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Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax
Old 18th October 2021
  #1
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax

Here's another one of those "How would you approach this project?" threads.

For my first post-lockdown remote gig (hooray!), I'm going to be recording a 4-piece jazz group – Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax – probably in an empty school music room (might even be a theatre - let's hope) that's available for hire during the holidays, as there are apparently several decent pianos to be had on a nearby campus.

I'm struggling to get clear information about the space(s) and it may even change depending on which available piano is tuned and where that is located. As far as I'm aware there's no pick-up on the bass so I will be miking it acoustically. Information is a bit sketchy all round as the guys haven't played together before and this recording isn't exactly going out on ECM! Obviously I need to plan for worst case scenario, ie sub-standard room and no proper gobos.

It's a sort of 'one-day, pop-up' jazz project so time will typically be short and fraught, i.e. the morning to set-up/rehearse and the afternoon to record I think 3-5 standards. Musicians will be traveling in from all over which invariably eats into the set-up time. I've been told I can get in the day before so at least I can set up my stands/cables and get an idea of the layout etc.

I'll be using my ultra-portable Metric Halo mobile rig which means I can run 10-channels of preamps - variously MH, DAV, Camden etc.

I'm well aware that mic selection is probably going to be the least of my worries(!) but nevertheless I have already sketched out a probable mic plot based on my own familiarities and preferences.

I'm not seeking to reinvent the wheel here, however I'm open to ideas and it's always interesting/educational to see how others would deploy the same rig on the same gig, so... with 10 channels to work with and the following in your mic locker what would you start with and where?

SDC
  • Microtech Gefell M296 x 2
  • Line Audio CM4 x 2
  • Shure SM81
LDC
  • Shure KSM32 x 2
  • Microtech Gefell M930
DYNAMICS
  • AKG D12
  • BeyerDynamic M88
  • BeyerDynamic M201 x 2
  • ElectroVoice RE-20
  • Sennheiser MD-441 U
  • Sennheiser MD-421 U4
  • Sennheiser E906
  • Shure SM7B
  • Shure SM57
  • Shure SM58
SHOTGUN
  • Sennheiser MKH415-T
(P.S. Times are hard for everyone in the music biz, and I'm no exception, so I can't realistically add much of anything to my set-up at the moment, meaning please skip suggestions that involve a spendy budget - I need to work strictly with what I have for now. For example, I am well aware of the embarrassing lack of ribbons in my locker but that AEA Nuvo N8 pair will have to wait. I'd love another M930 some day as well.)

Last edited by James Lehmann; 23rd October 2021 at 02:00 PM..
Old 18th October 2021
  #2
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No one has ever captured those instruments playing that genre of music as well as the Dave Brubeck Quartet SR staff.
Hugh
Old 18th October 2021
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➡️
Here's another one of those "How would you approach this project?" threads.

I'm going to be recording a 4-piece jazz group - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax – probably in an empty school music room we can hire during the holidays.

SDC
  • Microtech Gefell M296 x 2
  • Line Audio CM4 x 2
  • Shure SM81
LDC
  • Shure KSM32 x 2
  • Microtech Gefell M930
DYNAMICS
  • AKG D12
  • BeyerDynamic M88
  • BeyerDynamic M201 x 2
  • ElectroVoice RE-20
  • Sennheiser MD-441 U
  • Sennheiser MD-421 U4
  • Sennheiser E906
  • Shure SM7B
  • Shure SM57
  • Shure SM58
if the room ain't great, you'll want to use less condenser mics than you 'normally' would...

d12, sm57, m201, cm4 (or sm81) for bd, sd, hh and (mono) oh, ksm32 (or cm4) pair inside the piano, m88 (or 421 or 441) on bass and re-20 (or 441 or m930) on sax would be my choice.

i'd use the gefell's for ambis nevertheless: you can still not route them to the main mix but feed them to efx only.

