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Classical violinist seeking recording advice/gear to useI
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #61
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pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by M50k ➡️
Indeed - the discouragement of people to publicly perform beautiful music, just because that are bad at fund-raising, just takes my breath away, and makes me quite sad, actually.
that's not what he was saying, he was talking about the de-professionalisation of music and how it's destroying the industry, also music is a business as well as an artform, you can make money from it.
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️
we still have travel agents in the UK
yes, and that desert island trip isn't going to book itself!

I've got two tickets to paradise...
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #63
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️
that's not what he was saying, he was talking about the de-professionalisation of music and how it's destroying the industry, also music is a business as well as an artform, you can make money from it.
de-professionalisation? that is simply nonsense: there are more and more professionally trained musicians/ensembles today; the same applies to technicians - in other words: there is more competition!

in particular a younger generation of technicians is no longer intimidated by a pseudo-elitist meritocracy and is looking for ways to pursue its goals that are appropriate to its time; this may involve marketing measures to which an older generation is not accustomed, or not to the same extent: 'fake it (aka work for free) until you make it!'

the fact that an ambitious amateur technician can also achieve excellent results is not new: pro-gear has become affordable decades ago and after all, it is neither rocket science nor witchcraft what we do!
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #64
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️
that's not what he was saying, he was talking about the de-professionalisation of music and how it's destroying the industry, also music is a business as well as an artform, you can make money from it.
I was referring to his suggestion that groups that can't raise enough money to hire a top engineer should go out of business. Quote: "The groups you speak about should go out of business since there are too many groups chasing similar funding."
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #65
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🎧 10 years
There is an old adage that says,
"If you're prepared to work for nothing, you'll steal".

On a few occasions I've found that to be true.
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
de-professionalisation? that is simply nonsense: there are more and more professionally trained musicians/ensembles today; the same applies to technicians - in other words: there is more competition!

in particular a younger generation of technicians is no longer intimidated by a pseudo-elitist meritocracy and is looking for ways to pursue its goals that are appropriate to its time; this may involve marketing measures to which an older generation is not accustomed, or not to the same extent: 'fake it (aka work for free) until you make it!'

the fact that an ambitious amateur technician cannot also achieve excellent results is not new: pro-gear has become affordable decades ago and after all, it is neither rocket science nor witchcraft what we do!
You know deedeeyeah, there are young capable players leaving college and wishing to take up a career as professional players in the UK, but in one area, that of the theatre orchestra, which should be a mainstay for many professionals, openings are being occupied by non-professionals that have other well paid jobs. I've seen the likes of accountants, architects, bank managers, barristers, doctors - all doing it for less and as a hobby. Meanwhile professionals and college graduates are just undable able to do those jobs, because they're taken.
It's far from being an ideal situation in the UK. They often work for below the minimum union rate, which is no longer enforceable, because that's what they are offered,
The Musicians' Union seems incapable of doing anything about it, it seems that it is almost accepted as being the norm. It's a grave concern for a lot of UK musicians who work in that field.
There's a lot of cross over between musical genres in the UK, so it affects all musicians at some time or another, but mainly those who primarily work in theatre.
The young college leavers have to gravitate toward teaching, and then the cycle starts all over again.
The flies in the ointment are those who already have well paid careers occupying jobs that rightly belong to those who have studied for them, and professionals who are eminently capable of excelling in the job.

Last edited by Geoff Poulton; 27th May 2022 at 07:09 PM..
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #67
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton ➡️
You know deedeeyeah, there are young capable players leaving college and wishing to take up a career as professional players in the UK, but in one area, that of the theatre orchestra, which should be a mainstay for many professionals, openings are being occupied by non-professionals that have other well paid jobs.
It's far from being an ideal situation in the UK. They often work for below the minimum union rate, which is no longer enforceable. The Musicians' Union is incapable of doing anything about it, and it's a grave concern for a lot of UK musicians who work in that field.
There's a lot of cross over between musical genres in the UK, so it affects all musicians at some time or another, but mainly those who primarily work in theatre.
The young college leavers gravitate toward teaching, and then the cycle starts all over again.
you will know way better than i what has led to this particular circumstance in this particular environment in your country - i only object to the claim of a generic 'de-professionalisation' of our industry: the opposite is true! and this literally at every stage of production, before the mics and behind the desk.


