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The fat lady has sung...
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't mean to sound crass but.. There's always mcdonalds.

There's no shame in taking whatever job you can find so you don't go up in flames. Take a humility pill and earn some money however you can, and use your free time to try and get back to what you love doing.

No one is going to hire a guy who can't afford to drive to the gig with decent clothes on. You just gotta keep the income rolling.

You'll make it if you just work hard, and unfortunately the hard work isn't always the work we love.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
James Meeker's Avatar
Honestly, I think you can probably continue making a living at recording if you adjust your business model. Right now you are drawing from a very tiny, close-knit client base. Maybe it's time to branch out into rock, pop and rap music in addition to what you were doing?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Nut
 
kstrauss's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
we have some savings available for a move. I would prefer the Midwest or Southeast part of the country, but I'm open to other possibilities.
Do you have any experience with analog tape?

Audio_Digitization_Engineer
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
<< I don't mean to sound crass but.. There's always mcdonalds. >>

Did you ever think that working there for even 50 or 60 hrs a week would probably not even pay his rent and living expenses expenses. Not too mention the blow to his morale. Get real man.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstrauss ➑️
Do you have any experience with analog tape?

Audio_Digitization_Engineer
Some, a long time ago, but after reading the job description I don't think it's enough. I am a quick study, however. Do you know Sylvia McNair at the School of Music? She's a friend of mine.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➑️
Eh.... not always. But you do need to demonstrate you can offer a big improvement over what someone's getting now.

I came up with a little cryptic motto: "It's a dog eat dog world. You just gotta learn to like the taste of dog."
Made my day!!!

Thanks Joel and blessings to all.

Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
I am a quick study, however.

Being a quick study is a good thing! Believing in yourself is another. Adversity is an opportunity to get better. Failure is not an option.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
Corran's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
As has been stated - sorry to see this thread (though I was initially confused by the title).

I would reiterate James Meeker about branching out. I've started doing more rock and country recordings lately (and trying to get into rap vocals, which seems to be a real money-market around these parts). I don't like some of it but I do like getting a check. I personally am happy getting any audio-related work anywhere, even really small-budget stuff. I do in-home IT calls for like $20/hr and it helps. Every little bit helps. Always be on the lookout for new clients - I found one once in Office Max while doing some shopping.

And any advertising you can do free is good - flyers, craigslist, etc.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Post ads in all the local music stores with one day rates or for a demo special.

Visit all the local clubs and take plenty of business cards.

Essentially you need to get out there and shake the trees a bit and maybe help
some deserving musicians in the process.

You can also run recording classes either individually or through the local
community colleges and high schools.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT ➑️
Post ads in all the local music stores with one day rates or for a demo special.

Visit all the local clubs and take plenty of business cards.

Essentially you need to get out there and shake the trees a bit and maybe help
some deserving musicians in the process.

You can also run recording classes either individually or through the local
community colleges and high schools.
Honestly we have tried all of these and it does not work. The people you find in these places are usually not the ones that can afford your services or they do everything themselves. If you go to your local GC and look at the ad boards you will find multiple ads for people providing recording/ mixing services at rates that would not keep the lights on in most studios or keep your family fed. It is ok if you have a day job and are doing recording or mastering or post production at night and on weekends but $15.00 per hour or less for recording time is simply, in this economy, not going to pay a living wage for anyone unless you are doing it 60 hours per week. If you visit clubs and hand out business cards you get a lot of people calling you asking if you can do their work on spec and when they get famous they will pay you or they want you do come to the club do the recording for $50.00 and do the mix down for free and then make them 100 CDs and when the sell them they will pay you. Been there done that. You need to attract a client base that has money and can pay you. Bar bands don't have money, music store hangers on don't have money and what you wind up with is making a lot of people happy by doing things for almost free but getting very little in return and not enough to support a family.

A little off topic. I use to think that the only ones that were making money in this economy were the places like GC, Sweetwater and Sam Ash but I was at my local GC store and I was one of three customers in the whole store at 11 am on a Saturday morning. Now it was snowing outside and they are having a BIG sale tonight but after talking to a couple of the salespeople I get the idea that they are hurting just like everyone else. How many Guitars can you sell??? How many drum sets??? how many USB audio interfaces??? I think the market is tapped out and oversold and people are holding on to their money because they are afraid that their job will be eliminated or their overtime hours cut back. It is NOT a pretty picture out there in the "real world" right now.

YMMV
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Guru
 
FFTT's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm sure there are many ways for things not to work, but done properly it might make the difference between staying open and folding.

Recording technology lessons might help to fill in the gap, dunno.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
johnwayne's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry about your situation.

A healthy dose of Zig Ziglar and Dave Ramsey keeps me focused.

You might want to check this out.