___


[i'll be mixing a very similar quartet live this weekend, albeit it ain't exactly a school band, named after an eye-catching colour for jackets, and they are a bit more on the electronic side... - rider requests look pretty similar; wide cardioids inside the grand piano though]

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 18th October 2021 at 03:12 PM.. Reason: info added
Old 18th October 2021 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse ➡️
No one has ever captured those instruments playing that genre of music as well as the Dave Brubeck Quartet SR staff.
Hugh
I'm afraid Dave has left the building...but fortunately some session pics remain:
https://store.acousticsounds.com/ima...Out8192-45.jpg

Session miking sketch on page 1 of this 3 page outline...which is generally well worth a read: https://www.prosoundweb.com/remaster...sonny-rollins/
Attached Thumbnails
Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax-brubeck-miking.jpg   Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax-brubeck30thstgoboed.jpg  
Old 18th October 2021 | Show parent
  #5
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I'm afraid Dave has left the building...but fortunately some session pics remain

Session miking sketch on page 1 of this 3 page outline...which is generally well worth a read: https://www.prosoundweb.com/remaster...sonny-rollins/
So you're saying all I really need is:
  • Neumann M49 x 2
  • Neumann U47
  • AKG C12
And I can make 'em sound like Brubeck?

Last edited by James Lehmann; 19th October 2021 at 08:54 AM..
Old 18th October 2021
  #6
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Ooooooh! Starbird stands!

D.
Old 18th October 2021
  #7
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Sounds like quite an enjoyable project, James! A theater would sound lovely for this kind of quartet, so I hope for your sake it's that. But even a music classroom can sound quite decent if it's large enough, we have a few at my college that sound surprisingly good. We can get some very decent recordings in them.

As a saxophonist myself, the mic I'd be most excited to use out of those you have available is the M930, it sounds wonderful on tenor. A close second would be the 441. And the M88 is excellent on upright bass, an excellent bassist friend of mine went out and bought one immediately after he borrowed mine for a couple days. I imagine the KSM32 might sound quite good on it as well, if they're not being used for the piano (I'd probably like to try the M296s on that, honestly, but they'd be great for the room too).

@ deedeeyeah – That should be quite an enjoyable group to engineer for! Russ Ferrante is a wonderful player and writer, his groups are always killer. I'll be curious how you end up miking Mr. Mintzer's tenor, if he's there... :-)
Old 18th October 2021 | Show parent
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Quote:
@ deedeeyeah – That should be quite an enjoyable group to engineer for! Russ Ferrante is a wonderful player and writer, his groups are always killer. I'll be curious how you end up miking Mr. Mintzer's tenor, if he's there... :-)
the rider specifies a md-441...

[...and that he'll bring along his own mic but based on experience, i don't give much about the 'book of lies' so i'll have a handful of different mics available]
Old 18th October 2021 | Show parent
  #9
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger ➡️
As a saxophonist myself, the mic I'd be most excited to use out of those you have available is the M930, it sounds wonderful on tenor. A close second would be the 441. And the M88 is excellent on upright bass, an excellent bassist friend of mine went out and bought one immediately after he borrowed mine for a couple days. I imagine the KSM32 might sound quite good on it as well, if they're not being used for the piano (I'd probably like to try the M296s on that, honestly, but they'd be great for the room too).
Hey - thanks for the input, especially on the Sax mic which is definitely in the 'undecided' category, given my lack of ribbons; would love a 4038 to put there!

My current plan (see pic) is to put the M930 out front of the kick (doing the U87 thing) as part of a simple 3-mic set-up on drums - I think it's the one mic in my locker with the best chance of a good clear 'kick + front-of-kit' sound.

Bass either RE-20 or M88, probably start with the former since I don't know the player and how much they might twirl their bass around, the 88 being very directional.

Which would indeed leave the 441 for Sax.

Having done some tests with the KSM32s vs the Line Audio CM4s on solo piano I have to say I prefer the ruthlessly flat sound of the CM4s - the KSMs do have a certain warmth to them that is a little too flattering on a Steinway which is already rather warm. And unlike solo piano I don't need the last word in LF response in a quartet situation, although again the CM4s do surprisingly well here for SDCs.

So probably CM4s on piano and the KSM32s as the overhead pair, where I dig what their aforementioned and somewhat oxymoronic 'warm neutrality' does to soften cymbal transients. (I'm allergic to sticky drummers - see my thread on this exact topic!)

As my only omnis, indeed the M296s will be set up as room mics - obviously these are probably gonna be more useful if I get a theatre rather than a band room.

That actually leaves me only one spare channel out of my ten, so I can see an M201 or the SM81 getting added into the kit perhaps on hat and/or snare depending on the material.

