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Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
There just isn't any work, at least not where I'm at.
Have you tried contacting gear retailers, studios, Radio/TV stations, gear manufacturers etc.? Just phone 'em up, if there are any.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mike,

I read some solid advice on this thread.

You MUST look at the glass as half full not half empty.

It's your duty as a Remotester to hang in there my man.
It's essential to expand your service base by branching out into other areas.

Let us brainstorm away for you to get out of this mess!

All the best to you and yours!!!
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks, Steve. It's always best to have others analyze your situation when you can't see past it. I want to believe that there is something else out there, but it would help to see some concrete evidence to support it. Believe me, I've tried many of things suggested in this thread already.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
Believe me, I've tried many of things suggested in this thread already.
Why don't you tell us some of these things? Is there any radio/TV/studio scene worth mentioning?
How far away is the nearest place worth looking at for customers?

Daniel
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You could approach Full Sail and see if you can do some teaching. I doubt the staff there has the type of experience you have.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Hey, man, I feel for you. My one gig (a 6 week tour) this winter just disappeared when I broke my leg on the road. Now I'm sitting at home watching TV and reading Gearslutz for the next 8-12 weeks! But to put a positive spin on it, I'm using this time to procure clients, prepare taxes, and get ready to hit it hard in the spring when I'm able-bodied again. My wife's already working two jobs to pay the bills, but I'm convinced that we're going to make it through and be stronger for it. Hang in there; I too am a "nowhere to go but up from here" kind of guy.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's true; some times you must step out of your shell and look at yourself from a distance.

If the confirmation is not in your heart you might as well give up.

If you believe in yourself and the service you provide you must do everything in your power to hang in there.

The evidence ought to be clear.

Trust your heart, but verify your surroundings.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu ➑️
Why don't you tell us some of these things? Is there any radio/TV/studio scene worth mentioning?
How far away is the nearest place worth looking at for customers?

Daniel
In the last 3 years I've gone after all of the public school districts in my area (had meetings with the County Chairman), most of the local colleges (they all have their own people or don't do it at all), churches, community choirs, chamber groups, TV production companies (most of which I've worked for in the past), jazz bands, private prep schools, and so forth. Despite the presence of Disney and Universal, the only TV production done here anymore is TNA Wrestling! I did work on a show for Nickelodeon last August, but that won't be back 'till July (for 5 weeks).

The nearest major city to here is Tampa (2 hours or more) and they have people in place already. I've made overtures to their orchestra and opera, but no good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leddy ➑️
You could approach Full Sail and see if you can do some teaching. I doubt the staff there has the type of experience you have.
I've approached Full Sail many times about teaching the type of recording that I do, but they're not interested. I applied to teach music history there as well, but they only go back to 1900! They've had cutbacks, too.
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I "know" a guy on the internet who started a small audio restoration business, restoring out-of-copyright 78's and selling them as downloads on the internet. After a while he moved from the UK to a little village in France and seems to be doing very nicely thank you (if you are trading on the net, it doesn't really matter where you are, so you just pick a nice spot...). See Pristine Classical - The Greatest Recordings - The Finest Sound - Home Page

I don't know whether that kind of thing would be of the slightest interest to you as a temporary or permanent alternative, but it's another kind of audio business that requires a good understanding of classical music.

You can also advertise to do transfers of people's vinyl records to CD, etc, but you have to be careful of copyright issues. The same guy I mentioned above was very careful and proper about that, but still got raided by the copyright people after they actually trapped him into copying something illegally. That was I think part of his reason for moving out of the UK. I got him to do some transfers from early digital recordings I'd done to CD. You basically need a good selection of old working equipment to do that, and of course picking it up on eBay isn't too hard these days.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
boojum's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
The one positive historical note I can mention is that under FDR money was spent on the arts so that hungry artists could eat. The Depression Era artwork was wonderful, and some great works came out of it. Hopefully the incoming administration will be able to pump some money out to the arts this time, also. We all know that artists eat. It is important for the artist to eat on a regular basis.

I can offer no ideas on how to find work. If I could I would. I think the pros have offered all that can be offered. The one solid piece of advice I can offer is to not give up five minutes before the miracle.

I wish you calmness and faith that things will get better soon enough to make a difference.

All the best.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Addict
 
Chris Wilson's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
it's not just us who are loosing our shirts

In my case, having been too young during the dot-com explosion of the nineties, and being in college during the real-estate/Wall St. inflated market thing, I was never able to get on board that gravy train.

In both these boom/bust cycles, I saw the ridiculous money being made turning people into greedy a$$holes with a sense of entitlement like the world owed them money.