___



[what the consequences of this are and how we assess them is something we can certainly talk about for a long time; there will also be major local differences, which we cannot assess due to a lack of comparisons or because we are not affected...
however, to use a negative assessment of a typical phenomenon as an excuse to advise someone against entering our sector to me does not seem to be a respectable attitude and imo testifies to a rather paternalistic attitude - be it just to counterbalance this, i'd like to repeat my view on things: op, welcome to our club! just ask anything you want to know and i will try to answer to the best of my knowledge and belief.]
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #68
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Poulton ➡️
You know deedeeyeah, there are young capable players leaving college and wishing to take up a career as professional players in the UK, but in one area, that of the theatre orchestra, which should be a mainstay for many professionals, openings are being occupied by non-professionals that have other well paid jobs. I've seen the likes of accountants, architects, bank managers, barristers, doctors - all doing it for less and as a hobby. Meanwhile professionals and college graduates are just undable able to do those jobs, because they're taken.
It's far from being an ideal situation in the UK. They often work for below the minimum union rate, which is no longer enforceable, because that's what they are offered,
The Musicians' Union seems incapable of doing anything about it, it seems that it is almost accepted as being the norm. It's a grave concern for a lot of UK musicians who work in that field.
There's a lot of cross over between musical genres in the UK, so it affects all musicians at some time or another, but mainly those who primarily work in theatre.
The young college leavers have to gravitate toward teaching, and then the cycle starts all over again.
The flies in the ointment are those who already have well paid careers occupying jobs that rightly belong to those who have studied for them, and professionals who are eminently capable of excelling in the job.
You're making a false equivalency between musicians and engineers - the situations being discussed are not really analogous.
Old 27th May 2022 | Show parent
  #69
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🎧 10 years
OK - but there's no need for bad language! ;-)
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #70
Here for the gear
 
I play in one of those amateur orchestras. Our members are software engineers, project managers, medical professionals, university professors, IT engineers, retail salespeople, and church music directors. I sometimes sub in another, similar amateur orchestra with a much bigger budget but which produces music of comparable quality.

The notion that we are doing something wicked and wrong paying dues/registration to the community college so that we have access to the hall, so that we can enjoy playing Tschaikovsky, Mahler, or Vaughan-Wiliams works blows me away. I cannot fathom the notion that someone would think that this was fundamentally wrong. We're pretty good, but we're not the San Francisco Symphony, and nobody I know thinks we are.

I cannot fathom the notion that me getting together with friends from the symphony and reading chamber music for ourselves is in some way EVIL. If I record myself and my friends, that is somehow terrible? I'm not recording for Naxos or Sony, I'm making a recording to e-mail to my friends or send to my nephews on a thumb drive.

I could rant, but I'll leave it at that.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #71
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan H ➡️
I cannot fathom the notion that me getting together with friends from the symphony and reading chamber music for ourselves is in some way EVIL. If I record myself and my friends, that is somehow terrible? I'm not recording for Naxos or Sony, I'm making a recording to e-mail to my friends or send to my nephews on a thumb drive.

I could rant, but I'll leave it at that.
In fact, get yourself a 32 bit float recorder and that will strip away yet another 'necessary skill' (level setting) separating the pro recordists from the amateurs....is nothing sacred these days !
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #72
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Reading comprehension is low here. I need to correct posts which distort what I wrote and put words in my mouth that I never said.

I said that groups that are unable to raise enough money to sustain themselves should go out of business. I said nothing about them not having money to hire a pro engineer.

A bad recording is a sad thing. It could have been much better but instead cheapies make a recording that is “good enough.”

Good enough for giving a bright Chinese tone to their recording because they went to Gtr. Cntr. and bought a $299 shaver. These recordists suck as does their recorded product. I have zero respect for these cheapies.

Of course they do not look for respect from me. But they do post this shid on GS looking for accolades.

They uphold the new watchword. “Good Enough”

This happens because fewer and fewer people can make any living from playing music. The do it yourself mantra leads to a shid recording. Never post shid in public.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #73
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🎧 15 years
I attend 2 forums mostly read by professionals in the recording world, and on both a common response to a someone who appears to be a newbie amateur asking a decent (ie not stupid or demeaning) question is often " hire a professional". I almost always agree with this sentiment--I've supported myself by sound recording for 47 years now, but also always figure that that response is ultimately just smoke-blowing. No one who really wants to do what they have asked about will be deterred by such an answer, including the sort of severe, well-reasoned lecture that Plush can deliver. So why bother with an answer like that? It just gets everyone even more riled up about the sad state of everything. If you don't wish to support that newb then don't answer their questions here.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #74
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
In fact, get yourself a 32 bit float recorder and that will strip away yet another 'necessary skill' (level setting) separating the pro recordists from the amateurs....is nothing sacred these days !
Incredibly...I know, I know....it's hard to believe...