Spill will obviously abound, so I am praying for a sensitive drummer who plays with rods or brushes, and hoping I can scavenge some bits and pieces around the venue to try to at least partially enclose the bass, sax and piano mics - I have a few 60cm x 60cm panels I might able to transport with me which will be better than nothing if I can hang them on spare mic stands.
Attached Thumbnails
Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax-jazz-band-setup-quartet.jpg  

Last edited by James Lehmann; 19th October 2021 at 08:41 AM.. Reason: Added set-up diagram
Old 18th October 2021
  #10
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Progger's Avatar
 
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I'm always happy to record on a 441! I'd be jealous of that kick drum though.

Funny about the Coles – on me, they've always tended to be a bit dull and muffled for my taste. They're very cool mics, no doubt, but I find that for my saxophones, a good LDC is hard to beat.

I've encountered a curious and common misconception about classic jazz saxophone records, and many (even very experienced) engineers seem to be under the impression that ribbons were commonly used... and this might be true for the 1940s bebop records and earlier (Charlie Parker et al). But the vast majority of the records we think of as classics from the '50s and '60s (Brubeck with Paul Desmond, Miles Davis with John Coltrane, Cannonball, Sonny Rollins, etc) were done on big, beautiful Neumanns! u47, M49, and u67 being the usual suspects. And, of course, the reason Columbia and RVG used so many of those is because they were the "cleanest" mics available at the time. I bet those engineers would drool over modern, clean, low-noise, transformerless mics... the irony.
Old 19th October 2021
  #11
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Also of interest is that once RVG built his own studio, he pretty much left LDCs behind; the session photos show almost exclusively SDCs.
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by k brown ➡️
Also of interest is that once RVG built his own studio, he pretty much left LDCs behind; the session photos show almost exclusively SDCs.
And Schoeps at that! An early adopter.
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➡️
So you're saying all I really need is:
  • Neumann M49 x 2
  • Neumann U47
  • AKG C12
And I can make 'em sound like Brubeck?
Players of same calibre would probably help a little, too ....

But I'm not sure your client's listening world is really ready to 're-embrace 1959 all over again' ?
Will they be happy with a single mic on each instrument, working with spill between instruments (while employing baffles/goboes), recording instruments to 3 track LCR (in your DAW, not tape, obviously) followed by mix to 2 track ?

It would be a bold and daring experiment to try, assuming you have your client's blessing to recreate that era's sound....and you could leave 2/3 of your anticipated kit at home !
Meanwhile...deedeeyeah is already giving you 4 mics on drums, 2 on piano, ambi/room mics...they add up quickly !

However...you have (maybe ?) sufficient mics and channels to actually capture both aesthetics in parallel, at once...the old and the modern...and even to edit that way...and then produce 2 mixes: corresponding to a multi miked panoramic soundscape and a more minimal 50's version ?

Here's the kicker...I'd bet money that the 50's mix would turn ears and sell more copies, simply because it's a departure from the 'soundalike, cut from the same cloth' mix that you'd likely produce if you mic with the usual suspects 21stC hardware, today's reverbs and dynamics control....etc.

Give the public something new....or, rather, 'new again'...lol !
*Oh...and don't forget to give them the mono mix as well, as a free bonus download ...

Last edited by studer58; 19th October 2021 at 07:48 AM..
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Meanwhile...deedeeyeah is already giving you 4 mics on drums, 2 on piano, ambi/room mics...they add up quickly !
would you expect anything else from me?! :-)

when i was still working with paiste, i met so many older drummers who said they were glad when technique finally moved from single oh (and nothing else) to at least two mics (oh and kick) and then to three (add one on the snare) and beyond...

when using a condenser, one often gets away with one mic for both snare and hats but again, it does limit options, especially for eq, dynamic processing and efx so whenever i can, i add a mic on the hat and mostly even take it above a second oh. (which then would be the next mic i'd add, before toms, snare bottom etc.)

