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Double mid side? Well a variation with a quite different purpose...
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #31
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Hi Roland,

I am wondering, instead of MSM bundle, could you rig them to be MMS vertical bundle? That might be a better compromise, no?



Best,

Da-Hong
Hi Da-Hong,

JHeath suggested this in post #6 . Can't say that I am desperate to get the fig 8 near the edge of the blimp (wind is a real issue, far more significant than some of these more theoretical issues).

I'll do some more critical listening to both configurations I have tried, but suspect - as Doug (emrr) has said - that the practical impacts of either spacing or shadowing for the two different configurations are subtle to say the least.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #32
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
effects of an unorthodox mic arrangement depend on situation/orientation/distance: when used as relatively close positioned drum overheads (or on any other source with lots of transients or hf content), i care quite a bit about the mic's arrangement and no amount of delay nor all-pass filters will get you a tight image of a properly arranged m/s array.

however, outdoors, in a highly reverberant room or at large distance to the source, i doubt negative effects become much noticeable.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 2 weeks ago at 05:40 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolksoundman9 ➡️
Hi Da-Hong,

JHeath suggested this in post #6 . Can't say that I am desperate to get the fig 8 near the edge of the blimp (wind is a real issue, far more significant than some of these more theoretical issues).

I'll do some more critical listening to both configurations I have tried, but suspect - as Doug (emrr) has said - that the practical impacts of either spacing or shadowing for the two different configurations are subtle to say the least.

Cheers,

Roland

Personally, I don't do outdoor recordings. But, I thought most outdoor film/video sound guys use only hypercardioid as M, like the MKH406, or Schoeps MK41, so why bring on some un-necessary problems onto yourself? The post mixing guy probably won't touch anything but hypercardioid anyways.

Best,

Da-Hong
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #34
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Personally, I don't do outdoor recordings. But, I thought most outdoor film/video sound guys use only hypercardioid as M, like the MKH406, or Schoeps MK41, so why bring on some un-necessary problems onto yourself? The post mixing guy probably won't touch anything but hypercardioid anyways.

Best,

Da-Hong
Thanks for your concerns Da-Hong.

But 'post mixing guy'? It's all me. I'm not going to be using such an MMS set up that often, for sure, but I do quite a lot of outdoor recording of music, much quick and dirty by comparison to the work of many here (my examples on the blog post were relevant), and sound effects recording, and some more flexibility in those situations is useful and far from bringing some unnecessary problem on to myself!

And, of course, I am not at all alone: it is not for nothing that Rycote and Cinela, for example, make double mid-side (and other stereo) windshields.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Don't worry about adjacent shadowing
I ve tried every variety of MS placement with MKH 30/30/800 and cant perceive any anomalies
Many spacial arrays have bizarre bundling yet image well.
Roger
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #36
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks for the reassurance Roger. I thought that was your experience. Much appreciated!

Cheers,

Roland
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
Hi Roland,

Well, the wavelength of 6Khz is about 5.6cm. If the source is perfectly perpendicular to the microphones you should be fine. But, once the source is off axis, in your case, up or down, things can get ugly pretty fast. I understand this may or may not bother you, sonically. However, the comb filter effect is a learnt “hatred” that is very hard to un-learn.

When I setup MS, I do tape my MKH30 and 20 together, with a slice of double-sided adhesive tape between the two mics to keep the correct orientation. That is as close as I can mount the two mics. If either the MKH800 or the Twins are involved, unfortunately, the distance between the M and S will be greater than what I can do with the MKH30/20.

I used to use an AKGC414 figure8 and Schoeps mk2H with an elbow as my MS. That combo also offered me pretty close distance between them, about 2cm from center to center of the two capsules. It worked well enough. I prefer MKH30/20 much better.

Personally, I don’t use any LDC for most of my work. The couple of projects where I used U47 LDC they were spots for the vocal soloists.



Best,

Da-Hong
Hi Da-Hong, thank you for the double-sided tape tip, I've seen you do that before and just used it this weekend on a gig. Don't have a proper M/S rig yet but this certainly did the job! MKH30 + 4011.
Can I assume the 414 you prefer is modified? You've talked about simplifying the circuit on AKGs.
If you were just starting out would you seek out a 414 to modify or would you go the new Austrian Audio route?
Thanks, Jonathon
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimermonk ➡️
Hi Da-Hong, thank you for the double-sided tape tip, I've seen you do that before and just used it this weekend on a gig. Don't have a proper M/S rig yet but this certainly did the job! MKH30 + 4011.
Can I assume the 414 you prefer is modified? You've talked about simplifying the circuit on AKGs.
If you were just starting out would you seek out a 414 to modify or would you go the new Austrian Audio route?
Thanks, Jonathon
Hi Jonathan,

I wouldn't bother with AKG414 or any other LDC figure8 since you already have a MKH30.

I did two things to my414, 1, bypassed whole shipload of circuit, including lowcut and output buffer. 2, removal of two layers of pop filter. The mic comes with three layers, I removed the inner two which made a very large improvement in sound. You can't use it like that outdoor, though.


Da-Hong
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