but I actually know what "clipping" is and how to twiddle knobs on mic pre-amps to avoid it. I actually know how to put on a pair of headphones and listen to what's coming into my DAW and make basic adjustments. See, I remember what used to happen to the sound recorded on my old tape decks when the needles went ~bang~ all the way to the top of the dial. I'm a beginner (relative to the experience level of many folks on this forum) but I've got enough experience that I've made a few egregious mistakes and had to re-do stuff.....clipping being one of them. So setting levels isn't beyond me....though Lord knows I'm sure I'll get caught out again, someday.

I suspect I might be missing some humor-ful leg-pulling in your post, though.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #75
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Reading comprehension is low here. I need to correct posts which distort what I wrote and put words in my mouth that I never said.

I said that groups that are unable to raise enough money to sustain themselves should go out of business. I said nothing about them not having money to hire a pro engineer.

A bad recording is a sad thing. It could have been much better but instead cheapies make a recording that is “good enough.”

Good enough for giving a bright Chinese tone to their recording because they went to Gtr. Cntr. and bought a $299 shaver. These recordists suck as does their recorded product. I have zero respect for these cheapies.

Of course they do not look for respect from me. But they do post this shid on GS looking for accolades.

They uphold the new watchword. “Good Enough”

This happens because fewer and fewer people can make any living from playing music. The do it yourself mantra leads to a shid recording. Never post shid in public.
So this orchestra that I play in that doesn't release sonically magnificent recordings on major labels does in fact have some CD's available. They were recorded and marketed by a small local company. Fifteen-twenty years ago we sold a mess of them. Now those boxes of CD's sit and sit and sit and sit, concert after concert in the lobby and nobody buys them. The company who made them still has them on their online store, I understand they haven't sold any in years.

So where's our audience for recordings? The answer is.....YouTube. People listen to us on YouTube, if they don't come to the live concert. It bugs me that this is the only way we reach an audience that's not physically in the concert hall, but that's the reality of it. During the Pandemic, we streamed a few concerts, which of course had all the nightmare problems of latency and loss of quality that streaming entails. For two of the streaming events we hired a professional engineer, for a large amount of money. I saw the layout he set up. I drooled over all the shoeps microphones. There had to be $20,000 worth of microphones on that stage. I gawked at the 16 channel recorder piped into the computer that pushed the video and audio out into ~the internet~. We'd arranged with college IT to have a direct fiber link into the building switch and then gigabit fiber from there to the College main internet link...and you know what?

I sat in the lobby and the whole thing sucked.

The audio cut out. The video and audio weren't sync'ed. We paid a fancypants ~Audio Engineer~ a lot of money....twice....and got nothing for it that anybody wanted to listen to. Was it his fault that my connection and most other peoples connections couldn't handle the data stream? No...of course not. But we still paid a lot of money to a Pro and got nothing for it. TWICE.

Funny thing, for the third pandemic streaming broadcast, one of the guys in the trumpet section set up some of his prosumer-level microphones. You know, that $799 junk that you find so revolting. We had a cell phone with an accessory zoom lens in the sound booth instead of an array of cameras and operators. The end result still sucked, but it was actually better than what we paid thousands of dollars for. Why? Who knows, the ~Internet~ played nice that day. So what did we get for spending a couple thousand bucks on an ~~Audio Engineer~~? Answer: Nothing.

In this day and age of audiences very often depending on streaming services, I find your attitude of "only the best is acceptable" to be a little out of touch. Maybe you only record the Chicago Lyric Opera and the Chicago Symphony, I don't know. There will always be a place for "only the best is acceptable", but your opinion that there's NO place for anything BUT that.....well. I hope you enjoy your rarified world. You're lucky to be there, and I'm sure your highly-developed skills, honed over years of experience earned you that place. However, IMHO the attitude that ...."only the best is acceptable at any time".... is out of touch, unrealistic, and extremely limited.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #76
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Sorry, but I never said it had to be the best. I advocate that it should not be poor and that it has to be much better than “good enough.”
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Sorry, but I never said it had to be the best. I advocate that it should not be poor and that it has to be much better than “good enough.”
My position is that good enough is in fact...good enough. "Good enough" for the purpose intended makes sense.