Webinar Jan 27th or 28th: How to Attract Customers at Low Cost in This Tough Economy
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
<<< Post ads in all the local music stores with one day rates or for a demo special.
Visit all the local clubs and take plenty of business cards. >>

This may have worked before, but now it has proven to be a waste of time and money (cover charges, drinks, gas money). Most local musicians have ways to do basic recording for free, and simply cannot afford a real studio/engineer.

It get frustrating talking to all these people, "networking", and then never getting any work.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
sonare's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
After reading the IU job description you should DEFINITELY apply. Lots of tape background really has nothing to do with putting a reel of 456 into the little oven for the specified time and then spooling it up on a deck, hitting play, and cleaning the heads and guides when the gunk builds up. Having the ears and taste to know what first aid to apply after it is a digital file is the important skill-- one that you have.

Before you leave Orlando and all the years of contacts you have formed there-- Tom's post should be your blueprint. The main point is COMMUNICATION. Personally visit every person you have ever recorded in the area and talk with them-- see if they have a need that you can meet, and then find a price they can pay. It will be much lower than the last time you worked for them, but at least it will be cash fflow. More importantly it will give you some hope.

In the future you can raise your rates with them as the economy improves-- and it WILL improve with time. The seeds you plant now will be your work in the future. If you have not been pro-active with low-key selling then now is the time to learn. Very little of my work is a result of people calling me-- I must call them. Use your musical experiences to build a prospective client list. Talk to every church music director with over 300 in the congregation. NOW is the time to make next fall's Christmas CD, which will earn them thousands of $$ to offset their budget cuts.

Compiling an email list is also good-- cheaper than the mail, but the key is followup. I consider my business to be 75% sales (which I do not enjoy) but I DO enjoy calling and chewing the fat with musical colleagues. That is the conduit for business, and it is how much business comes about.

PM me and I will give you some names in the area to check with. Hang in there!

Rich
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #75
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mike, I would take Rich up on his offer!

Rich, that was very kind of you my man.

Hang in there because your Remotester friends care about your situation!
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopamine ➑️
<< I don't mean to sound crass but.. There's always mcdonalds. >>

Did you ever think that working there for even 50 or 60 hrs a week would probably not even pay his rent and living expenses expenses. Not too mention the blow to his morale. Get real man.
My studio building is being renovated, so I haven't been able to work there since november. Still they charge rent.
I saw this coming, and I'm working 35-40 hours a week (any work I can grab) managing a restaurant.
It's totally different from mixing, but not so much different from running a studio. There's a product, there's the difference between mediocre and perfect, and there's customers to deal with, and make happy of course.
It pays lousy but keeps the ball rolling, is rewarding in its own right (job accomplished) and is temporary. Better than sitting and waiting.
Waiting is the worst.
I know McDonalds is something different than an actual restaurant, but you might have to do something like that first before moving up to a better "daytime" job. Experience and skill counts, in that industry too, at least, here it does.

Good luck to the OP. There's only one way forward. Do what you have to do, and try to enjoy that. Hold on to a skeleton kit of quality gear so you can accept a job at any moment, keep some irreplacable pieces, and sell the rest. Also keep working, if needed work someplace where they don't have budgets for professional recording, and charge nothing.
But do NOT work for free if the customer can pay, but isn't willing to do so. That is no good, and never will be.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Moderator
 
Reptil's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker ➑️
Honestly, I think you can probably continue making a living at recording if you adjust your business model. Right now you are drawing from a very tiny, close-knit client base. Maybe it's time to branch out into rock, pop and rap music in addition to what you were doing?
+1 good advice
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up Tell the fat lady to be quiet

Mike,

There is something out there for you. Believe it and continue to make yourself present to the opportunities out there (They are there. Keep looking).
I know it's hard to believe when you don't see the destination right in front of you. I'm learning that going through life is like walking with a lantern in the night. You only see a few feet in front of you. You don't stop walking because you know your destination is there. You eventually see and reach your destination! Breathe, relax then get energized and make your best attempt at enjoying and appreciating the journey. Never give up. You can do it! heh

Best Wishes,

Raul
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #79
PDC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
That's the problem out there, folks. There are no "day jobs" to be had. My wife went to a job fair today in Orlando and she couldn't even get near the place because there were already 10,000(!)people in line around the building! Skills don't matter. There just isn't any work, at least not where I'm at. Unemployment is running above 10% here.
Unemployment is actually about 11% everywhere. The government changed how they figure it back in 2001, to exclude those that are unemployed and not wanting to work for various reasons. So now it is about half as much on paper.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #80
PDC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul_d'Ablaing ➑️
Mike,