Watching people get rich while I was working my student ass off trying to learn the craft and trade of music was surreal.

People I interacted with at my **** job on the weekends seemed to fancy themselves "survival of the fittest" types.

Being treated like a second class citizen by someone with no class at all, is frustrating.

These dickheads were buying Jeeps with ski-racks while I'm living off pull-date meat on sale in the grocery store, and picking rosemary out of someone's yard on the way home for a garnish.

After finishing school, the last couple years started going better and better, and I was beginning to think I could leave my **** job and make my living in an industry I'd worked tirelessly at for years. My degree is in composition, and I work as a music copyist and recordist.

Now, the economy is dropping like a pair of panties on prom night and I lost damn near all the work I'd lined up for 2009.

Now, Boeing and Microsoft are laying off 5,000 people each, and every "tech" company in town is cutting staff.

Now, it isn't uncommon for one of my friends in the orchestra to offer me six comp tickets that they were given out to make it appear their subscriber base is larger than it currently is.


Now, there is a line of people who want the **** job I can no longer think about quitting . . .

In fact, a friend who works for a restaurant/club in town told me an ad for a server position received over 900 applicants, mostly laid off real-estate and computer people who had waited tables in college or something.

A very experienced engineer I know, who was "chief technical engineer" of a big fancy studio, which closed its doors, is now fixing home electronics and running live sound for any event he can just to scrape together a living.

I feel your frustration and want to scream sometimes too. To be victims of a crisis we did not bring about is not fair. My plan is to staple a smile on my face at the **** job I hope I don't loose, lay low, and learn every last detail about my equipment and hope in my heart that this economic meltdown isn't the death of the modern recording industry and it recovers somehow, better and stronger.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I did not see voice-over (or V/O demo for actors, or V/O service based upon ppl who payed for a V/O demo) mentioned or audio books. You could talk to book publishers but also to newspaper publishers. They have a large customer base, often writers among their staff, they are publisher already. It might be a new ballgame. Also an audio book needs quality recording.

That said, you already put in a lot of hours and usually the outcome of that is not direct. (As you know.)
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
+ As someone said before, you might want to rethink your website. If I see a Celtic cross I think, fiddle, handdrum and pub. Use the smell of fresh paint!
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
i know its hard, currently i dont know where im going either. instead of worrying about lost clients you need to find some new ones which may be in different market than you otherwise would of worked in. also consider contacting old clients that recently you havnt worked with because you never know. you may have to do some work in places you dont like for awhile. you may also find some work in support services or retail. also use the down time to fix and update things.

ive still been getting work fixing up and making new cables. people have had the time to work out what they need but those that can keep busy still dont have the time to do it all them selves and for some of us thats still an opportunity that we might not of worried about before. its something small but at least its something. im also making up alot of extra cables that i wont label yet so that ill have a quick turnover for anyone else that needs them or when the work comes in ill label them and use them.'

that said the 'crisis' is hitting us later and so far isnt as bad so maybe what is working out here is no longer viable for you but its something to think about anyway.

maybe we will all have so so much time on your hands that we be on this forum so much and it will become an even better place. thats what i like about the 'remote' forum is it is already more of a community than just the gear.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
videoteque's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
The one solid piece of advice I can offer is to not give up five minutes before the miracle.
thumbsupthumbsup

Or don't wait for the miracle, if you don't see any future where you live, plan a move out. But it's not easy to leave your place and start a new life somewhere else. I did it six years ago when I came to Italy and it wasn't easy at all even if I came here for love and my wife (and her family) were/are wonderful. Going to talk with people asking for work, when they know you haven't got anything, they just give you work to squeeze you. A lot of work for a little money is what you will get during this crisis period...

So my proposition is forget the first world, forget North America, Japan or Europe. Sell one of your mics and live one year in a country with real problems (not which preamp to choose to record a trumpet, but what will I eat tonight). It will sure change your life and when the crisis is off, you can come back probably being a better man!!!

A friend of mine in Madrid had a **** job and was really tired. So he had an idea to make a film in India. He bought a camcorder and left, has been there for one year, he was in B&B and payed 1.5€ per night. Now he's back, he recorded nearly 200 hours and now have to edit his film. Will he make money with his film?? Who knows!!! Did it change his life?? You can bet it did!!!!

Stop watching TV news or reading about all the cuts in the world. There will be a lot more. But knowing it doesn't help you.

Create your own future!!!
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Tenor39,

Have you found out why your big clients are no longer using your services?

We have had a few groups that use us on occasion and then don't come back to us for more work.

After doing some digging I came up with the following.