There's no point in me hiring you, for example, esteemed and respected tonmeister, to come in with two assistants and $30,000 worth of kit to record little cousin Suzie's second-grade piano recital. In that case, my <$800 kit accompanied by Suzie's dad videoing the whole thing on his dslr is good enough. Suzie's mom and gramma are not going to care. Fifteen years from now, Suzie's fiancee will laugh at the video and recording and they'll love it. It was good enough for the intended purpose.

I wouldn't hire me and my rinkydink kit to record the Chicago Symphony and Martha Agerich. In that case, "good enough" requires a lot more kit and a tremendous lot more skill. They should call you, not me.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #78
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
You're the same poster who argued in a separate thread that it is not worth making a fantastic recording because low quality home listening habits (data compressed / poor hi-fi etc.) will not allow the listener to appreciate one's efforts.

Your same viewpoint continues here.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #79
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Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am not sure where this aversion for musicians wanting to learn to make decent recordings comes from. I started this way myself.

Beginning of the 90s, me and my future colleague found the average classical chamber music recording quality unbearable. So we started getting into recording ourselves. Of course, our first MS recording was mono with height information, but who cares, we were learning !

In my book, good enough is good enough. Many major releases are not good enough. I would advise my fellow professionals on this forum to rant against those.

I have another rant: why are so many of my colleagues flying from LA to record in Berlin, while a Berlin tonmeister flies off to another part of the world, etc. Simply to get the best ?

I say, ego and lazyness. There simply is no excuse not being able to find a good recording crew locally. The internet makes it quite easy to find them and listen to their recordings.

Global warming here we come !

I am not travelling anymore, mainly because there is no demand for me abroad. I could not care less, plenty of people there who are good enough. I don’t have the time to sit in airports and bother with customs anyway.

I am with the OP. Please feel welcome to ask ANY question on this forum. I do not see any problem with musicians learning how to record. It will help them make better recordings, even when they are recording with a genuine tonmeister. I have recorded several cds the musicians could have recorded themselves, but did not want to.

But do they have to pay 2k to get a 45 second clip for Facebook. Hell no !
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #80
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick ➡️
I am not sure where this aversion for musicians wanting to learn to make decent recordings comes from. I started this way myself.

Beginning of the 90s, me and my future colleague found the average classical chamber music recording quality unbearable. So we started getting into recording ourselves. Of course, our first MS recording was mono with height information, but who cares, we were learning !

In my book, good enough is good enough. Many major releases are not good enough. I would advise my fellow professionals on this forum to rant against those.

I have another rant: why are so many of my colleagues flying from LA to record in Berlin, while a Berlin tonmeister flies off to another part of the world, etc. Simply to get the best ?

I say, ego and lazyness. There simply is no excuse not being able to find a good recording crew locally. The internet makes it quite easy to find them and listen to their recordings.

Global warming here we come !

I am not travelling anymore, mainly because there is no demand for me abroad. I could not care less, plenty of people there who are good enough. I don’t have the time to sit in airports and bother with customs anyway.

I am with the OP. Please feel welcome to ask ANY question on this forum. I do not see any problem with musicians learning how to record. It will help them make better recordings, even when they are recording with a genuine tonmeister. I have recorded several cds the musicians could have recorded themselves, but did not want to.

But do they have to pay 2k to get a 45 second clip for Facebook. Hell no !
Funny story, somewhat in touch with this thread.

I my early days in the motion picture business, I got a job as the utility (assistant) on a big budget movie shooting in NYC. The production mixer was a fellow named Jim Webb, one of the most revered PSMs in Hollywood. Oscar winner (All The President's Men) and so on.

He was doing his last picture before he retired. I was a 26 year-old WIDE EYE.

We were sitting on the set, watching the camera crew set up their Panavision Platinum 35mm film camera, 1000' film magazine, some fast prime lens, a huge pile of dollar bills on a dolly.

He looked over at me and said, "Doug, they just don't make movies like they used to." I was slack jawed. This was what I dreamed of doing. So professional, so sophisticated, SO COOL.

I vowed at that moment that I would never speak those words, ever. So on the last episode of the silly TV series that I mixed before retiring from the movie business, I was actually heard to say those very words. "They don't make movies like they used to." The answer? Deal or get out. Same is true of the music recording business today. Record Plant Studios, NYC bit the dust many years ago because it just wasn't in demand. If you are a pro and you aren't in demand any more, deal with it or retire. It's never going back.

D.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #81
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
How dare you post your last line?

These do it yourselfers lower the beauty of music.

Last nite we had a live broadcast of the Chicago Symphony from an outdoor downtown music park.

