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Herbie Hancock Lights It Up At Newport
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➡️
Well, it's always great to have another shot at the mix, especially when it's a festival with multiple bands and no real soundchecks.
Steve, I should have had a "LOL" in there. The remix is a wonderful event where it can be done. In your case I do not think it will be a reflection of new skills but rather the chance to re-do without time pressure.

FWIW - I have to make a mini gobo and drag it along to a Monday gig I have. While that idea may have crossed many of our minds you did it and reported back.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #32
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🎧 15 years
No worries, no "LOL" necessary...

Remixing is indeed a wonderful event anyway you look at it.

In a live situation anything can happen.

You know what, Sandy?
Sometimes it can be a reflection of new skills or trying a different technique or approach.

Usually, it's about having the right amount of time to get it the way you intend it to be in the first place.

So, now it's your turn to make a mini gobo and report back about it.
Take some picture too ;-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum ➡️
Steve, I should have had a "LOL" in there. The remix is a wonderful event where it can be done. In your case I do not think it will be a reflection of new skills but rather the chance to re-do without time pressure.

FWIW - I have to make a mini gobo and drag it along to a Monday gig I have. While that idea may have crossed many of our minds you did it and reported back.
Old 27th January 2013 | Show parent
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➡️
So, now it's your turn to make a mini gobo and report back about it.
Take some picture too ;-)
Steve, taking a picture of the mini-gobo might be a problem as I am working with a secret sauce array and this type of pic would give it away. I will try and make the mini-gobo and just take a pic of it apart from the array. If all else fails I can fall back on McDonalds for this kind of audio gear. The problem is a too-close ceiling and a too-apparent HVAC system all in a too-small rehearsal room. But as Doug Tourtelot points out in his tagline, each session is just another problem to be solved.
Old 29th January 2013 | Show parent
  #34
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum ➡️
too-close ceiling and a too-apparent HVAC system all in a too-small rehearsal room.
I'm smelling a few fig-8 mics here
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch ➡️
I'm smelling a few fig-8 mics here
The stink is a crappy rehearsal room. It was a store, a small one at that. Front to back the center of the ceiling is devoted to a 20 - 24" HVAC duct. It, the duct, has the usual circular vents to blow air where I do not want it. But, it is not my space. My Opa's expression for a situation like this was "Scheisse mit Reis" which is just as well left in the original German. ;o) Opa used it rarely, only when things were ganz beschissen. To protect from the draft of the HVAC vent I am placing a foam gobo over the mics, a foam chupa, if you will. LOL With all this German and Yiddish floating around I am sure a Klezmer band will dash out of the back and take over the whole rehearsal with raucous clarinet squawks.


Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Herbie Hancock Lights It Up At Newport-rehearsal-space-hell.jpg  
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 15 years
The funniest thing about that picture is the dog walking away. Deutscher Schäferhund?

How well did that gobo get you rid of LF rumble from the HVAC?
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch ➡️
The funniest thing about that picture is the dog walking away. Deutscher Schäferhund?

How well did that gobo get you rid of LF rumble from the HVAC?
Paul, I think the dog is a mutt. She is sweet and a little spoiled. She is pretty sure everyone is her friend and will pet her. And that seems to be working for her. She works it on me every time.

The Monday gig did not come to pass. I was at home on the coast and it is about four hours round trip for the 1.5 - 2 hour gig and it was really a bad rain day. And I live in the rainiest city in the US, 67+ inches annually, 170+ cm. So I drove down the coast to record the Monday night bluegrass jam. It did not go well as my prior solution of dropping the DS60 inside the circle of performers and running it as a Blumlein is the way to go there. But the comparison was interesting in the performers who could be heard well. Tourtelot is right: each session is a problem to be solved.

The rumble will be suppressed in the part that is a draft. The indirect rumble of the system is just part of the joy of that room.

Tschuess.
Old 30th January 2013 | Show parent
  #38
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Apologies for this thread hijack. Please make it another thread, Steve, if you feel it warrants it.
Old 31st January 2013 | Show parent
  #39
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🎧 15 years
Hey, I asked for it.

