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Jecklin or Schneider?
Old 1st May 2022
  #1
Jecklin or Schneider?

Hi, sorry if this has been covered before, but has anyone tried much of using Jecklin and/or Schneider disks? I'm probably going to get a Jecklin type, to use with matched Oktava MK-012 omni capsules. It'll be for a big stone church with choir, pipe organs at both ends of the building and maybe some other pairs over some kind of ensemble/quartet/mini-orchestra for some events.

I've seen the Schneider type with more or somehow different isolation of HF between mics. I gather that's mostly applicable to mics like the Schoeps or DPA and there's even a HF-accentuated Schoeps MK2H. As the MK-012's are if anything known for milder highs I'd probably use a Jecklin design.

Basically I want to try it, compare with the 40cm A-B results with the same mics and decide which I like. What I want as much as possible is to try and replicate the experience of sitting in about the middle of the hall with one pair. Also planning to "spot mic" the organs and/or choir with pairs of MK-012 cardioid in ORTF or X-Y on one of their SM-MSR stereo shock mounts and swivel adapters for the capsules. Yes, there's a vertical offset, I could live with that or use a stereo bar instead.It's just a nice, compact and elegant mounting though. I won't try to blend the A-B pair with any of those, I'd switch between pairs of mics for choir and organ performances. It's for a recording, not TV or whatever.

I'm interested to hear anyone's experiences with this type of isolation disk. Does anyone agree/disagree with my choice for those reasons? I also own 2 matched MK-105 LDC's, said to be a bit brighter/airier than most Oktava. I was thinking those in ORTF just below the Jecklin disc and omni pair for an alternative. I'd welcome any comments, experiences, stories or whatever about all this.
Old 1st May 2022
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I’ve used Jecklin many times. It is a it or miss technique, as it is not a very flexible one. It can sound mind blowing or amateurish depending on the acoustics. Having said that, some of my recordings I rate as best were made with the Jecklin It is often said that the technique needs a hf lift, but my experience shows that the same microphones in AB or with a Jecklin sound pretty similar. The disk tends to highlight what’s on the microphone’s axis, so you have to try subtle angle differences. Also, height differences seem to have more impact than usual.
Old 1st May 2022
  #3
Thanks, I hadn't known that before, just heard some recordings. Presumably they only publish the good ones The information about being on-axis, and maybe needing to experiment with height, sounds good. I would be trying to replicate an audience position so presumably recording from their height. Great, any more posts about this would be very welcome. If anyone has some *bad* isolation disc recordings that might be worth hearing too, there are enough carefully chosen good ones out there, I'm interested in what happens when it doesn't work so well and what is a reasonable back-up plan

WIth the mics I've got the LDC's in ORTF would be worth hearing too but I suspect a pair of cardioid SDC's might be better as a back-up. I'd have to try a test recording with any combination of gear before I committed to a production with it
Old 21st May 2022
  #4
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up

I have a Jecklin Disk and a Schneider Disk (both made by MB) - I tend to prefer the Schneider myself.

I have used them with the Sennehiser MKH 20 and the Gefell M221 omnis.
Old 21st May 2022
  #5
Thanks John, someone posted that there have been some developments, like an update to the Jecklin design, now 35cm. I wonder if instead of a disc something more like a human head's dimensions might be worth a shot, made of dense open-cell foam. It's not difficult to make something like that to experiment with. Without going to the Neumann binaural head extent, just something approximating the width and vague profile of the human noggin but shaped like a wheel of cheese, if that helps picture it. A thing that looks like a dead long-haired cat wouldn't look good at the conductor's position, say for the London Symphony Orchestra at a major concert.

I bought a stereo bar with 4 mounting points so I can have a pair of omni mics at 40cm spacing and something else in X-Y or ORTF on the inner pair. The omnis will be Oktava capsules on their mini-pre's, I'll experiment for the middle pair (I quite like MK-102 or MK-103 end-address LDC's too). Each pair will be there in the hope that at least one yields a decent result, or to be a backup for the other.
After buying other equipment recently I don't have the budget for KM84, DPA, Schoeps etc so Okkies it is for now. I would like to experiment with a Jecklin or Schneider disc (or foam cheese wheel shape... call it a Jarlsberg disk ) and those mics seem like a good starting point for me, until I've got enough such recordings under my belt to know what techniques I'd use with higher-end mics.

If this isolation disc technique does turn out to be hit-and-miss then good old A-B with omni mics would be a good system to default to, at least I know it'll usually give a result I can use. There's a Jecklin and a Schneider listed at Thomann but I could make variations to try out.
Old 31st May 2022 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
I have a Jecklin Disk and a Schneider Disk (both made by MB) - I tend to prefer the Schneider myself.

I have used them with the Sennehiser MKH 20 and the Gefell M221 omnis.
I often see people here and elsewhere claiming that one or the other is better suited to headphones vs speakers, or vice/versa - nonsense.

The Scheider is best thought of as a further refinement of the OSS concept - it does everything the Jecklin does, but a just a little better.

I'm surprised no one has come out with a Schneider with the larger OSS II dimensions.
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