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The looming DSD apocalypse
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Well, Berlin Philharmonic did record the Brahms Symphony cycle with two-track direct to LP lacquer cutter in 2014, no editing, no mastering, no nothing in between. The set comes in 6 LPs for 500 euros.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...r-simon-rattle
I've got the 44-16 WAVs of these. It sounds good.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #62
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Well, Berlin Philharmonic did record the Brahms Symphony cycle with two-track direct to LP lacquer cutter in 2014, no editing, no mastering, no nothing in between. The set comes in 6 LPs for 500 euros.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...r-simon-rattle
Just when you thought nobody could play the Brahms First any faster than Dorati's lightning version on MLP...
--scott
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #63
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Rainer Maillard from Emil Berliner Studios is in charge of those Berlin Phil. direct to disc recordings. I bought the LP set right when it came out. I recall it was $125 then. Sounds fantastic and is a 2 mic m/s recording.

Also DIG Berliner Meister Schallplatten productions-also under the aegis of Rainer Maillard and Stephan Flock, former head of tech. dept. at DG. Their gypsy music recording is highly recommended.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #64
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Well, Berlin Philharmonic did record the Brahms Symphony cycle with two-track direct to LP lacquer cutter in 2014, no editing, no mastering, no nothing in between. The set comes in 6 LPs for 500 euros.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...r-simon-rattle
Yes that's the Sheffield spirit brought up to date for sure ! 3 cheers to all those involved in that exercise...talk about living and working in the moment, and committing 100% to the result !

We all know it represents but a tiny blip on the radar of commercial releases, but it is the BPO after all, not a bunch of unknown amateur hacks...so it's reasonable to expect that they would deliver high-quality playing, worthy of preserving this way.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #65
iFi audio
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➡️
Um, well...

I'm reminded of this Jackson Browne lyric, "And while the future's there for anyone to change, still you know it's seems, it would be easier sometimes to change the past..."

That just about hits the nail with a sledgehammer; if there's a mod to turn my Alesis HD24xr into a DSD recording machine, and then Digital Performer 10 would work with the files, and people could suddenly play Super Audio CD's (oh, right, the burner that would create them), I would plunge in heedlessly with malice aforethought... until that day I think I will do the best I can with a hybrid approach?
They don't write lyrics like that no more....no, seriously they don't! Haha. Hybrid approach seems to be the name of the game these days. That's what I liked in music school where I'd burn Jazz/Blues CDs to an iPod so I could listen on a device that wouldn't have me texting and distracted. Even work-from-home, many places are resorting to hybrid times in office, others at home.

Needless to say, DSD is certainly a favorable option to listeners with systems looking for better resolution or maybe just another file format to try out. Looming DSD revolution? I think DSD would have to have a push through a popular streaming platform of sorts. I don't believe avid music listeners will wake up one day and ask about DSD files.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #66
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
I've got the 44-16 WAVs of these. It sounds good.

Glad to know. May be, I will buy a copy one day.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
a single crossed pair of Sennheiser MKH800 Twin condenser microphones in a classic Blumlein array,
from AnalogPlanet:
“In choosing to record a symphony orchestra with but a single stereo pair of microphones, the producer is attempting to correctly present the orchestra spatially in three-dimensions. In other words, you should be able to sit down, put on one of these sides, and assuming your system is reasonably time and phase coherent, experience the sensation of orchestral near “virtual reality” with but two stereo speakers.”
NOPE. The LP record is a m/s recording and the cd is a Blumlein recording.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #68
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
really wanted this in 2016: "The AK Recorder is the first portable recorder product in the world that supports DSD 5.6MHz recording"
AK Recorder

Last edited by surflounge; 2 weeks ago at 05:03 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #69
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
NOPE. The LP record is a m/s recording and the cd is a Blumlein recording.
OK thanks. Do you know what was used for the M/S setup? Interested for modern purposes of remote M/S recording. thanks
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #70
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
really wanted this in 2016: "The AK Recorder is the first portable recorder product in the world that supports DSD 5.6MHz recording"
I thought the Korg MR-1000 had this beat by nearly a decade as the first "portable recorder product" supporting DSD 5.6 MHz. It came out in 2007.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #71
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
High-resolution PCM and DSD formats require a lot of data storage. The 16/44.1 PCM format stores 90 minutes of audio per gigabyte, whereas 24/96 manages 25 minutes and 24/192 is only 13 minutes. In DSD mode, the 2.8MHz format gives 22 minutes of audio per gigabyte, while the 5.6MHz format gives 11 minutes.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
not battery powered
Wrong. It takes a bunch of AA batteries (the battery compartment is visible on the top of the unit in the photo you posted) and can record for a few hours with them.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #73
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
Wrong. It takes a bunch of AA batteries (the battery compartment is visible on the top of the unit in the photo you posted) and can record for a few hours with them.
thanks, missed that. And missed buying any of the Korg, Tascam, Sony, or other DSD recorders. Really wanted to have a portable remote stereo DSD recording service
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
thanks, missed that. And missed buying any of the Korg, Tascam, Sony, or other DSD recorders. Really wanted to have a portable remote stereo DSD recording service
I still have and regularly use my Korg MR-1000, amazingly the original hard disk is still going strong after almost 15 years of use although I know I'm living on borrowed time so I don't use it for anything critical. It can't be retrofitted with an SSD and replacement hard disks (which are the same disks Apple used for the original iPod) are getting hard to find.

