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Line Audio CM4 accessories
Old 6 days ago
  #1
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Line Audio CM4 accessories

Hi y'all,

I have a pair of Line Audio CM4 on the way and I'm planning on recording a chorus and chamber orchestra in a nice sounding church with just a NOS pair through my Audient iD14 and a macbook with external ssd drives.

It seems like the Manfrotto 1004 is a good stand for this application and I'm thinking about Belden brilliance or Mogami 2549 to roll my own cables with Neutriks.

I might upgrade later and get more channels for outriggers/spots, so I'd like to buy keepers all the way.

Any thoughts and ideas are highly appreciated.

I'm also looking for some backup recorder that could work with this setup.

Thanks!
Daniel
Old 6 days ago
  #2
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Canare L-4E5C my choice for many years.
Or another star-quad cable.
Old 6 days ago
  #3
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
Any thoughts and ideas are highly appreciated.
My single cables are Canare L-4E5C w/neutriks. They're great.

But recently, I switched most of my cables to custom 50' long Mogami 2930 2ch snakes. It makes my setups much cleaner---half as many cables to get tangled, and just one cable per stereo pair. Here is one supplier:

https://www.proaudiola.com/product-p...f-xlrm-2-p.htm

I have a custom builder who made mine if you're OK with waiting a few weeks.

I have everything (cable & Neutriks) black-on-black for filming, and I use these Neutrik color rings to make setup easier:

https://www.parts-express.com/Neutri...8aAoUGEALw_wcB

I really like the CMEH shock mounts that Roger/Line Audio designed to go with the CM4 mics (not everyone does though).

I also have the Manfrotto 1004 stand. It is fantastic for what it is---just know that it's B-I-G and way overkill for a tiny pair of CM4's. Nowadays I often leave it home and take Matthews 7' Reverse Stands with a Matthews 48" extensions. Together that gets you an 11'+ high stand (nearly 12' with a stereo bar) that folds to 22.75" and is *very* compact---you can toss it in a backpack---but still has a large footprint for stability and holds 11lbs (i.e. an entire caseload of CM4's) easily (Matthews is pro gear and it can likely hold significantly more than its rating---they are made better than my Manfrotto gear with proper lockdowns on the telescoping tubes).

I travel with the stand & extension in a gun sleeve, something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Allen-Company...dDbGljaz10cnVl

Also, you'll want a few sandbags or (what I use) fitness ankle weights to weigh down the stand feet for stability.

If you know you're using a NOS array, you may want to pick up a shapeways NOS mount made for the CM4's. It is light and compact and makes setup effortless.

Use the foams that come with your CM4's if your site has HVAC.
Old 5 days ago
  #4
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks so much, tessitura and hipporu! That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Great idea to use a stereo snake. Looks cleaner as well.

Can you point me to the Matthews stands you use? I was looking at their website but wasn't sure which ones fit your description.

Are you using a backup recorder at all?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
Thanks so much, tessitura and hipporu!
Are you using a backup recorder at all?
We have more accessible manfrottos, I can't say anything about the others.
If you ordered microphones without CMEH Elastic holder, you will need some kind of vibration isolation, such as Rycote shock-mount INV-7.
Backup depending on the situation, sometimes miхpre-3 and a midside microphone, sometimes sony PCM-A10, sometimes nothing.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #6
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipporu ➡️
We have more accessible manfrottos, I can't say anything about the others.
If you ordered microphones without CMEH Elastic holder, you will need some kind of vibration isolation, such as Rycote shock-mount INV-7.
Backup depending on the situation, sometimes miхpre-3 and a midside microphone, sometimes sony PCM-A10, sometimes nothing.
I did order the elastic holders with the CM4s.

What stereo bar do you recommend?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
I did order the elastic holders with the CM4s.

What stereo bar do you recommend?
Here in another topic
CM4 Is Here. Let's start a thread for it and let the CM3 go on

I use something Chinese with a hole in the middle so that I can attach a third microphone.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
You might also look at the various line audio mounts available at Shapeways if you routinely use a particular configuration.