Folks wanting to talk about this instead of the OT says a lot I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boojum ➡️
Apologies for this thread hijack. Please make it another thread, Steve, if you feel it warrants it.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #40
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🎧 5 years
I will have to give this a listen when I get home and have more than a phone to listen on. It looks like a blast though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➡️
Well, it's always great to have another shot at the mix, especially when it's a festival with multiple bands and no real soundchecks.
I spent more than a year doing live to two channel mixes like that for a church. They went right into the DVD recorder so the DVDs could be given out at the end of the service. The only effects/processing was what was in the board (one of the smaller allen and heaths, it only had a subset of the channels from the FOH subgroup outs and then two room mics). That was some of the most fun I had ever had, trying to keep up with what was going on. Especially since there wasn't a limiter or compressor anywhere in the chain and the finnal DVD had to be loud enough to watch on a regular TV. Certainly not mu best mixes ever, but definetly my favorite to do.
Old 7th February 2013
  #41
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🎧 15 years
I cut my teeth doing live to 2mixes when I was in my teens into my 20s.

Believe it or not, it's how I learned how to track like a pro because it had to sound like a "record" (not that my mixes did back then) on the spot.
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #42
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remoteness ➡️
I cut my teeth doing live to 2mixes when I was in my teens into my 20s.

Believe it or not, it's how I learned how to track like a pro because it had to sound like a "record" (not that my mixes did back then) on the spot.
I started doing the mixes for the church when I was 19 (23 now) I certainly have learned a ton from it though I have a long long way to go still. I never did figure out the "make it sound like a record" with that system. I didn't get to do any of the microphone setup or anything though (the one show they didn't put up any drum mics even! I had to quick throw up and overhead with the last available mic, an SM57, still amazed at how good that sounded!) The only complaints I ever got were people not being able to hear the bass guitar on their TV but not many people seemed to pay attention to the sound at all.

As an aside, phone keyboards suck....
Old 7th February 2013 | Show parent
  #43
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🎧 15 years
I recording a lot of awesome gospel records during the early days of Aura-Sonic. A lot of two inch (analog tape) goodness!

It's where I got a chance to figure out how to turn bad leakage into good leakage...

Placement is everything; IMHO, it's really about placing the transducers (speakers & mics) in the right direction; then it's about the gear, but not before the "ear!"

Having the opportunity to do all those WPIX-FM live radio broadcasts in the late 70s and capturing a boat load of multitrack gospel recordings was how I honed in on my sound which I'm still trying to perfect.

FYI, you don't need "that system" to figure out how to "make it sound like a record!" All you need is your ears.


Quote:
Originally Posted by x_25 ➡️
I started doing the mixes for the church when I was 19 (23 now) I certainly have learned a ton from it though I have a long long way to go still. I never did figure out the "make it sound like a record" with that system. I didn't get to do any of the microphone setup or anything though (the one show they didn't put up any drum mics even! I had to quick throw up and overhead with the last available mic, an SM57, still amazed at how good that sounded!) The only complaints I ever got were people not being able to hear the bass guitar on their TV but not many people seemed to pay attention to the sound at all.

As an aside, phone keyboards suck....
Old 8th February 2013
  #44
Gear Maniac
I will always favor an audio engineer in any situation with considerable live sound experience. I have gotten so angry watching engineers futz around in the studio trying to solve simple audio problems. You can't get away with that in a live environment!
Old 8th February 2013 | Show parent
  #45
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🎧 15 years
And, how about when a studio (only) engineer attempts to capture a live performance recording?

If you're a seasoned remote recording engineer you can record anywhere with great results.
If you're an accomplished recording (studio only) engineer you can record in a studio like a champ, but struggle on location when things are not just right.

YMMV, but I see this happen all the time I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsbe ➡️
I will always favor an audio engineer in any situation with considerable live sound experience. I have gotten so angry watching engineers futz around in the studio trying to solve simple audio problems. You can't get away with that in a live environment!
Old 14th August 2013
  #46
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How was the bass recorded? And what amp did the bass player of Herbie Hancock use? Sounds super dry.
Old 14th August 2013 | Show parent
  #47
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🎧 15 years
The input list is in Post # 10 of this thread.

There are also pictures of the stage.
Check it out -- perhaps you can grab some answers from there.

Keep in mind, this was five years ago, so I don't exactly remember what Dave Holland was using unless I review the images and such.

I wish I could have been more helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur ➡️
How was the bass recorded? And what amp did the bass player of Herbie Hancock use? Sounds super dry.
Old 6th March 2014
  #48
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hi steve, it would be great if you let us take a shot at mixing one of your multitrack sessions (if the artist permits).

thanks.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #49
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🎧 15 years
Well, I could entertain a "mix camp" type of situation where we could have a select few of us Remotesters take a shot at mixing one of my multitrack sessions.

We could setup a "mixing in the box," and mixing on real desk (analog and/or digital) scenarios, and see where each mix system takes us.

