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One mic
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
One mic

When @ hughshouse is right, he's right... sometimes you get a situation where the right number of mics is one. Gene Williams has been doing hour-long Facebook Live gospel shows with one mic every Sunday since the start of Covid. And knowing Gene as well as I do, I'm sure he has spent many more hours beating himself up over the things that weren't perfect.

So when he did a two-hour livestream from Kulak's Woodshed last Wednesday, he had his act pretty dialed-in.

https://www.facebook.com/kulakswoods...13358587087503
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
When @ hughshouse is right, he's right... sometimes you get a situation where the right number of mics is one. Gene Williams has been doing hour-long Facebook Live gospel shows with one mic every Sunday since the start of Covid. And knowing Gene as well as I do, I'm sure he has spent many more hours beating himself up over the things that weren't perfect.

So when he did a two-hour livestream from Kulak's Woodshed last Wednesday, he had his act pretty dialed-in.

https://www.facebook.com/kulakswoods...13358587087503
Is that a 414ULS? The vocal sounds good to me, both when speaking and singing. Wonder if he has any processing going on in the signal chain.

I will say that, having set up a livestream a couple times during Covid, I really appreciate the KISS method if only for reducing the chance of something going wrong.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tessitura ➡️
Is that a 414ULS? The vocal sounds good to me, both when speaking and singing. Wonder if he has any processing going on in the signal chain.

I will say that, having set up a livestream a couple times during Covid, I really appreciate the KISS method if only for reducing the chance of something going wrong.
414EB p48 nylon. Or Teflon, whichever. No processing other than some reverb and whatever the Facebook upload process does.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you for the kind words Brent: as you know this has been my preference for many years. Unfortunately some pickers generate too much superfluous string and pick noise and need to work with a DI for their instrument and a closed vocal mic. (like an SM7)
I firmly believe a good guitar that is played cleanly by a singer that is willing to spend the monitoring time to find their sweet spot with a high quality card pattern mic (like an AT 4060 or Flea47 next) can find tremendous SR and recording success.
Hugh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
One mic, but multiple cameras.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks ➡️
One mic, but multiple cameras.
Yep. Normally six cameras, but with the current audience-free protocol it's down to five.

Last edited by Brent Hahn; 2 weeks ago at 07:44 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Ive been 'one miking 'for years
Im lazy, but I often found good placement was better sounding than my multi mic mix.
All my victims always said it sounded exactly like their sound.
The object is convey emotion, not to wallow in tech imho.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
in terms of a realistic representation of a source in a medium sized room that isn't overly damped, any stereo mic system yields a more natural sound than a single mic, regardless of it's design/a single mic sounds more coloured; there's an impressive example on schoeps' site dealing with the topic.

schoeps is also selling a plug-in for 'upmixing' from mono to stereo; it works like wrapping a little envelope around the mic without adding too much room sound - highly recommended, not only on tracks recorded with schoeps mics!

when mixing live, i almost always use an efx device on a mono in/stereo out setting to mimic the effect of a stereo capture; another efx (which often gets fed from a pair of ambis) then adds artificial room as wanted.

___


maybe none of these methods is 'needed' for any genre that relies on an artificial soundstage anyway...
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
in terms of a realistic representation of a source in a medium sized room that isn't overly damped, any stereo mic system yields a more natural sound than a single mic, regardless of it's design/a single mic sounds more coloured; there's an impressive example on schoeps' site dealing with the topic.
Stereo-mic someone from that distance (maybe two feet) and you're going to hear it when they move around. If you watch the video, you'll notice that not only does Gene move around a bit, sometimes he's several degrees to one side of the other of the center of the pickup pattern. Stereo miking of that might be a realistic representation, but it's an aspect of the realism I don't want to hear.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
Stereo-mic someone from that distance (maybe two feet) and you're going to hear it when they move around. If you watch the video, you'll notice that not only does Gene move around a bit, sometimes he's several degrees to one side of the other of the center of the pickup pattern. Stereo miking of that might be a realistic representation, but it's an aspect of the realism I don't want to hear.
contrary to some classical folks, i don't use stereo spots on physically small sound sources either (for too many reasons to mention here) and my point isn't really about issues of a moving sound source in the stereo soundfield (which can get mitigated/depends on the mic system/technique and the panning scheme) but about the more natural ambient proportion of the sound which can either get achieved by using two mics or said 'upmixing' methods (and a few more technics/gear, detailed in other threads).

in short: i had only objected against the allegedly natural sound when using a single mic! - fair enough if you're not into realism (although the artifixal efx used in the video i find distracting/not well chosen)...
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
Stereo-mic someone from that distance (maybe two feet) and you're going to hear it when they move around. If you watch the video, you'll notice that not only does Gene move around a bit, sometimes he's several degrees to one side of the other of the center of the pickup pattern. Stereo miking of that might be a realistic representation, but it's an aspect of the realism I don't want to hear.
Could this be a situation where a single mic mid-side approach could help…fold it down to mid mic (more mono-ish) when the talent moves and creep a little more width back in when they’re centred…in typical gain-riding fashion ?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Could this be a situation where a single mic mid-side approach could help…fold it down to mid mic (more mono-ish) when the talent moves and creep a little more width back in when they’re centred…in typical gain-riding fashion ?
I suppose you could do that. In my particular case, though, I've never had much luck with m/s, and I'm very much a K.I.S.S. type. Also, the raw sound of that room is okay at best, not what I'd call a "feature."
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
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wildplum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
one mic or two- there is no pat answer, it depends on the situation and your goals.
Attached Thumbnails
One mic-beatles-micing-paul.jpg  
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I typically agree with DeeDee in micing protocol discussions: however this time I am squarely in Brent's corner. I have been recording flat top, steel strung guitars for more than 50 years and this is what I know:

1) Stereo micing of a guitar creates a bigger, "up front" soundstage however it does not sound "more natural" in any way.
2) Maintaining an appropriate (min. 12 inches) distance between the instrument sound hole and the mic becomes very difficult if any movement at all occurs with the player when stereo micing
3) The best protocol to avoid phasing issues is a single mic in most cases.