One group decided to let one of their members do the recording. <we could of done this one for free but it was not worth the time or the trouble and that is the only way we would have been able to beat the price>

One group decided that we were too expensive. <We came back with a less expensive way of doing the concerts but they wanted the old way at 1/2 the price which we were not able to do>

One group decided that they did not want to deal with the mechanical rights problems and decided not to record anymore concerts. <We are now providing that service for them and charging them for the service>

One group found some one else to do their recording for a lot cheaper price and we less than pleased with the results but they got exactly what they were not paying for. <They are back to using us>

One group told us point blank that they did not like what we had done for them and were "considering other options" They finally decided to come back to us after listening to our CD on something other than their conductor's laptop. <no accounting for some people's playback systems>

One group told us that they could no longer have their material recorded when the orchestra demanded an additional $65.00 per player per performance for the "privilege" of having them recorded and it would have been a $6,000 additional cost. <They now have no archives, they are not on the radio anymore, they went from doing three operas a year to doing one and are in danger of going belly up in the near future>

If you can find out why all these groups dropped your services maybe you can reconfigure your operation to address these "problems" It worked for us when we started providing additional services or modifying what we were providing.

Again BEST OF LUCK and let us know how this is all going!
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, That's a big list, Tom! In all but 2 cases the client quit recording because of funding cuts or other financial problems. They didn't even ask about lower pricing from me, they just slashed their budgets across the board. Orlando isn't exactly a mecca of culture.

In the other 2, one quit for reasons still unknown (A client for 9 years), though I suspect it's the "someone cheaper" or "parent with 2 mic's" scenario. They won't even return my phone calls. The second was a political affair that was well documented in another thread I had posted back in October. Let's just say that unprofessionalism rules the day in this town. I came from Chicago and most of the people in the Arts community here wouldn't last 5 minutes in a major-market city. Moving to a new city is definitely an attractive option IF I can get a decent gig there.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
Moving to a new city is definitelay an attractive option IF I can get a decent gig there.
So off you go... I guess that's what I'd do.
Anybody round here need a helping hand? I know of an experienced classical recordist looking for work... Will work outside the strictly classical field if required, I presume...
Do you currently owe anybody anything for gear, your house or whatever? Or have you got the means to finance moving elswhere (if a chance for some decent work arises)?
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu ➑️
So off you go... I guess that's what I'd do.
Anybody round here need a helping hand? I know of an experienced classical recordist looking for work... Will work outside the strictly classical field if required, I presume...
Do you currently owe anybody anything for gear, your house or whatever? Or have you got the means to finance moving elswhere (if a chance for some decent work arises)?
I have worked in many genres outside of classical music, including jazz, big band, celtic, folk, some rock, etc. I also have extensive experience in Television audio and production. I'm also a pretty damn good bench tech and wiring/installation tech. A fairly current resume is posted on my website.

I owe no one for my gear (I own everything), I rent my house (with a 30 day opt out clause), and we have some savings available for a move. I would prefer the Midwest or Southeast part of the country, but I'm open to other possibilities.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
Wow, That's a big list, Tom! In all but 2 cases the client quit recording because of funding cuts or other financial problems. They didn't even ask about lower pricing from me, they just slashed their budgets across the board. Orlando isn't exactly a mecca of culture.

In the other 2, one quit for reasons still unknown (A client for 9 years), though I suspect it's the "someone cheaper" or "parent with 2 mic's" scenario. They won't even return my phone calls. The second was a political affair that was well documented in another thread I had posted back in October. Let's just say that unprofessionalism rules the day in this town. I came from Chicago and most of the people in the Arts community here wouldn't last 5 minutes in a major-market city. Moving to a new city is definitelay an attractive option IF I can get a decent gig there.
Yea it sounds like it is not a great place for the kind of business you are running. There are a lot of people today that put price before quality (kinda like the person who only shops at WALMART) and it is hard for them to understand the difference between you charging what you do and someone's Dad doing it for free or for someone else doing it with less quality. The one group that decided not to use us anymore contracted with a guy who brought out the following gear. One DAT recorder (beat to he!!), 2 SM-57s, and a Shure mic mixer. Total investment was probably less than $1000. To every concert we do we bring approximately $10,000 worth of gear and I have 40 years in as a recording engineer of classical music. He was doing it for $25.00 cheaper. DUH! what is wrong with this picture???? and then he went out of business before delivering the goods to the group so they have no product and no archives of the concert. Needless to say we have them back as a client. I would think that a person with your skills would want to be closer to a large city somewhere like in Virginia and Washington DC or Pittsburgh or Chicago or Nashville or even in North Carolina.

