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NO sound check, NO time, what mics and where ?
Old 26th November 2002
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
NO sound check, NO time, what mics and where ?

I get a call last week, some friends were getting off the road at the same time and want to do a fun gig up in Ojai. These guys are top session players in L.A. and they can pull together an awesome sound within minutes. The question is can I ?

If you had to put mics up on a drum kit, bass and 2 guitar cabs ( in this case a matchless that can create a gail force wind and a vintage tweed fender that's insanely cool sounding) what would they be and where ?

I pulled it off and everyone is stoked with the results, but I always wonder what I could have done to make it that much better. I'd love to hear what you guys would do with no time and no sound check.
Old 26th November 2002
  #2
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What can I pick from? I'd probably go with the standard stuff that I know rather then trying anything exotic. A pair of audience/room mics, kick, snare, toms, OH, bass amp & DI and some dynamics on the guitars, probably 421's 57's, 441's or M88's. Those are pretty tough to blow up and rarely sound ****ty. Position? Whatever will minimize the leakage and isn't too whacked. Tough to say without being there.
Old 26th November 2002
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
What to choose from, without any clue up front, what won't blow up. That was what I was asking, what's consistently worked for you ?
Old 26th November 2002
  #4
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Without knowing more about the style of music or the drums & cymbals or the type of drummer you worked with... I can guess a few mic options for you...

Kick:
M88, E602, MD421 or RE20

Snare:
SM57, TLM103, KM140, KM84, 4011 or a MD431

O/H's:
M160's, M149's, U47's
If you need to mic the toms:
MD409's, MD421's, KM140's, KM86's, C414BULS's

Bass rig:
Nice Active DI and/or Tube DI like a Juice box or other flavor
I've used everything from an RE20 to MD421 to D12 to U47FET on the speaker cabinet.

On the GTR cabinets:
I would use MD409's, MD421's, SM57's, AT4050's

You may want to combo some of these mics. For an example, a SM57 & a KM84 for the snare would work nicely. Anything is possible.

But one thing is for sure, if I was on "that" desert island and only had two mic s to pick from, they probably would be a MD421 & a SM57.... Chances are, they will not blow up on you. But that's another story.

The choices I mentioned above really depend on what you're going for and what they sound like or should I say, "what they want to sound like." What about the space you recorded in? That matter too.

But, we still want to know what you used. Don't hold out my man!
Hey, everyone dug your set up. Tell us sometime soon. OK?
Old 27th November 2002
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the reply Remoteness.

What I did wasn't what I'd do with more time, but worked out.

Beta 98s on the toms, Beta 91 in the kick, M-147s overhead, Audix D-3 on the snare.

Avalon U5 DI for the Bass and MD421s on Bass and Guitar cabs.

Neumann Stereo for the room.
Old 27th November 2002
  #6
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Not too shabby. The mics were there, so you used them

For me, SM91's are hits or misses. That's why I try to add another mic to the kick. I get the attack from the SM91 and the rest from the additional mic.
Old 27th November 2002
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah I prefer to add another mic to the 91 but I didn't have time. I've found if I compress the crap out them I can get a decent sound.

The guy was playing a Noble & Cooley kit with a 17 x 22 kick. When it comes to drums it just doesn't get any better than N&c, plus the guy's a great player.

Now that I think about it, that has more to do with my getting a decent result than anything. All the players were top notch, they know how to be dynamic and get a great tone without killing the room.
Old 28th November 2002
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Tubelover -

which neumann stereo mic did you have for the room?

how did you have in placed in the room and how did you fit it into your mix? Did you start your mix around the stereo pair, did you eq the heck out of the stereo pair to use it more punch and air, or did you just use it in moderate does

keep us posted man
Old 28th November 2002
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Jay the Neumann stereo mic is one that few people use because it's really designed as a mic for ENG, as in Electronic News Gathering. Of course the rediculous price for the mic means that few people doing ENG buy one.

I keep my recording business in business by doing mutli-media work and I use this mic when shooting video. It's great for just about anything though, it is perfect for when I have little time for setup or I'm not in the best spot in the room. I can sit down put some headphones on and switch through it's pickup pattern and quickly get the sound I prefer.

The mic has the typical bump of a Neumann and so I do e.q. it quite a bit. I roll off some high end too to warm up the natural reverb of the room.

I also use pairs of DPA 4012s for stereo but there wasn't time to set them up. This was really a quick and dirty setup.
Old 29th November 2002
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Tubelover - the link for the mic didn't work. Is it a RSM-191?

thinking about it, a stereo shotgun could come in handy for a few things - including easy one mic crowd pickup

how do you like your DPA 4012s? usually go ORFT with them or XY?
Old 29th November 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hmm, I just clicked the link and it says the server is too busy, that's odd.

Yes the RSM-191 is the mic.

I've only tried the DPAs in an XY config, I'm going to try ORFT when I can put another pair of mics in XY at the same time. Hopefully I'll learn somthing by doing that.

What have you tried for stereo micing ?
Old 29th November 2002
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Tubelover

What have you tried for stereo micing ?
usually use a pair of schoeps cmc6/mk4-v's

the DPA's are great for certain things, although at times can be "too flat" and bland.

have heard some really good sounds with the 4011 used upclose on acoustic guitars, kicks, and bass even - use the ruler flatness to an advantage rather than filters...
Old 29th November 2002
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Yes it's true, the DPAs are truly flat. That's why they're often the reference standard for Classical recordings. I've had great results with them on piano, flute, acoustic guitar, cello and bass. The 4012s are the same as the 4011 but with an incredibly high SPL tolerance. Run through my Avalon M5s they record a high end detail that nothing else I've used even comes close to.
Old 29th November 2002
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Tubelover
Yes it's true, the DPAs are truly flat. That's why they're often the reference standard for Classical recordings.
Yeah, they are great in that application. The classical cats often are very adimant about certain mics. Some swear by DPAs, and the other half swear by Schoeps. Seems the largest debate is over what omnis are the best, DPA makes some killer high voltage stuff, and schoeps makes 4 versions of their omni capsules designed for different placements in relation to the reverberation axis of the soundfiled.

Quote:
Run through my Avalon M5s they record a high end detail that nothing else I've used even comes close to.
Where are you located? The schoeps mk4-v capsule has slight high frequency emphasis. Would be great to do some "shootout" stuff in both stereo and mono applications between the DPA and Schoeps, in a controlled environment
Old 30th November 2002
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Jay it would be great to do a comparison. However I'm in Southern California, so unless you've got a gig out here it doesn't seem likely.
Old 13th March 2012
  #16
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
For stereo room I use Soundfield SPS422. For close mic I either use RE20 or even PZM Gulex
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