Quote:
However...you have (maybe ?) sufficient mics and channels to actually capture both aesthetics in parallel, at once...the old and the modern...and even to edit that way...and then produce 2 mixes: corresponding to a multi miked panoramic soundscape and a more minimal 50's version ?
this imo is indeed the way to go - if one has the gear, time and budget to do so - as it leaves most options while mixing!
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
this imo is indeed the way to go - if one has the gear, time and budget to do so - as it leaves most options while mixing!
It's unfortunate James has only 10 preamp channels on his interface...12 or 16 would have allowed such duplication of approaches quite easily.

I'm under no illusion that the 'Time Out/Kind of Blue' minimal miking was imposed not from audiophile puritanism but much more likely absence of input channels on the mixing panel...but, if they'd had more inputs....which instruments (or the room) would have been the recipients of extra mics ?

I'm guessing that for ambience/reverb the practice then at 30th St was to use chambers, plates or springs rather than room mics ?

Due to the use of baffles/gobos and the likelihood this upcoming jazz date won't feature players in their typical stage locations....so anything like a regular main pair likely won't render for you a stabilising stereo picture of the band (as you'd get with a string quartet or piano trio, for example)

Therefore, your tall mics are more likely to be reverb sends, in the way deedeeyeah advocates their use....and thus the instrument mics are going to be less typical 'close spot mics' and much more 'instrument plus surrounding space' mics ?
Old 19th October 2021
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Progger's Avatar
 
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@ studer58 – From what I understand, all of the reverb we hear on those classic 30th Street records (at least, all the Miles records between "Round About Midnight" and "Nefertiti," from about 1958-1968) came from the room itself. I don't think any plate or chamber sends were used (although I'm very open to being wrong if there's better documentation out there I haven't seen!). In interviews, Frank Laico talks about his love for giving plenty of space between the musician and the microphone, both because of the added ambience and because it helps make the musicians more comfortable. I think all the beautiful reverb on those records may just stem from that cool old Armenian church that they turned into a studio!

A big takeaway from those Laico interviews for me was that his top priority was making sure the musicians were happy and comfortable... he seemed like a really cool guy, loved working with Miles and wanted everyone to have a good time. He knew that's how the best music is made!

That being said, I agree with DDY about drum miking in particular, and I far prefer contemporary drum sounds. I honestly prefer contemporary methods and technology overall, even though I love those old records. So I think there is indeed a healthy middle ground of classic, timeless fundamentals with the benefit of modern implementation.
Old 19th October 2021
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I’ve wondered if Kind of Blue would have been the phenomenon it was had Laico engineered it instead of Fred Plaut, resulting in a balance closer to Milestones, Seven Steps to Heaven, etc. instead of the ethereal thing Fred accomplished. The sound of that record draws me back to it as much as the music, and I wish more of Miles’ acoustic quintet recordings on Columbia sounded that way. And I am glad Fred also did the large ensemble recordings, as those share a similar aesthetic to KOB.
Old 19th October 2021
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On pop records (Tony Bennett, etc.) at least on the vocal they used a basement room at 30th St. for a reverb chamber. Don't know if, or how much it may have been used on jazz dates.
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
I’ve wondered if Kind of Blue would have been the phenomenon it was had Laico engineered it instead of Fred Plaut, resulting in a balance closer to Milestones, Seven Steps to Heaven, etc. instead of the ethereal thing Fred accomplished. The sound of that record draws me back to it as much as the music, and I wish more of Miles’ acoustic quintet recordings on Columbia sounded that way. And I am glad Fred also did the large ensemble recordings, as those share a similar aesthetic to KOB.
I love Kind of Blue, and sonically I do prefer it to "Round About Midnight..." But my favorites by far were engineered by Laico (as far as I know), like the Sorcerer and Miles Smiles. But they're not nearly as well-known as KOB, so you may well have a good point!
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
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fellow gearslut daniel dettwiler organized a seminar with george massenburg, al schmitt and of course steve genewick (without whom i'm sure al couldn't have followed his profession for this long) some time ago - daniel asked al to show which mic technique he would have used for a small jazz ensemble in days long gone:

there was no surprise in terms of mic selection, positioning, speed of use, overall soundfield etc....

...but what came a bit as a surprise was how much al was reluctant to show this: when asked about his resistance, he answered (i paraphrase) that we're in 21st century and things have changend - he couldn't see much of a point in trying to recreate things of the past!

from conversations with musicians, i assume that al was also referring to the fact that the musicians these days play in vastly different ways even if they are trying to evoque the spirit of the past...