What say you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginaryday ➡️
hi steve, it would be great if you let us take a shot at mixing one of your multitrack sessions (if the artist permits).

thanks.
Old 6th March 2014
  #50
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That's even better idea. Please count me in as ITB guy and as a jazz lover. thanks for the swift reply steve.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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If you are offering us the opportunity for some guided mixing seminars (?) I would love to try my hand ITB with my DAW. I desperately need to get some chops in mixing. Brian on the board helped me with some pointers which have improved mixes I did four years or so ago. But I would be eager to learn at the feet of the master. Or, another master. That says it better.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Old thread but interesting. About 4 years ago, back in the days of live music, I went to a Herbie Hancock concert at the Beacon Theater in NYC. Good or rather expensive orchestra level seats courtesy of a rich old friend. Hated the sound. Certainly sounded every bit like a rock concert. Worst of all was the kinda pitch challenged bass sound. Hate that.

Of course the players were great but in a way this thread has enlightened me to why these kind of live shows always sounded so bad. Given enough time to spot check audience positions and maybe some in depth remote control maybe things would be better. Also could have been the fact that my seat was directly in the line of fire of a giant sub and I was also pretty close to the thing.

I’m sure those mixing the show heard something completely different but that’s not really the point after all.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #53
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🎧 15 years
Musicians are only as good as the engineers and technicians they surround themselves with.

And, even when you have the best surrounding you, other situations can come into play.

A seat closest to the FOH mix position is you best bet in hearing what the live sound engineer is envisioning. That being said, there must be enough time to spot check the various audience positions. It's how it should be done.

Having your handy iPad for remote control access is mission critical these days.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroko ➡️
Old thread but interesting. About 4 years ago, back in the days of live music, I went to a Herbie Hancock concert at the Beacon Theater in NYC. Good or rather expensive orchestra level seats courtesy of a rich old friend. Hated the sound. Certainly sounded every bit like a rock concert. Worst of all was the kinda pitch challenged bass sound. Hate that.

Of course the players were great but in a way this thread has enlightened me to why these kind of live shows always sounded so bad. Given enough time to spot check audience positions and maybe some in depth remote control maybe things would be better. Also could have been the fact that my seat was directly in the line of fire of a giant sub and I was also pretty close to the thing.

I’m sure those mixing the show heard something completely different but that’s not really the point after all.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #54
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Musicians are only as good as the engineers and technicians they surround themselves with.
I appreciate the thread and your response. This is an enlightening thread for a musician/engineer.

Certain aspects of live sound from the audience perspective have always left me wondering what in the world the sound engineers were thinking/hearing. It is now clearer than ever that there are any number of variables in play that can diminish the sound quality in any number of positions in the venue. More than microphones, mixers and speakers, there is the significant factor of time and opportunity to prepare everything prior to the concert.

Unfortunately, when you purchase a ticket for an assigned seat, that is where you will sit and whatever it sounds like in that spot, that is what you will hear.

I now have a better understanding and appreciation for the job done by technicians and engineers in live music.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Incidentally, this concert is not available on the NPR website but I think it is available on YouTube. I'm listening and it does sound better than the concert I heard at the Beacon theater.

Just to be certain, Dave Holland was playing electric bass?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #56
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroko ➡️
(...) Just to be certain, Dave Holland was playing electric bass?
although mostly known for his work with the acoustic bass, dave holland excelled on the electric bass too: he can be seen playing (even mostly) the electric bass in videos (dating back to the early 90's) from a tour supporting the album 'parallel realities' - one of the most incredible line-ups imo: dejohnette, hancock, metheny and holland!

i feel very priviledged that i got to mix a few live shows on the european leg of the tour in addition to being being drum tech, roadie, driver, stage manager, tour manager and whatnot - my favourite tune remains to be 'nine over reggae'; takes a while until dave joins in though :-)

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 03:35 PM.. Reason: edited and info added
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #57
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🎧 15 years
Originally, this live concert broadcast was indeed aired live on the NPR, and its affiliates. Once the live broadcast was aired, it became available on the NPR website for a few of years. Once the contractual agreement was up, it was pulled from the website.

The version that's available on YouTube is not my live broadcast mix. The audio for that video is from FOH. That said, the FOH mix does sound good, but it's nothing like the live mix I was able to create and balance on board The Bread Mobile.

Yes, Dave Holland was definitely playing electric bass.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroko ➡️
Incidentally, this concert is not available on the NPR website but I think it is available on YouTube. I'm listening and it does sound better than the concert I heard at the Beacon theater.

Just to be certain, Dave Holland was playing electric bass?
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