There is something out there for you. Believe it and continue to make yourself present to the opportunities out there (They are there. Keep looking).
I know it's hard to believe when you don't see the destination right in front of you. I'm learning that going through life is like walking with a lantern in the night. You only see a few feet in front of you. You don't stop walking because you know your destination is there. You eventually see and reach your destination! Breathe, relax then get energized and make your best attempt at enjoying and appreciating the journey. Never give up. You can do it! heh

Best Wishes,

Raul
I have been in the same type of market as the OP. Sometimes there is absolutely no work. Especially when civil, education, advertising and corporate training budgets, funding, grants, endowments, etc are cut. In Tulsa, the philharmonic orchestra has been bankrupt three time already. The ballet atleast once. The local theater co is in the crapper. The performing arts center is a union gig and it is locked up tight with super tenured help. The club scene is non-existant. The local SR companies gave up on music for the most part and downscaled to corporate events, which have dwindled. There is no studio work. TV work is piss poor...under $10 an hour. Studios with huge budgets have come, but they all go. The companies that need studios have brought the work in house and pay low hourly wages. The schools don't do recording or need it like they used to. Some markets have nothing. It is not a matter of hanging in there. It is not a matter of opportunities. When the majority of the people are not spending money on anything non-essential...well, you DO know that WE are non-essential...right?
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDC ➑️
I have been in the same type of market as the OP. Sometimes there is absolutely no work. Especially when civil, education, advertising and corporate training budgets, funding, grants, endowments, etc are cut. In Tulsa, the philharmonic orchestra has been bankrupt three time already. The ballet atleast once. The local theater co is in the crapper. The performing arts center is a union gig and it is locked up tight with super tenured help. The club scene is non-existant. The local SR companies gave up on music for the most part and downscaled to corporate events, which have dwindled. There is no studio work. TV work is piss poor...under $10 an hour. Studios with huge budgets have come, but they all go. The companies that need studios have brought the work in house and pay low hourly wages. The schools don't do recording or need it like they used to. Some markets have nothing. It is not a matter of hanging in there. It is not a matter of opportunities. When the majority of the people are not spending money on anything non-essential...well, you DO know that WE are non-essential...right?
I hear you. Work is not readily present but despairing does nothing except suck out your energy. I'm offering encouragement. I too am looking for other sources of income as I am not getting as many entertainment gigs as I have been getting in months past. I just went out and bought a couple of ukulele books so I can see how a uke method progresses to start offering beginning ukelele instruction (I already teach general music part time in a school and have been in a uke group in the past). In addition to this, I went out to a high school that just opened up to see if they had any need for a music technology instructor. They didn't plan to have a course in music technology but it was mentioned that they received a grant for after school programs and may be offering more electives. We exchanged contact info. I'm also starting to promote my kids music project (Welcome to Ooga Fun Ooga!!!!). I'm not sure if I will get any uke clients, sell many mp3's or get a position in that high school but I'm trying to keep moving to see if anything pans out. I'm going to keep looking for other things and try to create more opportunity as well. My belief is that opportunity is looking for me while I am also looking for it. I believe I will get more work eventually. I hope for the OP as well. Hopefully I'm right!

Best Regards,

Raul
Old 25th January 2009
  #82
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
 
6 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
This town is a wasteland, culturally speaking, and I would love to get out.
Best of luck. You are very right about Orlando. Pack up the van and get out!

If one is going to be unemployed in florida, might as well be unemployed closer to a beach! thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

I'm not sure what your debt situation is. But, the flip side: there are a whole BUNCH of bands in otown, if you are mobile maybe there is oppty. Not saying you have to cart out the hole gig to record some teenagers, but one thing about bad times: the experienced guys who drop rates to match the basement dwellers ALWAYS win out. Some $$$ is better then no $$$. Slipper slope no doubt about it.

I've always told my old lady, if the bad times come I'll be out there laying sod with the best of them.

I have always thought Miami was a better 'musical' town but *shrug*. Best of luck and keep thinking positively.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Man, it just keeps on comin'. My oldest cat, Ippy (on the right), died on my bed last night from a rather sudden onset of feline lung cancer. My wife and I struggled with when to put him down, as each day he would rally, but the last few days he was in pain, despite the pain meds. He had his best day yesterday and so we thought we'd give it one more day and see what happens. About 2:30 last night I heard a thump and found him on the floor in the throws of death... that was incredibly hard to watch (sob...).

My sincerest heartfelt thanks to those of you that have responded with ideas, encouragement, and prayer over my current situation. I'm still a bit shell shocked by all that has taken place and will re-examine my options over the next few days. A special note of thanks to Hudson (Plush) and Rich (Sonare) for their long phone conversations with me over the last few months.
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Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Nut
 
kstrauss's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonare ➑️
After reading the IU job description you should DEFINITELY apply.
This is good advice, experience with legacy formats is only part of the job description. But it is inappropriate for me to say more since I am doing the hiring. One comment: in my 8 years at IU I have filled six open positions. In only one case did we had a good pool of qualified applicants. I'm not sure why this is...

