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Rode Go II wireless...overload on sopranos
Old 25th October 2021
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Rode Go II wireless...overload on sopranos

I'm aware that I could well be using this consumer-grade pair of wireless mics plus receiver outside of its intended application scope...but.....

Here's the mic specs: https://rode.com/microphones/wireles...goii#module_12

Probably intended as a speech capture mic for low budget video productions...the sort where you plug the Rode wireless receiver's output directly into your phone or handi-cam's line level or mini-mic input ?

The Rode has a few extra features: it can record onboard to the transmitter unit for 7 hours of wav (or 24 hours of mp3) , as well as recording a safety file (ie: "safety channel mode will record a second track of audio at -20dB as a backup in case your sound source gets loud unexpectedly and causes the main channel to distort. To enable safety channel mode, open the RØDE Central app, plug in the Wireless GO II receiver, navigate to the settings screen, and click the 'Safety Channel' toggle")

However, that's for the onboard recording mode...not the wireless transmission...

There's a variable pad...a "gain control (three-stage pad, expandable to 10-stage) pad too" ...however this seems to act on either the output of the transmitter or the input of the receiver...so any input at the onboard mic level is not controlled ?

The specs on the Go II unit itself is:
Maximum SPL: 100 dB SPL (1kHz @ 1m) dBu
Maximum Input Level (3.5mm) :-20dBV


So...to the problem...on several occasions soprano singers using this mic attached to the clothing around neck or chest area produce overloaded transmissions to the receiver, irrespective of the 10 pad settings, and despite using a (supplied with the set) furry windscreen on the mic.

Being omni, this overload distortion occurs whether the mic is attached vertically, sideways or upside down.

I'm wondering if the attachment of the Rode Lavalier (a recommended accessory) would do anything to mitigate this tendency to overload on a female singing voice ?
The Lavalier spec and details are here: https://rode.com/microphones/lavaliergo......with Maximum SPL :110 dB
Sensitivity: -35dB (17.8mV @94dB SPL)

If there's no specific experience with this product (it's only been on the market a few months)...is the addition of the listed Rode Lavalier as an accessory likely to result in better overload handling capacity of the mic ?
Old 25th October 2021
  #2
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
First, I have just fished out my kit and checked what I thought was the case: the Rode Lavalier (21.00mV @ 94 dB SPL) in use matches the sensitivity of the onboard mics. However, you link to the cheaper Rode Lavalier GO, which as you say has a sensitivity of 17.8mV @94dB SPL. I don't think the difference is enough to help you.

Second, one of the more recent firmware updates gave the TX units a pad option (applied to onboard mic and external input). Rode technical support said this was 4dB, but I have tested this and even this small value doesn't seem to be the case: it has no effect at all. I have logged a query with technical support about this bug but have yet to get a response.

So, having used the kit a lot, no I wouldn't use it on a powerful soprano - unless with a very insensitive external lav.

Cheers,

Roland

PS Here's a link to my tests of the kit: https://drbadphil.com/testing-the-ne...wireless-go-ii
Old 27th October 2021
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, even with the addition of latest firmware and use of all the possible pad and output level adjustments, with the onboard mic you'll just end up with a quieter version of a distorted singer. I wonder where I'll find a lower sensitivity lavalier which can do the job ? Thanks for your comprehensive review link Roland !
Old 27th October 2021 | Show parent
  #4
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I wonder where I'll find a lower sensitivity lavalier which can do the job ?
DPA 4061 or 6061 perhaps? Both 6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 27th October 2021
  #5
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Or, cheaper, Countryman B3. W4 (no band): 12.0 mV/Pascal; and
W5 (red band): 4.0 mV/Pascal.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 27th October 2021
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks…the Countryman is definitely worth looking into. I haven’t tried doing a parallel ‘safety’ recording with the Rode Go2 at-12dB but I doubt it’s going to help in this case, if the mic capsule is overloaded ?
Old 27th October 2021 | Show parent
  #7
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Thanks…the Countryman is definitely worth looking into. I haven’t tried doing a parallel ‘safety’ recording with the Rode Go2 at-12dB but I doubt it’s going to help in this case, if the mic capsule is overloaded ?
Nope: RX pad won't help - that's all about (not) overloading the camera.