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplac...g=line%2Baudio
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
Thanks so much, tessitura and hipporu! That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Great idea to use a stereo snake. Looks cleaner as well.

Can you point me to the Matthews stands you use? I was looking at their website but wasn't sure which ones fit your description.

Are you using a backup recorder at all?
The Matthews stands I use are Matthews 7' Reverse Stand, part no. #B387486 :

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...e_Stand_7.html

They give 7' height and an unusually large (for a compact) 32" footprint and hold 11lbs, but they fold to a tiny (and also narrow) 22.75". They are well built and have 'real' tightening clamps, unlike many of my Manfrotto stands, so even though the metal legs are narrow and compact, nothing is going to move when it's clamped down (esp. not under a tiny pair of CM4).

For the main pair of mics, I also bring a Matthews 50" Telescopic Baby Stand Extension to put on top of the reverse stand (part no. 429499):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Extension.html

Once you add the stereo bar on top, this gets your main pair of mics to just under 12' of height, but together the stand and extension are tiny. I throw 3 of the stands + 1 extension in a carryon luggage with a pile of other gear. I save the Manfrotto 1004 for when I need an array with a pair of heavy mics, or when I want to use a boom or something---it's great and has a better 42" footprint but it's also huge even when folded.

All of the Matthews stuff has Baby Pins at the top, so to mount mic hardware on it you'll need an adapter. I use these Manfrotto #014-38 , which are great.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...kaAqM3EALw_wcB

They convert the top baby pin to a 3/8" stud. Your CMEH mic clips will take both 3/8" or 5/8", and many stereo bars accept 3/8" as well (or just get the tiny K&M adapters).

If you have a Samy's Camera near you, you can go try out the Matthews in person.

Sandbag or ankle-weight your stand regardless of which you choose.

Re: stereo bars, I have still not found the perfect solution. I have two of the Manfrotto 154B:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...waAqeFEALw_wcB

They are (in my opinion) unbeatable for heavy mics or 4-mic arrays, but not what you want for a tiny pair of CM4 as the Manfrotto bar/mounts are huge and heavy.

I also have the Sabra Som ST2:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...l?sts=pi&pim=Y

Some people here like them---I personally would like it a lot better if their quality control were better. It's fine, but the fit/finish is subpar.

I made a couple of my own stereo bars. If I hadn't, I would be buying a Shapeways (if you know the stereo array you want) or a Rode StereoBar or K&M if you want to experiment.

Also, it's probably worth noting that if you need to economize on this part of your rig, there are import versions of all of the stand parts I listed. I have no experience with these, but for reference here's Impact's copy of the Matthews 7' reverse stand for $33 if you have an Edu account, and like Manfrottos it comes with its own baby pin adapters on top so you don't need to buy others. Check the tube clamps before trusting it though, as it only has 3lb capacity instead of Matthews 11lb:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...erse_legs.html
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The Baby pole telescopic extensions look great and should achieve their purpose well.

What worries me about the Matthews or cheaper Impact version reverse stands is that, despite the wide contact footprint of the legs... it might be prone to wobble or sway, from the point where the central column pole meets the floor ?

Traditional tripods spread the contact over widely spaced 3 feet/toes... whereas these reverse stands seem to allow the central pole to directly contact the floor (yes ?)...so it seems on first viewing that floor vibrations could directly contact the central strut, and the anti-sway or anti-wobble stability also looks lower than a conventional tripod...even if sandbags are used, despite the apparently wider leg base ?

Last edited by studer58; 5 days ago at 12:11 AM..
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
What worries me about the Matthews or cheaper Impact version reverse stands is that, despite the wide contact footprint of the legs... it might be prone to wobble or sway, from the point where the central column pole meets the floor ?
^^No---normally the Matthews stand I linked looks exactly like a 'normal' tripod with the center column ~8" off the floor and only the three 'toes' touching the floor as in the very first pic in the B&H link (and indeed this setup is the only way to achieve the 7' max height):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/...d_7_502683.jpg

The Matthews Reverse design also allows you to you drop the center column flat onto the ground if you want, but then you lose some height---I never use it that way for exactly the reason you mention.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tessitura ➡️
^^No---normally the Matthews stand I linked looks exactly like a 'normal' tripod with the center column ~8" off the floor and only the three 'toes' touching the floor as in the very first pic in the B&H link (and indeed this setup is the only way to achieve the 7' max height):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/...d_7_502683.jpg

The Matthews Reverse design also allows you to you drop the center column flat onto the ground if you want, but then you lose some height---I never use it that way for exactly the reason you mention.
Aha....that pic clarifies it well ! I'd only feel comfortable using as shown in this pic...elevated 8".

