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snare mics with good rejection?
Old 13th February 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
snare mics with good rejection?

What should I look into for a snare mic with good rejection of hats and BD. I am not too enamored with my 57 and 421. Any suggestions would be incredibly helpful. I am looking into an earthworks SR68 hypercardiod, but I'm not too sure. Thanks!!!
Old 13th February 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Messiah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
When I find this situation to be problematic I reach for a Shure Beta 56, which is quite a tight hyper, or a Sennheiser 509 really close in.
You can also look at expansion as an option to help out....
Old 13th February 2003
  #3
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
New snare head, quiet hats!
Old 13th February 2003
  #4
Here for the gear
 
rubykitty2000's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have a pair of Zidjian A's from the sixties that are nice and quiet and mellow. I can usually talk the drummer into using them. If not I say 'well, I hope you like hi-hat."

Charles
Old 13th February 2003
  #5
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You need to put a dog collar on that biatch. Then you can use any damn hats and snare you want.

Go to home depot and buy a piece of flexible sheet plastic. Cut a 2" wide piece to the length you need to wrap around the top of the mic: wide at the top tapering down diagonally on each side to a narrow bottom. Shape the plastic into a cone and tape the seams together. Duct tape the plastic around the head of any round mic so mic's grill is half an inch or so inside the dog collar.

This is a lot easier to do that I've made it sound and it works like a charm. It lets you position the snare mic anywhere you want, even where it would normally be too close to the hat. It also kind of focuses the snare sound a bit.
Old 13th February 2003
  #6
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
That would definately work, but I am not liking the sound of the 57 or 421. Any alternatives? Thanks!!
Old 14th February 2003
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Audio Technica ATM-25 (NOT Pro-25) - built like a brick ****house, hypercardoid pattern, immense sound on practically anything. Β£99 ($160?)
Old 14th February 2003
  #8
Here for the gear
 
rubykitty2000's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
460

The best snare mic I've found yet is a C460 / CK1. It's very natural and articulate. Sometimes I point it at the shell - that way I get more sound from...uh...the shell. I'd like to try the hyper capsule - anybody know what the model is? CK3?

I also want to get a Beyer M201 and try it. A certain skinny spectacled recording engineer likes to use a 460 with a 201 taped to it.

I think I'm going to have to try the dog collar thing.

-Charles
Old 14th February 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Messiah's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Manny Grossman
That would definately work, but I am not liking the sound of the 57 or 421. Any alternatives? Thanks!!
I mentioned a couple earlier (beta 56, Senn 509), but another mic I really like at times is the AKG C28. I usually use it in conjunction with a 57 though and I particularly like what the C28 does on the side of snares with a 57 on top. However, it's not the combo I go for first if the drummer is "hat heavy".

Sound Replacer anyone???
Old 14th February 2003
  #10
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
This might sound bizzare, but I have found that my Neve 1073 mic pres play a dramatic role in reducing spill. I'm not referring to using EQ to roll off tops, but simply the mic pre on its own.

When comparing the same mic (SM57 in this case) and hearing it through various pre's (Avalon AD2022, UA2108, VIPRE, V76, etc.) they all exhibit much more hat bleed.

I can't put my finger on the exact reason. I know the 1073's are working correctly as Brent Averill services them periodicly and they sound great. It could have something to do with the way the 1073 distorts the top and bottom end a bit and places more emaphasis on the bottoms and mids.

Regardless of what is happening technicaly, I have found that when I've used other mic pre's on a kit, a hi-hat mic was rarely ever needed due to the collective bleed from all the other mics on the kit. With the 1073's over the kit, each drum is more focused, dense and dryer, all of which I find sonicly appealing. There is no question that bleed is severely reduced. These qualities could be some of the reasons that engineers like tracking drums with Neve's.

So in my conclusion, while a different mic can attribute better rejection, I've also found that the mic pre plays a role.
Old 14th February 2003
  #11
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I can usually get pretty good rejection out of a 57, the 421 has a wider pattern and can be a bitch. I rarely use one on snare for that reason, also I like them better on other things. If your having a problem keeping the bass drum out of the snare then I'd assume you have a problem with mic placement, the drummer, EQ or a combination of all three. I aim the null of the mic at the hi-hat and if I can't fit a 57 in there, well I'll use something that fits in the physical space and EQ it to work.

