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Which Schoeps omni as allround AB?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Nut
 
Which Schoeps omni as allround AB?

I am considering investing into another Schoeps pair to complement my CMC6Mk4 pair, but I am a little confused as to which I should choose of the different MK2 variants.

This is for classical, as main pickup (also in array with the mk4s), mostly for chamber music but also for some orchestral.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
a strategy of the mk2 series is to be able to place omnis at different distances, but have their frequency capture be similar. you lose more high frequency the more distant the mic is from the source. so the further away the mic, you select a mic with a stronger high frequceny boost to recapture what was lost.

mk2: no high frequency boost
mk2h: some high frequency boost
mk2s: stronger high frequency boost

so you could close mic with the mk2, mid distance mic with the mk2h, and distance mic with the mk2s. then you could blend the sound and theoretically their frequency response would be similar. you would be deciding on how much ambience you want, while keeping the frequency response consistent. so your ambience decisions are unlinked to your frequency response decisions. that's the basic idea.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Unless you work in one location exclusively, with one group and always at the same distance...you need all of them, just in case.... !
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Unless you work in one location exclusively, with one group and always at the same distance...you need all of them, just in case.... !
Understood - when budget allows. Perhaps a good starting point would then be the mk2h? I had that in mind anyhow, especially as I already have a pair of Rode NT5 with the 45o omni capsule, which is closer to the mk2s I suspect?

How would the mk2h behave in a 4mic Faulkner style array?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #5
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGebauer ➡️
Understood - when budget allows. Perhaps a good starting point would then be the mk2h? I had that in mind anyhow, especially as I already have a pair of Rode NT5 with the 45o omni capsule, which is closer to the mk2s I suspect?

How would the mk2h behave in a 4mic Faulkner style array?
I believe Tony built his 4 mic system with the 2H in mind, so you’d be in good shape using it that way.

I personally don’t love the 2h sound, i feel like it ends up focusing on the upper mids in an unattractive way . But I know a lot of people do like that mic so it’s probably just me, or maybe the pres/converters i was using, etc. I really like the mk5 since I’ve had it though, and it accomplishes a similar mission to the 2H as an Omni. 2S I quite like but close-in the HF is noticeably boosted, and for chamber ensembles and solo instruments it can be a bit much. That said, I think it can be a good choice for all-around use, and I’ve used it closer in with vertical orientation on a couple occasions with good success

Mk2 is the other way around, on larger ensembles I found myself reaching for a shelf EQ boost immediately, and in my limited experience the mk2 doesn’t take EQ as well as other flat omnis ive used (4006, km131). My advice would be to only get this if you’re planning to mostly use it on soloists and small ensembles with relatively close placement, or if you’re gonna buy more than one pair of omnis/Omni caps. They do sound lovely though.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
FWIW, the ones I use most frequently are the Mk2S and the Mk21 wide-cardioids. This mostly depends, as said above, how close my main pair is from the ensemble.

I use the Mk2 heads for closer mic'ing, think section spots. I love the Mk2S in a Jecklin Disk for solo piano.

But I agree. You need them all.

D.

Last edited by tourtelot; 2 weeks ago at 04:14 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGebauer ➡️
This is for classical, as main pickup (also in array with the mk4s), mostly for chamber music but also for some orchestral.
The net will not help you, only your taste and the way you use it can tell you wich capsule is the good one.

The MK2 is a spot, forget it for the main pickup.
https://schoeps.de/en/products/colet...mnis/mk-2.html

Ask your dealer to borrow one pair of MK2H and one with MK2S for your next production, choose at the end of your editing.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
True Fred. Ya really gotta listen.

But the internet will give you opinions from people who have used them, which may or may not be of value to the OP.

D.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
I believe Tony built his 4 mic system with the 2H in mind, so you’d be in good shape using it that way.

I personally don’t love the 2h sound, i feel like it ends up focusing on the upper mids in an unattractive way . But I know a lot of people do like that mic so it’s probably just me, or maybe the pres/converters i was using, etc. I really like the mk5 since I’ve had it though, and it accomplishes a similar mission to the 2H as an Omni. 2S I quite like but close-in the HF is noticeably boosted, and for chamber ensembles and solo instruments it can be a bit much. That said, I think it can be a good choice for all-around use, and I’ve used it closer in with vertical orientation on a couple occasions with good success

Mk2 is the other way around, on larger ensembles I found myself reaching for a shelf EQ boost immediately, and in my limited experience the mk2 doesn’t take EQ as well as other flat omnis ive used (4006, km131). My advice would be to only get this if you’re planning to mostly use it on soloists and small ensembles with relatively close placement, or if you’re gonna buy more than one pair of omnis/Omni caps. They do sound lovely though.
Interesting, so far I have always been told to stay away from the MK5 capsule. From the frequency diagram it seems they are sort of in the middle between the mk2h and mk2s (in omni mode). They are more expensive, but might add more flexibility to the kit.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
MK5 switchable omni /cardioid is a universal solution. I really like it and it is worth the money for sure.