BTW, it's hard to tell from the pics...are the 3 legs hollow/cylindrical/tubular...or solid rectangular bars ? If the latter, they might be more susceptible to bending, or at least less rigid than tubular legs...especially with sandbags or weights added ?
Old 4 days ago
  #13
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks, that's awesome advice!

I'll look into the Shapeways NOS bracket. How do these attach to the mic stand? Do I need to order an extra part to make the connection?
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #14
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Aha....that pic clarifies it well ! I'd only feel comfortable using as shown in this pic...elevated 8".

BTW, it's hard to tell from the pics...are the 3 legs hollow/cylindrical/tubular...or solid rectangular bars ? If the latter, they might be more susceptible to bending, or at least less rigid than tubular legs...especially with sandbags or weights added ?
The Matthews stand I linked uses solid rectangular bars for legs instead of tubular ones. This is what lets it be so compact/narrow when folded (in addition to being short when folded). I wouldn't worry about the legs' rigidity under the max 11lbs load---Matthews stuff is in general better built than Manfrotto's pro lines, and the weight ratings are conservative. I'm not knocking Manfrotto---I have a ton of their gear---but if you hang out around Hollywood film sets, the majority of their gear is Matthews (it's made in California after all). My Manfrotto 1004BAC's vertical (round) tubes start to bend/deform when loaded over 12lbs if the weight is even 1" off center (for example, when you use the Manfrotto boom clamp...). In my opinion, the key difference in the build is that Matthews uses 'real' metal screw clamps on the telescoping tubes, and my Manfrotto stuff uses little plastic collar clamps (and in general feels more 'prosumer' than 'pro').

I also have Manfrotto's smaller stands in the same 'fold flat' range as the 1004BAC but similar in size to Matthews---these have tubular legs, but I wouldn't recommend them for anything except very lightweight loads---the clamps on their telescoping tubes are all plastic.
Old 4 days ago | Show parent
  #15
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
Thanks, that's awesome advice!

I'll look into the Shapeways NOS bracket. How do these attach to the mic stand? Do I need to order an extra part to make the connection?
The Shapeways replaces your CMEH mic clips. This means you will need a different shockmount between your Shapeways and your stand to kill the low frequency floor vibrations before they end up in your recordings.

Someone who has the Shapeways handy can verify---I know some members here like the Rycote Lyres/mounts to do this job, but I think you may actually be able to mount the Shapeways bar where the mic usually goes in one or two CMEH holders (Shapeways has a 20mm mount, right?) Maybe someone here has tried it?
Old 2 days ago
  #16
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhenriks ➡️
I'm also looking for some backup recorder that could work with this
Two ideas: [free] either get a phone clamp and attach your iphone a few inches from your mains and record a backup with a recording app (not Voice Note please---use something that records at a decent bit rate); Alternatively, do the same thing but with a Zoom recorder of your choice with built in mics (H6, H4nPro, etc.). You can always upgrade later.

Basically, it's a good idea to have a *totally independent* backup (that works even if every piece of your main system/interface/laptop fails). Also, even though it's anathema to say here, if you get even a [low quality] iphone or Zoom all-in-one and put it **in the right place** in a good room up high next to your mains, it will still be usable in my experience. Yes, you'll have a higher noise floor, less detail, and (for iphone) some compression, but the location & room matter more. Don't tell anyone, but I did this with an iphone over the summer on the day when someone forgot to hit 'record' on the main system. As a result, we still have a very nice track---nobody else has noticed. Again, placement is key.
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