Maestro Muti spoke to the audience about why music was valuable. His language included that it was worthwhile pursuing beauty and working toward musical beauty as the prime goal. A sort of ideal as spoken about by the Greeks.

So these do it yourselfers often do not work towards beauty.

It's not that I'm not in demand that drives my objections. It is because their pursuit is a crass pursuit, unworthy of what a real pro could do for them.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #82
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Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@ Remoteness : in the forum rules or description, could you please point out if this forum is for professionals only ?

If so, who qualifies ? I never got a degree in recording, so if that is needed, I will opt out of the forum !
Old 6 days ago
  #83
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David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Art and Commerce

If I may interject here, I think an important goal of this forum is to promote best-practices in location recording. That includes both operational reliability and artistic concerns -- "beauty", as Plush puts it. Recordings must serve the music, and recordists must serve the client! A foundational value here is that everyone should strive to make the best recordings they are able; this forum exists to help everyone raise the bar. Some of us come from an engineering background and others from a music background; many of us are mongrels of some sort. We all have things to learn from one another: technical folks can improve their knowledge of musical context and history to make better aesthetic decisions; musicians can improve their understanding of acoustics, microphone practice, and signal flow in pursuit of better captures.

The tension here comes because people are trying to make a living, either as recordists or performers, and that means there's money at stake on both sides. It's never only about art, it's also about commerce. If someone seems to be swimming in the wrong lane, try to understand that we're all swimming in the same direction and hoping to reach the other shore without drowning. Let's try to do that without kicking one another in the face.

Here's the thing: There's a lot more DIY in all professions these days, but it's not a new phenomenon. Desktop publishing upended many editing and design careers nearly forty years ago. Home studios became increasingly common over the same time period. One result has been many terrible-looking publications and many thoroughly awful records. Another result has been that we've had the opportunity to hear important artists and works that would otherwise have been silenced. We're all going to have opinions about what's good, what's bad, and what's mediocre. I think there's little value in pointing out the latter two categories because there's simply too much of it to bother. It's much better to point out what's really good and help more people to find and appreciate it. Pretty much everyone who makes good art started out by making bad art. Proper coaching can accelerate someone's development, but the most import thing is to be exposed to the very best and to try to understand what makes it so good. When we elevate the best examples or our art and practice, we are coaching. The alternative is "gatekeeping", and I think it's much less constructive.

I visited Chicago at the beginning of this month and spent a lot of time at the Art Institute of Chicago, where I saw a large Cezanne retrospective. Cezanne was originally shunned by the Paris art establishment. Despite that, he grew as an artist and that process can currently be seen through his work, shown chronologically in this exhibit, which culminates in several masterworks. The Art Institute of Chicago is founded on the idea that developing artists must have access to such masterworks for study. But their program of instruction continually requires to students to work far outside their chosen specializations. My daughter, skilled in illustration, was given a expensive camera and sent to roam the city. She was forced to edit video. She was made to sew and to use a circular saw. She did some of those those things decently and many of them badly. She never asked me for help with the Sound Devices deck and I'm happy I never heard her work. I think much of her time at the Institute was uncomfortable, inasmuch as she was doing terrible work and knew it. But something important happened in the time she spent there: she stopped being afraid of doing things. Meanwhile, I stopped being afraid of people doing bad work in fields not their own. I just want them to understand what good work looks/sounds like, and to care about the difference. That's what makes for appreciative customers!

Another thing I did in Chicago was to have an excellent lunch and good conversation with Plush. He is a lovely person and not nearly a prickly as he sometimes seems here. If I may be so bold as to summarize his views on this topic, I think they come down to this: 1) Always strive to do excellent work; 2) Never undersell yourself: charge what you are worth. Art and Commerce: same as it ever was!

Here's to Brahms! May we always serve him as best we are able... and may we get paid for the privilege, so that we can continue doing so.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 6 days ago
  #84
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
@ David Rick your posts reeks of someone who must be an excellent teacher. Wish I knew someone like you
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #85
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Remoteness tuning in...

First of all, this sub-forum, 'Remote Possibilities in Location Recording & Production' doesn't have forum rules, and it never will while I'm still the moderator. The idea is treat everyone like you would like to be treated, while welcoming all sorts of individuals from the newbies to the seasoned professionals.

The forum description states, "From Acoustic to Electric Music Environments & Beyond + Live Performance, Mobile/Location Production & Broadcasting. Moderated by Steve Remote of Aura Sonic Ltd. NYC, NY USA."

That's it, there's no mention of what level of expertise you should have or need to be part of this discussion group. I wouldn't have it any other way. All are welcomed.

