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Jazz quartet recording - Drums, Grand Piano, Upright Bass, Tenor Sax
Old 5th November 2021 | Show parent
  #61
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wildplum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
very nice. my one comment would be on the difference in intimacy between the drum solo and the solos of the other three instruments (also, the drums do seem a bit too distant overall, compared to the other instruments).

I loved the way the band presented this piece. I also like very much that the band slowed the tempo down (compared to how this piece is usually done). And your recording allowed that to shine. I could feel the music carrying my along with it.
Old 5th November 2021 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
My thoughts, as well.

I felt the only slight mis-step was the use of overheads on the drums, rather than something simpler/closer. Experimenting with the mix, I wanted to wet the sax more with the room pair, but that made the drums too wet, because of how much room was in the drum mics.

Otherwise very sweet, turns out the room is nearly ideal for this.
Old 6th November 2021 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Addict
 
idee und klang's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I created two videos about the recording and mixing of the ECM Production "Puerta" by Vibes Player Jorge Rossy (with drummer Jeff Ballard and Robert Landfermann on Bass)

The nice thing but also the most difficult in recording (and mixing) jazz is, that there are so many possibilities. Few mics or lots of mics, all musicians in one room (and use crosstalk for your benefit) or have the musicians separated in different rooms, let them play with headphones or not - that all is part of the concept and will lead to different results. What is even more a challenge is that with great musicians, well, it is more fun, but also you won't be given a lot of time for a soundcheck - they come and want to make takes.

Here are the links of the two videos if anyone is interested.

Recording Session:
https://youtu.be/8qy_aqxBFwE

Mixing Session:
https://youtu.be/8UwRSB0G7GA

Those Vids are not really tutorials, as time was limited - but there still is a lot of information.
If there are any questions about it feel free to post it here.

Daniel
Old 6th November 2021
  #64
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Many thanks for the comments and suggestions folks.

I completely agree that the drums are in too much space compared to the other instruments.

My experience of doing this kind of gig before (albeit in very different spaces and with very different drummers/kits etc) led me to prioritise trying to keep the drums from bleeding into the other mics above all else, but on reflection in this particular hall I might have done better to divert some or all of my limited resources to semi-enclosing the kit itself and/or selecting a different mic set-up there. (Given the musicians had already selected how/where they wished to play.)

I also think the piano mics are maybe a little tight in as there's the inevitable 'up close' sound - you don't really hear it when he's comping along quietly with the band, and it sounds pretty good there, but on some of the more strident solo sections it's a bit more 'in your face' than I normally like. I could perhaps have backed the CM4s up by six inches and still been OK in terms of acceptable drum bleed. So many interesting choices and trade-offs to be had in and around a grand piano lid!

Sax and bass I was very happy with - one can always have more and better mics but those two dynamics (MD-441 and RE-20) were just the ticket in that space, with the limited time and channels I had to work with.

Overall a lot of useful feedback to take with me moving forward, and I hope to record in that extraordinary hall again someday both older and wiser!

Last edited by James Lehmann; 6th November 2021 at 02:06 PM..
Old 8th November 2021 | Show parent
  #65
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➑️
I completely agree that the drums are in too much space compared to the other instruments.
I think of it as the other instruments not having enough space. The drums are way back there, everything else is up close. I'd rather everything else be a bit more recessed personally.
--scott
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just to kind of 'bookend' this thread...

(As personally I find when folks take the trouble to add audio/video to their posts it's infinitely more interesting and educational than just words.)

I've got permission to use footage of one of the tracks from this 'experimental session' which I've given a very basic edit in Da Vinci Resolve and cut alongside my final mix:



You can check back my earlier posts to see exactly what mics and pre's I used - most of which appear clearly in the video.

---

PS And do check back with the earlier photos so you can see the sheer size of this vast hall, and hence what I was up against trying to get a workable sound without being able to move the piano!

Last edited by James Lehmann; 4 weeks ago at 10:40 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
That's a nice honest visual souvenir of the event. I'd only counted 8 mics going into your interface, so assumed you had only the instrument mics and no room mics...but I see mention of additional room mics also. Where were they located, and how much of them made it into the mix as 'glue' ?

Now that the event is in the bag, it's safe to speculate on some 'what if' alternate scenarios.

I wonder how it might have sounded if you'd reduced the number of gobo screens, and allowed the considerable distance between players to provide the 'isolation plus bleed' between the instruments...with perhaps a central pair of spaced room mics as additional glue.

We'll never know...but hopefully you'll have a return bout of 15 rounds in that room again someday ?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #68
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
That's a nice honest visual souvenir of the event.
Yes indeed - warts and all. This was very much a test session in that hall to see and hear what worked and what didn't, and a learning experience both for the musicians (who had never played together until about 1hr before this was shot) and me.

There's talk of another session in the Spring so if it's in the same hall... from the musicians' point of view I hope they move the piano and tune it properly next time (neither was done) and from my point of view I'm going to go with one or two ribbons (probably M160s as I can borrow a pair) as overheads on the drums, which we all agree was the main problem area. I also think I can adjust the piano mics slightly differently, ie pull back a bit. And we need a boatload more gobos!
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
I'd only counted 8 mics going into your interface, so assumed you had only the instrument mics and no room mics...but I see mention of additional room mics also. Where were they located, and how much of them made it into the mix as 'glue'?
I had the Gefell M296s behind me several metres in the air. They are in the mix but pretty low down.

Thanks for listening and for your feedback!

Last edited by James Lehmann; 4 weeks ago at 06:31 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #69
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes if the piano descends down to the floor that will put the players closer together, with resulting better interaction and chemistry between them than you got this time...though they did very well in consideration of that !

As you say, extra gobos will then be necessary....or you could go with more ribbons and carefully angled nulls to achieve comparable isolation. All fertile ground for experimentation...and even better if you can swing it that the players are able to rehearse in the same space, to give you more miking tryouts !
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