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How do you mix drums?
Old 30th January 2003
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
How do you mix drums?

Do you mix from the drummers perspective or the audience perspective? Hi-hat on the left or right for a right handed drummer?

jason
Old 30th January 2003
  #2
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Drummer perspective 90+% of the time, which means that the hat (if I were to turn up the hat track) is on the left.
Old 30th January 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I generally do drummers perspective in the studio, audience persective for live stuff.. there was a pretty involved thread over on Remote Possibilites about this.. some good reading at

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=1220
Old 30th January 2003
  #4
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i dont know how many times this question has been asked [and how many times i have answered] but i always go audience perspective... mainly because i put my drums centered and back a tad so if you were to "view" the soundstage andi made it drummers perspective, the drummer would have their back turned towards the listener.
Old 30th January 2003
  #5
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Audience perspective seems to make sense to me.......but then you don't know if you're listening to a left handed drummer or not anyway.
Which brings me to my main point.
I'm a drummer and I don't think it really matters, does it?
hi-Hat
Old 30th January 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Drummers' perspective... Cuz I'm a drummer (well, used to be) and anything else feels wrong and is a constant distraction.

A live recording however, should be audience perspective (as the exception).

And I'm with Alpha to a degree: Can't stand superwide pans on toms, but I do like a little movement...

YMMV, whatever works for the song is best.
Old 30th January 2003
  #7
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Drummers perspective. I've also never had anyone ask me to flip it.
Old 30th January 2003
  #8
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
So for live, do they mix from the drummer's perspective? When I was a kid, I liked Rush, and all the drummers in the crowd knew the direction the tom fills followed, so it would be pretty messed up to them if you flipped the perspective, even when the natural perspective is what they would be hearing w/o the benefit of the PA. (Yeah, it's academic in the stadiums, but still . . .)

I like mono drums, actually . . .

Bear
Old 30th January 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What about those drummers with two hats....L & R?
Old 30th January 2003
  #10
Gear Addict
 
CrazyBeast's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
What about those drummers with two hats....L & R?
Screw em !
Old 30th January 2003
  #11
Gear Guru
 
chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That's right fuuck LOL
Old 31st January 2003
  #12
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Usually drummer's perspective. I prefer mono drums and set-up mics to best capture the kit as the drummer would here it...or like to hear it.
Old 31st January 2003
  #13
s2n
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Audience perspective.
Mono.
Hard left.
Hard right.
It depends.
Old 31st January 2003
  #14
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
What about those drummers with two hats....L & R?
Inform them that they aren't Stuart Copeland.
Old 31st January 2003
  #15
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Is it a drummer's record?
Different styles, I mix drums depending first on the song and second on the particular kit. The great thing about having a bunch of mics. is that you can make choices, listen and decide. Play with reality, make it more than real, it's unlimited.
Jazz, basically mono but shifted to on side of the stage with some synthetic ambience mirroring. Death and related metal double mic every drum with 4 overheads and make a false stereo image omni double mono room. and so forth
Old 1st February 2003
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I mix drummer's perspective. Too many years playing. Audience perspective screws with my feeble brain!
Old 1st February 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I used to always mix in perspective, sometimes the drummers, sometimes the listeners...nowadays, i mix according to what sits in the mix the 'right' way..and its not always in perspective...sometimes its where the particular piece of percussion sounds right...maybe next to an acoustic guitar i'll sit the hat and a bit of panned out snare echo...i do always bring the kik from slightly off center against the bass slightly off the other direction...i find that this helps alot in establishing a good beginning for a distinct panorama.......peece
Old 1st February 2003
  #18
Gear Addict
 
mdbeh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I can go either way the drummer or audience perspective, but I do keep it in mind when I'm panning other instruments.

For example, if I've got a fairly bright ride cymbal towards one side, I'd probably put a "ringy" bright guitar part on the other side, so HF doesn't all build up in one place.
Old 1st February 2003
  #19
Jax
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I started out doing it drummer's perspective because it made the most sense to me being a drummer, but I switched recently for two reasons. First, I'm left-handed. For some, this concept is too much to grasp immediately... "You mean you play the drums left-handed??" Not everyone has seen a lefty setup nor would they recognize that it was switched in a recording without it being pointed out. Nonetheless, lately I make it sound like the drummer is playing a righty setup because that's the way it sounds in most recordings. It just sounds better to me for some reason, and my mixes make more sense to me with righty drums. Tom fills go right (hi tom) to left (floor tom) and the hi hat is on the left. Generally a smaller crash will be on the hi hat side and a larger crash plus a ride will be on the floor tom side, but that depends on the drummer's setup.