No matter what you decide to do I wish you only the best. If you move out of your current location you are going to be the "new kid on the block" and it will take you a while to figure out the market and let people hear what you can do. If there is anyway to stay where you are you at least are a known quantity and already have a network of people you have worked with. Tough spot to be in...yikes!
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
d_fu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenor39 ➑️
I owe no one for my gear (I own everything), I rent my house (with a 30 day opt out clause), and we have some savings available for a move.
That's pretty good, I'd say. So look no further and look further, if you know what I mean.

BTW, got any kids? Just curious...
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_fu ➑️
That's pretty good, I'd say. So look no further and look further, if you know what I mean.

BTW, got any kids? Just curious...
Nope. Just me and the wife. A local moving company is going out of business, so I'm off to buy some furniture pads for cheap in preparation for whatever comes.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I'm really sorry to read your posts here, Mike.

I think that the Orlando area is not ripe territory for your work, so pick another place for quality of life and quality of work.

Blessings on you and your wife.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Jimbo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
The one group that decided not to use us anymore contracted with a guy who brought out the following gear. One DAT recorder (beat to he!!), 2 SM-57s, and a Shure mic mixer. Total investment was probably less than $1000. To every concert we do we bring approximately $10,000 worth of gear and I have 40 years in as a recording engineer of classical music. He was doing it for $25.00 cheaper. DUH! what is wrong with this picture???? and then he went out of business before delivering the goods
Ewww...symphonic with 57s??

You say that he "went out of business" before delivering the goods -- sounds to me like he heard his assy recording and was too embarrassed to deliver.

Best of luck, Mike.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Lives for gear
 
videoteque's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Go get a job!

One question for Thomas, were those SM57s used in XY or ORTF??????
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoteque ➑️
Go get a job!

One question for Thomas, were those SM57s used in XY or ORTF??????
Spaced Cardioids both pointed front about 6 inches apart so not quite ORTF and not X-Y. One had a pop filter on it the other did not. I guess so he could tell left from right.....heh
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I can so relate to most of this from a different point of view. Being unemployed and a former I.T. guy. I look at it this way, I'm sticking it to the man because I'm not paying $25K per year in taxes anymore on money I didn't make. Given my current political statement, that's almost $200K the .gov didn't get from me in the past 7+ years (thanks bush).

I'm just grateful I'm not an orphan, and GrandPa left me some scratch when he passed. Otherwise I'd be yet another homeless veteran.

Sure I could work most jobs. And probably should look harder, and otherwise will need to shortly. But I've gotten a good test run on what I need to make happen should I ever really retire. Unfortunately I.T. is not where it's at anymore. And I.T. normally precedes the economy, so I don't think the worst of it is behind us just yet.
I guess I better understand why most of my $25 an hour plus coworkers were so invested in amway, avon, basket sales, princess house, and other activities while trying to hold down an I.T. job.

I certainly haven't benefited much by being in the I.T. biz, since most of my take was used to hold me over and move me to the next job. i.e. Not a day closer to actual retirement as I was on the day I graduated High School. Although I suppose being in air condition and not being shot at has it's pluses. All of my bills are paid and I'm in the black, so I guess that's the best I can hope for in this life. As that old sergeant used to say in the Army, every day is a bonus.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➑️
I'm really sorry to read your posts here, Mike.

I think that the Orlando area is not ripe territory for your work, so pick another place for quality of life and quality of work.

Blessings on you and your wife.
Thanks, Hudson. I think your comment is dead on. I do need both quality of work AND quality of life. Too many times I've sacrificed the later for the former.
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
jinksdingo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Have you decided how your going to handle your income?

Apart from all the advices, what are You going to do about it?

It is your life. Your in the drivers seat. What have you decided?

About a year ago the media started the "Global Recession" campaign as the orchestrated sub prime loan foreclosure began.
I looked around here and there was no sign of an economy collapse.

Well near a year has gone by and the media have been propagandizing it daily and "how we gotta "tighten our belts".

The answer is promoting and producing.

But to orchestrate an economic collapse it is essential to make people believe that they must not spend and for Business to either get out before it gets too bad or downsize and consolidate.

Shrink rather than grow is the mantra. So that is what is happening.


Now do you go into agreement with it and follow suit?

Or are you going to realize that the big boys make good money in buying up in bad times so bad times are created.

This is a cycle that has gone on ever since money lenders could control an economy.


What are you going to do to handle your income?
What can you produce that that people want and you can get paid for in return?
Old 24th January 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
tenor39's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't really know how to answer your questions. I also believe that the media has fueled the recession fears so that their favorites would get into office and take over. But how does knowing that help me? I admit that the things I see every day here are frightening from a financial and social perspective. What is the way out for me, in your opinion?
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