I did loads of DSD recordings with it but ended up switching to 24/96 PCM because I couldn't hear enough difference to warrant the hassles and file sizes of DSD.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #75
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
I did loads of DSD recordings with it but ended up switching to 24/96 PCM because I couldn't hear enough difference to warrant the hassles and file sizes of DSD.
that is my dilemma, to offer compatable 24/96, or to offer bragging rights for DSD on location. You are right about not hearing enough difference, but I wanted to impress on set by being Mr. Bigshot with DSD, but then what would the clients do with it? I don't edit in post. Thanks for your info about reality
Old 2 weeks ago
  #76
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I ain't missing it this time. Just bought new KORG MR-2000SBK SSD on Amazon
Now need some remote power and preamps (and a couple great microphones)
No more DSD apocalypse

Last edited by surflounge; 2 weeks ago at 05:16 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #77
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
not that i'm still into dsd...

(but a friend of mine is thinking about it)

...so does anyone know of an affordable (relatively speaking), portable (meaning not too bulky/heavy) multichannel dsd recorder, suitable for recording up to12 channels?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
that is my dilemma, to offer compatable 24/96, or to offer bragging rights for DSD on location. You are right about not hearing enough difference, but I wanted to impress on set by being Mr. Bigshot with DSD, but then what would the clients do with it? I don't edit in post. Thanks for your info about reality
The thing is, there's a market for DSD. And if it's direct, live, unedited, that's probably icing on the cake for some people. Whether it's rational or not doesn't matter: if people are willing to pay for it and the technology exists, it can be a viable enterprise. If you sell recordings that are billed as one take, no edits, that's easiest since it avoids the whole conundrum of how to edit DSD.

I have a little recording rig that can do both: it's an analog mixer with multiple outputs (dedicated outs for each channel plus multiple outs for the stereo mix) so I can record PCM and DSD and sometimes I do...simply because I can.

There's a camera lens designer in Japan named Miyazaki who designs and manufactures his own lenses by hand in limited runs, in his basement. They have many technical flaws (which means lots of character) and are not very well made. But because they are designed and made by hand by a solo craftsman in his 80s, in his basement shop, there's a mystique about them that corresponds to high prices and high demand. He has created a niche for himself that's very profitable.

DSD is like that. Some people want it and are willing to pay a premium for it. If you want to serve that market, you could probably make some money from it even if you yourself can't hear any difference between DSD and high-resolution PCM (or even 44.1kHz/16 bit PCM for that matter).
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #79
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
If you sell recordings that are billed as one take, no edits, that's easiest since it avoids the whole conundrum of how to edit DSD.
For low dynamic range recordings this is feasible. But for classical where the dynamic and /or performance can go feral, the final recording may be too quiet and the listener will be changing volume. No good in a car either.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #80
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surflounge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
not that i'm still into dsd...

(but a friend of mine is thinking about it)

...so does anyone know of an affordable (relatively speaking), portable (meaning not too bulky/heavy) multichannel dsd recorder, suitable for recording up to12 channels?
you can master/slave the tascam-da-3000 or the Korgs
through their SPDIFs

Last edited by surflounge; 2 weeks ago at 11:52 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #81
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by surflounge ➡️
you can slave the tascam-da-3000 or the Korgs
thx - i knew this could be done...

...but that's at the opposite end of what my collegue wants.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
For low dynamic range recordings this is feasible. But for classical where the dynamic and /or performance can go feral, the final recording may be too quiet and the listener will be changing volume. No good in a car either.
But how did the direct-to-vinyl folks do it? Presumably they had the score, knew the music, and perhaps they rode the faders to compensate? You could do the same with DSD if you have a mixer in front of the recorder.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
But how did the direct-to-vinyl folks do it? Presumably they had the score, knew the music, and perhaps they rode the faders to compensate? You could do the same with DSD if you have a mixer in front of the recorder.
Yes and perhaps they did this. But then again the Direct to Disc recordings I had, Thelma Houston, Harry James, and a few others are still all pretty low dynamic range recordings. Pop and Jazz rarely gets above 20dB of dynamic range.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Re: DSD I'm told its not a great archiving format, it maybe a release format only because its multichannel capable, but no-one I know, audiophiles or orchestral and chamber musicians is even slightly interested in surround for music in the home. Everyone prefers real concerts. I spent quite a lot on becoming DSD recording capable but no takers in nearly 10 years. So I am still a bit doubtful a market is there. I like the sound of it, but then I like the sound of unmangled hi-res PCM too.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
What ever happened to the tie-breaking McGill DSD vs PCM research project. Has it died from disinterest? I guess they had terabytes of data to blind test and the researchers probably decided they would rather go to the pub instead.
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