I also have never received a degree in anything. I learned everything on the street.

Furthermore, I started my company, 'Aura-Sonic, Ltd.' in the late '70s when I was in my teens, and I have never looked back or worked for anyone else since then. I've made plenty of mistakes, and learned a lot from those mistakes. Perhaps, they are not mistakes, but lessons learned. Each and every day I learn something new. i do my best to keep my mind open, and my ears clear. I appreciate what everyone has to say about our industry no matter where they are on the ladder of success. Lessons learned can come from all sorts of different environments and people at any level of experience. This is how I've addressed my life and career, and how I like to run my forum.

There is no reason to opt out of this forum unless you want to for other reasons.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick ➡️
@ Remoteness : in the forum rules or description, could you please point out if this forum is for professionals only ?

If so, who qualifies ? I never got a degree in recording, so if that is needed, I will opt out of the forum !
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #86
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Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks Steve for the clarification.

It should go noted that people with a genuine interest for recorded sound should not be driven away from the forum by side-discussions about whether or not to hire the best or work for free etc.

Sometimes it must be about the gear and only the gear
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #87
Super Moderator
 
Remoteness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm with you on this.

Back in October 2002, this forum was created with the mindset that everyone is welcomed to participate, no matter what level of experience you are at.

I get paid handsomely, yet it has stop me from doing freebies or seriously discounted project from time to time.

For me, it has always been about the music and the gear that captures it.

Furthermore, constructive, informative replies are always welcomed here.

Let us engage in adult debate rather than the "other" stuff. There is no reason why anyone should subject themselves to any grief or get upset or annoyed by one person's commentary.

An enlightened way to discuss such issues would be to let people express their opinions and evaluate the opinions on their merit, rather than condemn the person expressing the opinion.

I mean, how do folks expect people to come on board and see their side or opinion when they're treated in such an off-putting manner?

Do they really think that lambasting, insulting and/or ridiculing them is the way to get them to listen to what you're saying?

Thank goodness there are a limited number of these individuals that frequent this forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick ➡️
Thanks Steve for the clarification.

It should go noted that people with a genuine interest for recorded sound should not be driven away from the forum by side-discussions about whether or not to hire the best or work for free etc.

Sometimes it must be about the gear and only the gear
Old 1 hour ago | Show parent
  #88
Here for the gear
 
Well written, David Rick!

I have another friend whose artistic work has nothing to do with recorded sound, and we constantly marvel at the wonderfully talented people who would never get any exposure at all outside of YouTube or "the internet" generally. Their work would be known to their immediate friends and then vanish. This technology has allowed us to view and listen to people we never would have been able to see, forty years ago! So while YouTube, Spotify and mp3's have their sonic downside, there's an upside, too.

The other thing that she and I share is a willingness to try anything. In her field, geometrical beadwork, 95% of the participants want to purchase a set of instructions and follow them letter by letter to reproduce whatever-it-is that they are making. The notion of making a mistake is just positively terrifying. The concept of failing in a creative endeavour, learning from the failure and making that failure a success is foreign to them. The notion of using their own imagination and seeing how things work by screwing them up, tearing it all apart and trying again, is horrifying. Yet that is exactly what your daughter was basically forced to do. Try, try, try again and wrap your imagination around a variety of problems until the fear of failure is irrelevant.

I think that's brilliant!

I'm sometimes accused of being brash and aggressive on other forums (mostly sailing, one of my other activities) because I tend to state opinions strongly. I also tend to write a lot! I've met people with whom I've "butted heads" on other forums to discover than in fact, I have a lot more in common with the people I've disagreed with, than I have grounds for disagreement. I rather expect that's the case, here.

You wrote this -- "If I may be so bold as to summarize his views on this topic, I think they come down to this: 1) Always strive to do excellent work; 2) Never undersell yourself: charge what you are worth. " ---

There's not much to argue with there!

I'm here to learn how to do this live recording stuff, better. I could settle for my old 1970s hobbyist microphones and my 80's Denon cassette deck (If I could find new, blank cassettes any more!) but because I can hear the difference between that and more contemporary equipment, well...I'm here to learn more about doing better. While I see the logic in doing something "good enough" for the purpose (see little Suzie's piano recital that I mentioned, above) I see no point in just doing something badly, when you COULD do it better....within reason, at least. Also, to quote the movie line..."A man has to know his limitations". Selling yourself for something that you're not is a disservice to everybody involved.

I'm reassured by the series of responses saying that this forum is for everyone who wants to learn.
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