The skill and session ready experience of the performer is always the most important factor!
Hugh
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #15
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
i don't think we have a very different assessment...

... but i do differentiate with regard to one detail, namely the colouration of the room sound (which is part of the overall sound, along with direct sound and reflected sound) when using a single mic vs using pretty much any stereo mic:

- as far as direct sound is concerned, i completely agree that it is the most important part of the sound and in most cases we only need a single microphone to pick up a source (which is why i am mocking our friends from the classical field for their behaviour of putting up stereo spots on soloists).

- the same applies to the early reflections which are inevitably reproduced more strongly when using two microphones and are perceived disproportionately compared to the direct sound which sums fine when using coincident mics.

[btw: m/s is indeed preferred as the main mic then uses a forward orientation while with x/y or blumlein, both mics pick up sound off-axis which leads to some unnecessary colouration also of the direct sound (which becomes more noticeable when using ldc's)]

- however, the spatial component - empirically verifiable - is perceived as more 'natural' when picked up by two (or more) microphones!

[i'm even using stereo ambis in rooms which are (acoustically speaking) deemed subpar: i then mostly do not route their signals to the mix bus though but use them to feed just the efx device]

___


the advantages and disadvantages associated with each approach (mono vs stereo close mic on relatively small sources) presents us with a choice between pitch and sulphur; personally, i prefer alchemy over dogma and therefore use a variety of microphones in almost every situation, putting freedom of choice above simplicity, certainly in the studio but also quite often live, for location recording or when broadcasting.

IF using a stereo spot, my first choice is mostly a schoeps mk4v/mk8 but i occasionally also use the cmxy 4v (in contrast to above statement regarding the orientation of capsules...) or a pair of oc-818's in m/s - and then there are situations in which i can't get bothered with any of these toys and put up my refurbished u67 (and nothing else)!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
1 mic

Been doing one mic shows for many years,
One of my favorite mic's has been my Royer SF-12 stereo Ribbon.

Contrary to what has been said here, I love what they bring.
Colored or not, the recordings are absolutely beautiful, and the sense of space just make you feel like you're there,
Especially in a great venue!

Anyhow, this is an entirely different approach from the Royer.
Here's a link to one song from a series I'm working on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziSHFY91JdA

This is only one mic, albeit a nice one.

1 x Josephson C700S, with a bit of verb added, only cause the room we're in has NO sound. It's dead as a doornail.

A bit of verb on side channels, and a little compression because Frank
is a very, very dynamic player, and vocalist, as you will hear.

More to come.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
the royer and josephson are stereo mics, right?

if so, i feel confirmed in my opinion rather than challenged by a new argument...

(excellent performer btw!)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Dee,
Haha, yes they are both Stereo.

Although the C700S used in the video, has three capsules,
Omni, Cardiod, and a side facing Fig 8, wired to three outputs so you can manipulate the patterns in post.

Which I just prefer over just a mono capture.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler ➡️
Hey Dee,
Haha, yes they are both Stereo.

Although the C700S used in the video, has three capsules,
Omni, Cardiod, and a side facing Fig 8, wired to three outputs so you can manipulate the patterns in post.

Which I just prefer over just a mono capture.
C700S does not have a cardioid. It is two identical figure 8 capsules, oriented 90 degrees to one another, with an omni capsule between them. Sensitivity on the back (out of phase) side of the mid capsule decreases as you increase the amount of the omni in your mix.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 
esldude's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Good 700S explanation here.

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Josephson/C700S

And from the horse's mouth here:

http://www.josephson.com/pdf/srs7.pdf
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ou guys are correct, I mistakenly said carded, when there are a forward facing, and side facing Fig 8.
My mistake.

Either way, the mic is amazing for ease of operation, and single point capture.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Vertically spaced pair can be an option on single instruments. Especially with guitar, most of the player movement is side to side, so the same sweet spot for a single mic can work for vertically spaced pair (only a few inches).
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse ➡️
I typically agree with DeeDee in micing protocol discussions: however this time I am squarely in Brent's corner. I have been recording flat top, steel strung guitars for more than 50 years and this is what I know:

1) Stereo micing of a guitar creates a bigger, "up front" soundstage however it does not sound "more natural" in any way.
2) Maintaining an appropriate (min. 12 inches) distance between the instrument sound hole and the mic becomes very difficult if any movement at all occurs with the player when stereo micing
3) The best protocol to avoid phasing issues is a single mic in most cases.

The skill and session ready experience of the performer is always the most important factor!
Hugh
Don't worry. In my mastering studio, your one mic recording sounds very good indeed. Maybe you would have pleased DD if you would have put the tiniest amount of Bricasti stereo room on the mono mic, but hey, I am willing to admit this is nitpicking.

It sounds great as it is, and how many will just listen on small media anyway ? In which case the mono version will always translate better ...
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