...and imo al got a point!

i'm sticking to a more modern approach and even if i'd be recording in a studio with (what i consider to be excellent) acoustics, with excellent musicians, set up in way that they feel comfortable (which is often much closer than in these pics from rvg and elsewhere), i would NOT use but four (tube) mics!

i'd use a pair of mics on piano, 2-4 on drums, one each on sax and bass and possibly ditch ambis if i'd be running out of tracks - more likely however, i'd get additional gear to get those missing channels going so i could select as many mics as i want!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 20th October 2021 at 01:26 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
  #21
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
fellow gearslut daniel dettwiler organized a seminar with george massenburg, al schmitt and of course steve genewick (without whom i'm sure al couldn't have followed his profession for this long) some time ago - daniel asked al to show which mic technique he would have used for a small jazz ensemble in days long gone:

there was no surprise in terms of mic selection, positioning, speed of use, overall soundfield etc....

...but what came a bit as a surprise was how much al was reluctant to show this: when asked about his resistance, he answered (i paraphrase) that we're in 21st century and things have changend - he couldn't see much of a point in trying to recreate things of the past

from conversations with musicians, i assume that al was also referreing to the fact that the musicians these days play in vastly different ways even if they are trying to evoque the spirit of the past...

...and imo al got a point!

i'm sticking to a more modern approach and even if i'd be recording in a studio with (what i consider to be excellent) acoustics, with excellent musicians, set up in way that they feel comfortable (which is often much closer than in these pics from rvg and elsewhere), i would NOT use but four (tube) mics!

i'd use a pair on piano, 2-4 on drums, one each on sax any bass and possibly ditch ambis if i'd be running out of tracks - more likely however, i'd get additional gear to get those missing channels going so i could select mics as many mics as i want!
So many performers, especially younger folks, play so loud now, with little consideration for acoustical balance, even in situations with minimal reinforcement available. I really wish this was more of a focus in modern jazz/BAM/etc pedagogy, but I’m not holding my breath, which I’m running out of anyways because I have to play so loud all the time 😅.
Old 19th October 2021
  #22
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Dave Brubeck Carnegie Hall;

Listen to the CD: smooth, natural balance.
Attached Thumbnails
Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax-brubeck.png   Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax-brubeck-ii.png  
Old 19th October 2021 | Show parent
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
So many performers, especially younger folks, play so loud now, with little consideration for acoustical balance, even in situations with minimal reinforcement available. I really wish this was more of a focus in modern jazz/BAM/etc pedagogy, but I’m not holding my breath, which I’m running out of anyways because I have to play so loud all the time ������.
...which is a bit ironic: i sometines wish some of the older musicians, specifically bass players, would play louder so i could get at least a little bit of attack (and something else than cymbals in the bass mic)!

___


wait, the opposite happened too, albeit mostly with wind instruments: i recall gato barbieri playing on end and being roughly equally loud all the time, regardless of whether someone else took a solo and whether he was standing behind a mic or not - there was just no way of burrying him in the mix (unless i would have gone ridiculously loud)?!

(pretty sure this won't be an issue with bob mintzer this weekend!)
Old 20th October 2021
  #24
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A great conversation, and I'm sure James is taking notes !

Whether under-floor chambers, plates, plugins (haha !) or the cavernous room of 30th St itself was the source of that luxurious reverb might be contentious...but having musicians playing in conditions of best eye contact and being able to hear one another optimally is surely going to draw the best playing out of them. That pre-condition needs to be way up high in the priorities !

Whether you'll be in a location that permits optimization of the hall/room acoustics is unlikely (or at least unknown), so your mix brief will be to make that band cohere as well as possible, including sharing a credible room ambience...and you have a few options up your sleeve for fabricating that.
Old 20th October 2021
  #25
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piano:
matched sdc mics

saxophone:
ldc

bass:
ldc

drums:
matched ldc mics for overheads
dynamic mics/etc for close micing/sound balancing
Old 20th October 2021 | Show parent
  #26
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
piano:
matched sdc mics

saxophone:
ldc

bass:
ldc

drums:
matched ldc mics for overheads
dynamic mics/etc for close micing/sound balancing
I have indeed considered this:

Piano >> CM4 pair
Sax >> KSM32
Bass >> KSM32
Drums >> Hmm...

