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Solo cello: All of Bach
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Solo cello: All of Bach

Of course we always expect exemplary video and audio for the All of Bach (Netherlands Bach Society) series...and this latest doesn't disappoint !

in the opening minute you might decide you've got the (simple) miking all figured out ? Go to 3:48 for the full story

https://youtu.be/5gLfdQNHl_Y


Video description.....

After the dark Cello Suite no. 2, this Cello Suite no. 3 in C major is a continuation of the good-humoured tone of no. 1, although its mood is one of even cockier self-assurance. Cellist Colin Carr sees the six suites as “Bach’s children at various stages of life”. Could no. 3 symbolise an overconfident student?

In style with the character of the Suite and as part of the talent development projects of the Netherlands Bach Society, for this recording we worked with cellists and baroque cellists of the future. Six very talented Dutch youngsters under the age of eighteen were selected from auditions. Each cellist rehearsed their own movement from Suite No. 3, which they then recorded for All of Bach.

Recorded for the project All of Bach on 23 April 2022 at Haarlem Baptist Church. If you want to help us complete All of Bach, please subscribe to our channel https://bit.ly/2vhCeFB and consider donating https://bit.ly/3J5uprM.

For the masterclass by Lucia Swarts for the six young cello talents go to https://youtu.be/MxAaWuz7sos
For more information on BWV 1009 and this production go to
https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/...

All of Bach is a project of the Netherlands Bach Society, offering high-quality film recordings of the works by Johann Sebastian Bach, performed by the Netherlands Bach Society and its guest musicians. Visit our free online treasury for more videos and background material on https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/allo.... For concert dates and tickets go to https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/conc....

Valentijn Jeukendrup, Sofia Boisvert, Thijmen Tempelaars, Mudrė Buckutė, Arda Naci en Joshua Hassler-Forest, cello
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
...and for an example of discreetly flown mics that would win the hearts of videographers everywhere (without compromising audio pickup one iota....)

https://youtu.be/N6sUlZa-IrU
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Yes, very nice sound !

Which mics it could be ? Some ORTF position ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek ➡️
Yes, very nice sound !

Which mics it could be ? Some ORTF position ?
For the cello recordings, the engineer involved mentioned the mix was mainly the overhead DPA4006, plus a little of the close tube mics …‘and some processing’ (presumably EQ and reverb, perhaps ambient noise removal also ?)

Last edited by studer58; 4 weeks ago at 03:58 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
For the cello recordings, the engineer involved mentioned the mix was mainly the overhead DPA4006, plus a little of the close tube mics …‘and some processing’ (presumably EQ and reverb, perhaps ambient noise removal also ?)
Wonderful. Where did you find the technical info? I wonder if any of our Dutch GS members have been involved with All of Bach...some background technical discussion would be welcome.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6
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apotheosis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad ➡️
Wonderful. Where did you find the technical info? I wonder if any of our Dutch GS members have been involved with All of Bach...some background technical discussion would be welcome.
I can only comment on my two solo recordings at home where I could watch the setup and recording process closely:
Close-miked in something NOS-like (slightly more narrow angle) setup with two Schoeps MK4 into Millennia preamps into Merging interface and Pyramix. Altiverb to taste, some EQ and definitely some noise removal.
I guess, with the same engineer for most AoB recordings, that apart from the mikes the post-production chain would be quite similar, and quite standard I would say.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #7
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis ➡️
...I guess, with the same engineer for most AoB recordings, that apart from the mikes the post-production chain would be quite similar, and quite standard I would say.
Agreed Korneel. The overhead array is probably quite standard. I imagine the cardioids are NOS, given that this is the Netherlands. I would be interested in what the two LDC spots are and, if multi-pattern, which pattern is selected. I think the recording is very good and I would love to hear it without the lossy compression.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
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You can clearly see the Schoeps MSTC ORTF mic in between the straight 4006 pair and then the spots are probably a Heijnis tube.
https://youtu.be/5gLfdQNHl_Y?t=1139
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Hmm, so at least 6 microphones for one solo instrument I wonder how they mix it ... Whenever I tried to use more mics than stereo pair on one instrument it never sounded better than the stereo pair alone
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
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David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Nicely recorded and shot! I know this piece very well, of course, and these young cellists play it excellently and with fine musical insight. I was surprised to see so many baroque bows in use -- they're rare among American cellists -- but they make certain things much easier.

That mic setup is pretty easy to understand. The engineer might not have known exactly what he needed when flying the mains, so deployed both a near-coincident pair of Schoeps and a spaced pair of DPA's. This gave him the option of using either pair, or some combination of both. Such strategies have been widely discussed here. The use of a closely-spaced pair instead of single spot mic is also a standard technique. As @ Plush has explained previously in this forum, they will be panned hard left and hard right; their narrow spacing will give a bit of width without occupying the whole sound stage and they can be mixed fairly high when required without collapsing the image to mono. The Sonodor mics mentioned by @ David Spearritt have continuously-variable polar pattern. This feature is tremendously helpful when spotting cello because you can widen the pattern until the proximity effect is tamed and the lower strings sit exactly right. (That's quite important in the C Major Prelude, where there's an open-G pedal tone beginning in measure 45.)

David L. Rick

Last edited by David Rick; 4 weeks ago at 10:29 PM.. Reason: hyphen added to prevent false link
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➡️
…. The use of a closely-spaced pair instead of single spot mic is also a standard technique. As @ Plush has explained previously in this forum, they will be panned hard left and hard right; their narrow spacing will give a bit of width without occupying the whole sound stage and they can be mixed fairly high when required without collapsing the image to mono. ….David L. Rick
Plush (and the Decca/Classical recording book) in fact advocate panning in the closer parallel spot mic pair to around 9-11am and 1-3pm (analog clockface!) to float the instrument image into a ‘fat mono’ dimension …rather than either hard panning right and left, or employing a single mono spot.

The skill is in minimizing the predictable and expected phase cancellation that results from such in-panning….accomplished by ensuring that the spot proportion is suitably low in relation to the main pair.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for this link!

I have been doing quite a bit of Bach solo suites in the past years, so I was very much interested in these recordings.

I have experimented a lot, and in the end my favourite balance was acquired by having the main array poiting at the north side of the keys of the cello and under a straigt 90 degrees angle. Depending on the instrument, strings and bow, I sometimes move the array some 15 to 20 degrees to the right, which makes the sound a little mellower.

I also use two DPA4006a, but somewhat closer together because I tend to go considerably closer to the instrument (between 100 and 150 cm. depending on the acoustics). Often I add a (quasi) blumlein in the middle.

For my taste I find the sound in this video a bit on the too dark side. It could use a bit more higher frequencies and a bit more sparkle and dynamics. But that is very subjective of course, and with video one cannot hide my preferred positioning.

As to the use of gut strings and baroque bows, I have come so much accustomed to it, that it has become difficult to hear these suites otherwise.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_G ➡️
...I have experimented a lot, and in the end my favourite balance was acquired by having the main array pointing at the north side of the keys of the cello and under a straight 90 degrees angle.
I am sorry, but I am having a hard time understanding what you are saying here. A picture, they say, is worth a thousand words - perhaps a sketch or a photo?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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Lunar Attic's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I think most of the Cello Suites (if not everything for AoB) were recorded, edited and mixed by Guido Tichelman of Azazello Classical Music Recording in Haarlem The Netherlands.

My personal favorite is No 5 by Hidemi Suzuki;




T
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