If a 57 ain't cutting it I'll try an Oktava MC012, 414, MD504 or an AKG D310. After that when I mix I'll patch an expander onto the snare track to tame the hat by another 6-9dB or so. Any more then that and it starts to become obvious.
Old 14th February 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm cool with the 57. When isolation rears it's fugly head, plumers insulation at the hardware store works awesome. In a pinch, paper towels cosole taped around the mic to block mainly the hat and 1st tom helps. I even used silly putty once. What doesn't that stuff do?!
Old 14th February 2003
  #13
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Crown CM700 works REALLY well for me... and i picked them up dirt cheap too.
Old 14th February 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Roland's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
57's and Beyer 201's are great! I know of (and have on many occassions used) others like DPA's, CK451's, earthworks, Audio technica's etc.

If you are having problems with rejection or sound using the 57's I respectfully suggest looking at where you are placing them, or the drummer.

Too many great drum sounds done with these in the past prove that they do work if you know how to use them.

Regards


Roland
Old 16th February 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
rmx16's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A sm98 with a polar modifier usually works for me.

Peace
Old 16th February 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
 
bleen's Avatar
I've had good luck with an ATM23he; great tom mic, too!rollz
Old 17th February 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
andre tchmil's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Beyer 201N
I got a pair of these for free one day. since then I never looked back.
hypercardiod but very open
crazy but true.

Old 27th February 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
bjornson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Since reprogramming drummers to lay off the hat can be so difficult, another trick (besides the dog collar)
are Zildjians' "special recording hats": The 10" and 12". The tone is great and it's almost impossible to play them louder than the snare. People look at them funny until they hear playback. The one downside is that playing them 1/2 open is a bit tricky... Not as much room for slop.
Old 2nd March 2003
  #19
Gear Nut
 
Pricey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My favorite is an Oktava 319 inside a Pine-Sol bottle cut in half. Great isolation.
Old 3rd March 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Saucyjack's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Pricey,
you must post a picture.....rollz
Old 3rd March 2003
  #21
Gear Nut
 
Pricey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't have a scanner, so I drew a picture. Don't laugh.

Use an Exacto knife and gloves so you don't cut yourself. Cut off the top of the bottle, so the mic will fit inside. Turn the bottle upside down. Cut a narrow "window" in the front of the bottle. Line the inside with cloth, and put the mic inside.

The bottom of the bottle has an indentation that takes up too much space. So I softened the plastic by holding it near a stove burner, then (with gloves) I popped out the indentation with my thumb.

It should look like this:
Attached Images
File Type: bmp bottle.bmp (107.9 KB, 279 views)
Old 3rd March 2003
  #22
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I figured this would be easier then people downloading.
Old 4th March 2003
  #23
Gear Nut
 
Pricey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks - I just noticed the "insert image" button.
Old 4th March 2003
  #24
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No problem.
Old 5th March 2003
  #25
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
Crown CM700 works REALLY well for me... and i picked them up dirt cheap too.
I'll second that- although it's still a fairly wide pattern. The CM700, to me, doesn't so much reduce bleed as make it sound better.
Old 6th March 2003
  #26
Gear Nut
 
TwistTurner's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Beyer M201 is hypercardiod and works great on snare. I never liked condensers on on snare, I 've tried 451's and KM84's with no luck, they just sound brittle to me.
Old 24th March 2003
  #27
Gear Addict
 
Beezoboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sennheiser 441 can be pretty good. They certainly have good rejection. The only problem is that they are like a foot long.

Beez
Old 30th March 2003
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
Henrik's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I really love the Sennheiser MD441 for snare.
Old 6th April 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Berolzheimer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'll third that about the Senn 441, nice tight pattern & good sounding on snare but can be a bitch to position due to their length.
Old 12th April 2003
  #30
Han
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Another vote for the 441. I've used almost everything on snare, but I end using a 441 or a 201 most of the time.

The 57 can be a decent snare mic, but a loud hi hat will sound like ****.
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