences in what most people will hear upon playback.

I have a preliminary description of my favorite mic techniques and how this compares with traditional in-or-near-ear-binaural methhods on page: http://www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm

With time and hundreds of archived spatial sound recordings to transfer to HD a few months ago I uploaded many of these 'quasi-binaural' performance/session recordings to my site's page at: Sonic Studios MP3 Page 2 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Session and Live Performance Recordings

Suggest giving these recordings a listen on your favorite playback systems comparing the spatial perception of these to conventional binaural recordings. Share your impressions and the link so others may experience really good sounding spatial recordings.
Old 26th August 2013 | Show parent
  #76
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Binaural Soundcloud group

If interested. I have a Moderated Binaural Soundcloud group with 48 tracks ranging from field recordings to music mixed with Binaural software or live recorded with the head gear. Currently there are 77 subscribers and 9 contributors.

https://soundcloud.com/groups/3d-audio-binaural
Old 26th August 2013 | Show parent
  #77
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Binaural Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeofBliss ➡️
If interested. I have a Moderated Binaural Soundcloud group with 48 tracks ranging from field recordings to music mixed with Binaural software or live recorded with the head gear. Currently there are 77 subscribers and 9 contributors.

https://soundcloud.com/groups/3d-audio-binaural
DEFINITELY interested. I just joined soundcloud some time ago (under the name of immersifi) and I know that I joined "a" binaural Group just a little while ago...just not sure if it's the one that you moderate or not. To date I have posted but a few things there, but I will soon be posting some a cappella choir recordings that I made this Spring in some churches in Rome, Italy...that should happen in a few days.

Anyway, I'll check out the link that you sent. Sinc turnabout's fair play, you might also like the Perceptual Audio Group on linkedin - I moderate that forum, and its primary focus is on binaural, though it also covers a broad range of signal processing topics.

Thanks a ton for this post, and like I said, I'll check this out tonight.

Mark
Old 13th May 2014 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Cowboy Junkies Live at The Ark Lossless and Binaural

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy Ray ➡️
Mark, do you have any lossless files for the CJ concert, or was that a commercial thing??

I mean.. is it available anywhere in lossless?
I can't remember if I updated this or other threads on the CJ recordings or not...but I'll do it here and now:

if you want the Cowboy Junkies show (lossless), it's been up on archive.org for some time now. You can download it in flac format, and then go from there:

https://archive.org/details/cj2009-10-05.ku100_at37

Mark

Last edited by Mark A. Jay; 13th May 2014 at 08:04 PM.. Reason: clarification
Old 14th February 2015 | Show parent
  #79
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark A. Jay ➡️
OK, so I stole that line (from one of my all-time favorites, Frank Zappa), but here's a short excerpt of a jazz performance. Have a listen and let me know what you think. It's binaural (made using a Neumann type KU-100 mannequin head)...so yes, headphones will best convey the spatial aspects of the performance and the venue.

One other thing: The KU-100 was positioned facing the stage, just about dead-center, and roughly 3 feet above the patrons who were seated beneath it (they were unaware). If you listen very closely to this track, right around 1:36 you can hear the server inquiring with the guests as to their drink order, and right about at the 1:40 mark you can hear the patron, who elevates his voice to be heard by the server, placing his order for a "Miller Lite".

Mark
That was incredible! I am new to this format of music and I am shocked this is not used more commonly, do you have any ideas where I could find more music recorded in this format? I really appreciate you posting that - thanks!
Old 14th February 2015 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Addict
 
Mark A. Jay's Avatar
Thanks - 'glad that you liked it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James__ ➡️
That was incredible! I am new to this format of music and I am shocked this is not used more commonly, do you have any ideas where I could find more music recorded in this format? I really appreciate you posting that - thanks!
If you peruse my posts, you will find some links...you could also look on headfi dot org for posts by immersifi...or...you could just go to the link shown below and access a bunch of my stuff for download - please do not stream it...the player on the site transcodes everything down to 128 kbps mp3 format. However, if you download the track, then the fidelity is preserved.

Some of these are fully binaural, some are a blend of binaural and two-microphone stereo, and some are mostly stereo. Some are available in .flac, some in 320 kbps mp3, and some are available in both formats:

https://soundcloud.com/immersifi

Some are in playlists / collections, some are stand-alone tracks. There's Jazz, a cappella, and a variety of other things (including some natural sounds).

Again...please download them...if you don't like them, you can always delete them, but the player on that site destroys the top end due to ther 128 kbps mp3 stuff...

Oh, and by the way, since you liked the jazz track excerpt...look for the tracks I posted that were performed by Philippe LeJeune. Pretty cool tracks, recorded in that same venue...and it's the same cat and band. EDIT: No, that's my memory failing me...the excerpt that you heard was not Philippe LeJeune, however, the same bass player was featured (Don Mayberry, who passed away in 2011). Don and another (on the skins) sat-in with Philippe (who was on the piano) when I first recorded him at Baker's Keyboard Lounge back in 2009, the same year that generated the excerpt that you auditioned). End edit.

Hope you like 'em...

Mark
PS: If you look on headfi dot org, look for the binaural threads.

Last edited by Mark A. Jay; 15th February 2015 at 03:40 AM.. Reason: Recalled some particulars...
Old 2nd July 2016
  #81
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
https://menteur.bandcamp.com
all of their stuff is binaural and its all freeeeeee
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