Still, I hear a lot of recordings, especially in rock, where you can't even tell whether the drummer is made to sound righty or lefty. It sounds like Big Mono. Some Soundgarden tunes come to mind, even though I love the drum sounds and the hyper-squashing is appropriate.

The rest, like how forward the drums are in the mix and how much of a sense of depth I want to convey, all depends on the style of music and the song.
Old 1st February 2003
  #20
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's pretty obvious for me. Especially during TV broadcasts or film and video shoots...

Audience and/or camera perspective is a must to keep the live experience solid. I even hold that rule on live radio broadcasts that don't reference to visual images! Hey, I wanna hear it like I'm in the best seat in the house. What's wrong with that?

I got a simple rule...

Drummers perspective in the studio.

Audience perspective on all live events.
Old 3rd February 2003
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I assisted one guy who would pan every other tom almost hard right and left. He liked to hear a lot of movement on fills. Sometimes that sounds cool to me, most times it doesn't.
Old 3rd February 2003
  #22
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I assisted one guy who would pan every other tom almost hard right and left. He liked to hear a lot of movement on fills. Sometimes that sounds cool to me, most times it doesn't.
interesting. How many toms was that? if it was three are you saying hard left center and vhard right?

i've done floori in center hard left and hard right to the multitrack with good results.
Old 3rd February 2003
  #23
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My memory is a bit fuzzy on that, it was 3 racks and I think one floor, might've been two. Normally with a kit like that I'd put the first rack tom around 9 or 10 o'clock with the last rack tom at 2 or 3 and the floor's at 3 & 4 or 5 & 6. He had them panned with the first rack at 8, second at 3, third at 10 or 11 etc. When there was a fill that went across all the toms (and there were quite a few IIRC) you'd hear quite a bit of movement. Also, all the toms were gated in the mix which helps to make that possible and not smear the kits stereo image and create phase problems.

I usually get the toms on three tracks. A stereo pair of rack toms and the floor tom or toms on their own track. Overall I end up using around 9 or 10 tracks for drums. I can also get that down to 4 or 5 if I need to but I like to leave 'em spread out if I can.
Old 3rd February 2003
  #24
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
this current band im working with originally had a right handed drummer who played on their EP [yet to finish] and now have a left handed drummer... what to do?
Old 3rd February 2003
  #25
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That's easy. Put all the left handed drummers tracks hard right and the right handed drummers songs hard left. That'll screw 'em up.
Old 3rd February 2003
  #26
Here for the gear
 
AlanThomas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've seen several discussions on various forums about this subject, all with plenty of interesting opinions.

It's totally engineer-nerd stuff though. No "normal" person that I've asked about it gave a rats ass about it and most didn't really understand what I was referring to...

Old 5th February 2003
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Cape's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hang on a mo, now drummers perspective okay, but do we start mixing the string section in an orchestra from the string sections perspective and so on ..emmm, no, why? you'd have to ask the guys who know their ****. I've not heard of any microphones been placed below a stage in the storage area, to capture the janitor/caretaker's perspective, when looking for his broom during live performances.

Experiment yes, I do, but to say this is the way it should be done is poppy cocka a doodle do.
Old 5th February 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Inform them that they aren't Stuart Copeland.
And if it is Stuart Copeland, Punch him and say that that was for making us deal with all those drummers with 2 hats....
Old 5th February 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Cape
Hang on a mo, now drummers perspective okay, but do we start mixing the string section in an orchestra from the string sections perspective and so on ..emmm, no, why? you'd have to ask the guys who know their ****. I've not heard of any microphones been placed below a stage in the storage area, to capture the janitor/caretaker's perspective, when looking for his broom during live performances.

Experiment yes, I do, but to say this is the way it should be done is poppy cocka a doodle do.
Oddly enough, i put High String parts on the Left in 99% of the time, bacause I saw them here once live, and it just feels right that way. I was never a janitor though..
Old 15th February 2003
  #30
Here for the gear
 
808st8's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Alright, this goes back to the original thread of mixing drums. I'm an audio engineer in training, bare with me if some terms are not correct. I'm curious about mixing drums and their pan postion in relationship to using a stereo midside mic setup (like the Sennheiser 422). Here's what sparked my question here - Say you pan your toms (ie 4 toms) out in the stereo field (to your taste ofcourse), then you turn up the room mic you used. Does that room mic now confuse the placement of all the individual drums in the mix? Is this a dumb question? I know room mics add a lot to a drum mix, but then I started thinking. I suppose with all the other instruments, any of that would be covered over, but isn't it the details that make the difference between good and great mixes? Hmmm. Brain or ears, both, Anyone? Does my question make sense?
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