Incidentally, I have heard back from my Rode technical support contact, who - with one TX pair to hand - does find the -4dB pad works with the internal mics, but only gives -2dB with an external mic (RØDELink Lav), and no difference when fed an external tone signal. They will be exploring further, but even if working properly this -4dB won't help much with a very loud signal.

Countryman certainly more affordable than DPA.

Cheers,

Roland
Old 27th October 2021
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes...2-4dB isn't much of a pad at all, for any sort of input, but thank you for raising it with Rode: as it stands now, the Go II is quite a hamstrung device (at least for a moderately loud source, if not for softly spoken video narrative) !

Their firmware updates have been quite promising to date...if they could just go that extra mile..but maybe the flaw is already baked into the circuitry architecture, and is irredeemable ?

I'll certainly investigate Countryman B3 further, as it seems it's amenable to the 3-5 volt plug-in-powering that the Rode offers, and not just 48v phantom.
Old 28th October 2021 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Thanks…the Countryman is definitely worth looking into. I haven’t tried doing a parallel ‘safety’ recording with the Rode Go2 at-12dB but I doubt it’s going to help in this case, if the mic capsule is overloaded ?
Seems like this is the first thing to try. They obviously created the feature for some reason. The documentation on these is so minimal, it’s easy to assume and hard to know exactly what’s going on without testing…

Let us know if you test it.
Old 28th October 2021 | Show parent
  #10
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norfolksoundman9's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd33 ➡️
Seems like this is the first thing to try. They obviously created the feature for some reason. The documentation on these is so minimal, it’s easy to assume and hard to know exactly what’s going on without testing…

Let us know if you test it.
As I said, they created the feature in terms of not overloading the camera inputs. The safety channel feature just takes the transmitted signal from one TX unit (not padded), then splits the signal at the RX unit, leaving one channel unchanged and one padded at -20dB (not -12dB). If you overload the TX input this doesn't help and, indeed, the onboard recording on the TX is also clipped (and it is this back-up recording that arguably matters most).

But, yes, test away if it helps understanding this and other features!

Cheers,

Roland
Old 28th October 2021 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I wonder where I'll find a lower sensitivity lavalier which can do the job ?
As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a clean lav, especially wireless. How filthy is just a matter of degree. And it's a cheap dirty, not a Neve, rock n roll dirty.
Old 28th October 2021 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as a clean lav, especially wireless. How filthy is just a matter of degree. And it's a cheap dirty, not a Neve, rock n roll dirty.
Not really surprising is it...when you look at all the processing that occurs to a typical signal chain of an FM radio station....something like the Rode package would have to be sporting some pretty sophisticated levelling to constrain the live dynamics of a good soprano. What sort of wireless gear do they use for the Met Opera, for example...or is that mostly stage pzm's and shotguns ?
Old 28th October 2021 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Not really surprising is it...when you look at all the processing that occurs to a typical signal chain of an FM radio station....something like the Rode package would have to be sporting some pretty sophisticated levelling to constrain the live dynamics of a good soprano. What sort of wireless gear do they use for the Met Opera, for example...or is that mostly stage pzm's and shotguns ?
there is a huge difference in terms of performance and price between professional live sound gear (used for all genre and in a multitude of situations) and affordable devices aiming at a mass market.

even a single day's rental for a shure axient or sennheiser digital 6000 exceeds the purchase price of the rode system by far - the former two are about as close to the ideal 'what goes in, comes out again' as the latest generation of adda converters and there is nothing to stop you from using a schoeps capsule at the front...

...but as brent correctly mentioned, a lavalier at the front is a pretty reliable recipe for disaster (and headsets are only marginally better/come with their own quirks)!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Gain management...
I have never had a Lavalier distort if you buy the best and if your radio is similar they just cope.
ECM 77, Tram, DPA, can handle amazing levels, but you must monitor.
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