Problem is if you look at my rather limited mic list I've then run out of a cardioid pair of anything for the drums, unless I use two hyper-c M201s. Not sure I want to deploy my omni M296 pair there either - they're gonna get everything.

Last edited by James Lehmann; 20th October 2021 at 04:29 PM..
Old 20th October 2021
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Progger ➡️
I honestly prefer contemporary methods and technology overall, even though I love those old records. So I think there is indeed a healthy middle ground of classic, timeless fundamentals with the benefit of modern implementation.
+1

One can only speculate of course, but it seems unlikely that on hearing his piano being recorded and mixed in stereo at 24/96k Brubeck would say: "Actually no guys, can you please remove that second mic and go back to just the one on my piano. And I'm not hearing enough tape hiss so you can add that back in too."

When you consider the basic set-up diagram I posted above, it's really just a variation/evolution of the "classic, timeless fundamentals" for a quartet; in other words the 4-point system becomes a 6-point system whereby you still basically treat every instrument as a single source but you subtly 'stereoize' the drums and the piano. (Strictly speaking, following this line of thinking one would place two LDCs in front of the kit - who says that pair has to be 'overhead' per se and when did this even become a thing in jazz?)

Beyond that and trying to keep phase issues to a minimum, the main variables are just what they always were, i.e. finding a geographical plot that works for the players and the room.

Last edited by James Lehmann; 20th October 2021 at 04:28 PM..
Old 20th October 2021 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➡️
I have indeed considered this:

Piano >> CM4 pair
Sax >> KSM32
Bass >> KSM32

Problem is if you look at my rather limited mic list I've then run out of a pair of anything for the drums, unless I use two M201s.
Assembling directly from your mic collection listing:

piano:
Line Audio CM4 x 2

saxophone:
KSM32 or M930

bass:
KSM32 or M930

(the M930 is a better mic, so you will have to choose whether the saxophone or the bass gets the M930)

drum overheads:
Microtech Gefell M296 x 2

hihat:
SM81

snare drum:
SM57

bass drum:
D112 or RE20

toms:
whatever works well from your collection of dynamic mics
Old 22nd October 2021
  #29
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Kick - D12 or M88
Snare - sm57
OH.L - CM4 or KSM32
OH.R - CM4 or KSM32
Bass - 441 or 421 by the f-hole. (You said he's got no pickup, but take the DI if he's got one, and if he's using an amp, mic that with a 421 or something)
Pno.L - CM4 or KSM32
Pno.R - CM4 or KSM32
Sax - RE20 (trust me on this one)

If you have the channels leftover:
Room.L - m296
Room.R - m296

If you can turn the piano in such a way to use the lid as a gobo to keep the drums out of it, you'll be happier. Also, bring a packing blanket or two to make a gobo between the bass f-hole mic and the drums (a couple of tripod boom stands, music stands, or a chairs will suffice as something to drape them over)
Old 22nd October 2021 | Show parent
  #30
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAnderson ➡️
Kick - D12 or M88
...
Very helpful Rob, thank you.

Agree with more or less everything although I am keen to at least try a mono LDC out in front of the kit as a sort of kick/kit mic.

Piano and drum overhead interchangeable depending. It seems like the Sax and the Bass will get one of either RE-20, MD-441 or M88 depending. @ Progger seems to like a 441 on his sax.

I've only got one pair of omnis so I think those have to go on the room, and if it sounds lousy/doesn't add anything I can recuperate some channels for individual drums.

The 10th channel will indeed most likely be a 57 or 201 or possibly the 81 on snare or hi-hat depending on the material but if there's a bass DI I am cooked and that's it.

(I've decided I'm not schlepping the D12, the SM7B or the MKH-415T for this particular gig.)

The good news is I have pillaged four Realtraps 100 x 50cm Microtraps on stands and one 50cm x 50cm folding PVB, so perhaps 2 each for the drums and piano and the PVB can go around the bass mic. I have some packing blankets and cushions as well once I hear what the kick is doing.

Piano orientation is indeed a key factor but over which I have little control - I would be loathe to move it after it's been tuned as that can quickly kill a promising session stone dead if it goes out.

Last edited by James Lehmann; 23rd October 2021 at 08:21 AM..
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