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Why two mic for the soloist ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Notice the narrow spacing King uses for stereo spots: 5-6", not the w i d e spacings shown in the earlier posts.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Since the use of 'EFX' to broaden the image from a single spot mic has been raised - I'd suggest trying the Schoeps Mono Upmix plug-ins, available from Plugin Alliance. There are mono-to-stereo and mono-to-LCR versions. Beware however that a little bit goes long way, and the default settings the plug-in opens with are already at the 'too much' point!
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by M50k ➡️
Would a small/medium room preset be used, rather than a Hall setting?
With one of my latest productions I used a Lexicon medium hall setting for a large church. I always do this by the ear, never really thought about it.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #64
Gear Head
 
Wavefront's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️
In the up down orientation it really does not matter. Just from habit, I put the top as left and bottom as right. There is a subtle difference between the sound of the upper and lower , but it doesn't matter. What is important is to listen and adjust the array up and down and the individual microphone distance relationship to get a stable center image.
All the best,
Mark
Where your input is concerned, I know better than to assume that there isn't some further layer of nuance or experience that I might be missing, so thanks for the confirmation
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➡️
For similar reasons as Mark's, there is this article from Richard King 's recording yo yo ma with spot pairs (omnis) https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...stic-ensembles

a good read


Ray
Also a bunch of videos from the same Yo Yo Ma/'Goat Rodeo' sessions...illustrating those methods outlined in the Sound on Sound article:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...a0hDF4BfLx6GRw
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #66
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
multiple efx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
With one of my latest productions I used a Lexicon medium hall setting for a large church. I always do this by the ear, never really thought about it.
this!


___


let me add that wrapping a little envelope around a mono spot mic and matching its room/ambient sound can be two seperate things, calling for the use of two efx devices:
imo directional spots can profit from some early reflections (which are mostly dialled back on larger room/hall settings used for matching the spot to the mains).
and on very large ensembles, one may differentiate between near and far spots which then, together with ambient matching, can lead to using a third efx device...


[...which shows in my default setup, regardless of genre: i'm mostly using tc, lex and quantec (or sony) for small, medium and large settings - eventide get used for modulation (mainly in rock/blues though), completing my collection of efx devices]

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 11:22 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I just did a test with a flautist (no singer on hand) who I asked to always swing in the same way while playing.
I did three tests, with the microphones 10cm, 30cm and 50cm spaced, flute 1m in front of the microphones, 100% pan, Schoeps MK4 cardio microphones, AB.
You can listen here the result :
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ar4ec3m55...sbYMbrp9a?dl=0
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #68
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I almost always use two mics for singers, for example. But I like to portray the singers as they stand on stage. I do not necessarily want the singer in the center of the stereo picture. Why should it be? Just because one doesn't want to use a pan control??

So I do pan my stereo pairs. There is no drawback and the entire stereo field is then available.

1. Take a soloist with two cardioid mics. Often I pan her left mic at
8 o'clock and her right mic at 10 or 11 o'clock. This results in her being floated to the left of the stereo picture where she usually stands on (the real or imaginary) stage.

2. This is more difficult with omni mics ( a so-called REAL microphone) but they can provide a very satisfying pickup and timbre if spaced closer together.

3. For 4 singers in the config. (LFT. to RT.)-- SOP, MEZZO, TENOR, BASS--
I place them in the stereo picture spread across, according to where the main pair tells me they are standing. Again resorting to my German pans to float each of them in the stereo picture. This may or may not exactly match position as dictated by the main pair.

I am not dogmatic about positioning--instead using artistic license to full effect.

As taught to me by Teije van Geest, the late Gunter Appenheimer, and Martin Sauer.

Pictured below: the late great Gunter Appenheimer (1945-2021)---Tonstudio van Geest, Sandhausen, Germany
Attached Thumbnails
Why two mic for the soloist ?-gunter-appenheimer-picture.jpg  

Last edited by Plush; 4 weeks ago at 12:51 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
It's also interesting that all these vids show LDCs for vox spots; referring to the session sheets in the Decca book (again) pretty early on they seem to have switched from M49s for this, to SDCs - must have been a reason; off-axis response would be my guess.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #70
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
I almost always use two mics for singers, for example. But I like to portray the singers as they stand on stage. I do not necessarily want the singer in the center of the stereo picture. Why should it be? Just because one doesn't want to use a pan control??

So I do pan my stereo pairs. There is no drawback and the entire stereo field is then available.

1. Take a soloist with two cardioid mics. Often I pan her left mic at
8 o'clock and her right mic at 10 or 11 o'clock. This results in her being floated to the left of the stereo picture where she usually stands on (the real or imaginary) stage.

2. This is more difficult with omni mics ( a so-called REAL microphone) but they can provide a very satisfying pickup and timbre if spaced closer together.

3. For 4 singers in the config. (LFT. to RT.)-- SOP, MEZZO, TENOR, BASS--
I place them in the stereo picture spread across, according to where the main pair tells me they are standing. Again resorting to my German pans to float each of them in the stereo picture. This may or may not exactly match position as dictated by the main pair.

I am not dogmatic about positioning--instead using artistic license to full effect.

As taught to me by Teije van Geest, the late Gunter Appenheimer, and Martin Sauer.

Pictured below: the late great Gunter Appenheimer (1945-2021)---Tonstudio van Geest, Sandhausen, Germany
ok but how do you calculate the spacing of the two soloist microphones?
In case the soloist is in the center of the orchestra, should the microphones be parallel AB or slightly open, and how to choose the angle?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #71
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
My spacing is about 5-7 inches apart for cardioid. Sometimes much wider approaching 12 or more inches. I eyeball it from experience.

I set it up like that and then experiment according to what I hear. I have done it recently with
2 Pearl CC22, 2 Schoeps V4u and with 2 Schoeps MK21 and MK22.
All were excellent.

My main choice for vocal soloists is Pearl CC22. A superb large diaphragm Swedish microphone with a rectangular capsule.

I have never encountered a singer placed in the center. Sopranos and Mezzos are always on the LFT.

Floating the singer on the LFT. side in the stereo picture is also helpful to car drivers who are listening to FM broadcast.

Last edited by Plush; 4 weeks ago at 07:12 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
A bit OT, but what voodoo does Schoeps use in the 4VU to avoid the kind of uneven response shown in the diagram below (from a Crown paper), that's caused by a capsule mounted in a disc? The effect would begin at a higher frequency due the 4VU disc being only 33mm, but still . . .?

Is it simply because in the 4VU, the distance between the edge of the capsule and edge of the disc is less than the diameter of the capsule?
Attached Thumbnails
Why two mic for the soloist ?-screen-shot-2021-11-05-10.00.59-am.png  
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #73
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️

Floating the singer on the LFT. side in the stereo picture is also helpful to car drivers who are listening to FM broadcast.







Ray
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➡️






Ray
Could explain crash statistics (driver rage) in cars/countries with RH steering wheel !
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