PM me if you have any questions
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
There are ways to minimize bills and stay afloat. Sell your car, go with a lower per month lease plan. Refinance the homestead. Liquidate some of your lesser used assets. Every expense (as long as you're in the black) is a choice. When the money is tight, you make fewer choices. It's just the way it's got to be. Don't have money for rent, then move in with a friend or the parents. Takes care of some of the other bills that way too. Not always an option with leases, families and such. But from a certain perspective, all you need is food in your belly, and some limited shelter from the elements. Everything beyond that is a choice and/or a luxury. Are you using that microwave? sell it. Do you really need 8 guitars? sell some. There are ways to stay afloat.

I'm in a similar boat. And put some instruments on the market last august. They were not selling so I put other instruments out there. I've got some dental concerns right now, so I can't play them much anyway. Not much sold for months. But come December, I sold nearly $3K worth of horns. All in the matter of a couple of weeks. I've still got the original two I wanted to sell for sell. But I've got my bills covered and enough left over to hold me over a couple of months, or buy that HD camcorder I've been striving for. In the meantime I've been helping mom get rid of her old stuff too. Steps to the trailer that she had a deck put on. Her OLD computer, her OLD tv. It doesn't always sell the day of, but they do sell eventually.

Having worked in I.T. and having to move at least once a year to stay employed, the fewer things you have to move, the much easier it is to move. If you do move, I'd advise NOT moving on super bowl sunday. No help to be found anywhere. If only the dumpster was closer than the truck on that day, I'd be traveling a whole lot lighter myself.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
Man, it just keeps on comin'. My oldest cat, Ippy (on the right), died on my bed last night from a rather sudden onset of feline lung cancer. My wife and I struggled with when to put him down, as each day he would rally, but the last few days he was in pain, despite the pain meds. He had his best day yesterday and so we thought we'd give it one more day and see what happens. About 2:30 last night I heard a thump and found him on the floor in the throws of death... that was incredibly hard to watch (sob...).

My sincerest heartfelt thanks to those of you that have responded with ideas, encouragement, and prayer over my current situation. I'm still a bit shell shocked by all that has taken place and will re-examine my options over the next few days. A special note of thanks to Hudson (Plush) and Rich (Sonare) for their long phone conversations with me over the last few months.
Sorry to hear about Ippy. You know it is kind of true, when it rains it poors.

Very cool to hear that people like Plush are taking their time to give you good advice and support. I don't have the remote recording credentials of Plush but I will say that if you can some how figure out a way to get a steady part-time job that is week days only that might be a good way to keep what you love doing on the weekends. Just a thought.
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Sorry to hear about Ippy. Our pets are like our kids - some people don't realise just how bad it can feel to lose one.

Somewhere above someone mentioned the word "promotion" though perhaps not in the context that I initially took it. The thought it put in my mind was whether there's any mileage in doing something like actually putting on a concert to record and sell copies of. Maybe not exactly that, but if there's no work, maybe it's possible to create it from the ground up. That's on a small scale what I think the governments (world wide) are now trying to do - pump money in at the ground up to make new opportunities for adding value (which equals making a living).
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Just saw an interesting quote that is very appropriate to this discussion.

"jobs can become obsolete - talent never does"

Boy things seem to be getting a lot worse. Target, Intel, GM, Microsoft, Sprint, Home Depot, IBM, Pfizer and Catepillar have all announced layoffs with in the past week. So far 77,000 jobs have been lost this month alone and the news people are saying that unemployment may reach 10%. This is as bad if not worse when Regan took office in 1981. YUCK!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Wow... the proverbial $h!t is flying out here.... Just lost another 2 clients for the year today. So far, this winter/spring it is looking like a pretty solid 30% hit in business and we're only in January. 1 client has gone under, 2 more have seen their endowments shrink by massive amounts (1 has lost $125M of their endowment)... 2 other orchestras in LA that I don't work for have cut their seasons way back. Means less "trickle-down" work...

Things positively suck around here.

--Ben
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle ➑️
Wow... the proverbial $h!t is flying out here.... Just lost another 2 clients for the year today. So far, this winter/spring it is looking like a pretty solid 30% hit in business and we're only in January. 1 client has gone under, 2 more have seen their endowments shrink by massive amounts (1 has lost $125M of their endowment)... 2 other orchestras in LA that I don't work for have cut their seasons way back. Means less "trickle-down" work...

Things positively suck around here.

--Ben
Ben sorry to hear that. You are one of the best. This economy sucks big time and with all the lay off announced yesterday it is only going to suck more. Hang in there.
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