My fave is the MK2 for a lot of uses, including main pair and outriggers on the 4-across-the-front recording method. Use it fairly close in.

The MK2 is the best capsule in the world.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
I personally don’t love the 2h sound, i feel like it ends up focusing on the upper mids in an unattractive way .
Interesting, my feeling is the opposite. The boost on both the MK2S and the MK5 starts lower in frequency (in the upper mids) while the 2H is the only one which leaves the mids unmolested. In my view it is the most versatile of the three, at least if you're only considering the Omni mode of the MK5. The 2H can be used both around the critical distance and also up quite close and still sound good in both scenarios.

To my brain, it also triggers something that says "this sounds expensive" while the others don't, even when placed optimally. They still sound great, but they don't usually have that "expensive" quality, whatever it is.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #12
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasbin ➡️
Interesting, my feeling is the opposite. The boost on both the MK2S and the MK5 starts lower in frequency (in the upper mids) while the 2H is the only one which leaves the mids unmolested. In my view it is the most versatile of the three, at least if you're only considering the Omni mode of the MK5. The 2H can be used both around the critical distance and also up quite close and still sound good in both scenarios.

To my brain, it also triggers something that says "this sounds expensive" while the others don't, even when placed optimally. They still sound great, but they don't usually have that "expensive" quality, whatever it is.
Ah, my old m934c caps on Rens-circuited CMMT bodies fit that “expensive-sounding” niche nicely for me ;-)
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
depends a bit on application and approach:

for large orchestras/ensembles or when recording in highly reverberant places, i often like some amount of hf bump while in any other application/when putting mics close to instruments, i much prefer a mostly flat fr.

short: i'm mostly using the 'normal' capsules with flat fr and use electronic filters when needed.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Addict
 
Other omnis TF has used on the 4-mic are KM130 and Rode NT55.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Gear Addict
For solo and small chamber I’ve grown to love the MK2. For 4 across the front of an orchestra, I’ll mix the MK2 flat omnis in the middle with MK2S as the flanks.
I’m inclined to agree with Plush that the flat MK2 might be Schoeps’ best capsule.

Though my current favorite omnis are the Gefell m221 and m102 capsules. The 221 shines on both the Gefell and the josephson c617 body.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Use the MK2 as a main pair frequently for orchestral and chamber music. My favourite Schoeps omni. Very familiar with MK2S. Never heard MK2H.

Last edited by David Spearritt; 1 week ago at 10:16 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta ➡️
For solo and small chamber I’ve grown to love the MK2. For 4 across the front of an orchestra, I’ll mix the MK2 flat omnis in the middle with MK2S as the flanks.
I’m inclined to agree with Plush that the flat MK2 might be Schoeps’ best capsule.

Though my current favorite omnis are the Gefell m221 and m102 capsules. The 221 shines on both the Gefell and the josephson c617 body.
I too love the Josephson C617’s. In case it matters, the C617 has a flatter frequency response (+/- 1dB vs +/- 2dB), higher sensitivity (66 vs 50mV/Pa), and is slightly
quieter (14 vs 15 dB A- weighted).

Here’s a livestream of Mozart 40 and Copland
Appalachian captured with a single pair of 617’s approximately 5ft spaced, 7ft high, pointed at the ceiling in the center (either side of the red carpet in the video) of a COVID-spaced U-shaped orchestra arrangement.
No EQ or effects.

Gordon Preamps to Sonosax SX-M2D2 to laptop running OBS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mBQAJi3T-k
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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mpdonahue's Avatar
There are 5 omni capsules (In order of brightness) 2, 5, 2H, 2S and 2XS (It used to be called an MK3). I find that my favorites are the MK2 and the MK5.
The MK2 is great for stuff that you want to tame some brightness, strings and voices with sibilance. It is ruler flat.
The MK2h has a 2-3 dB bump starting at about 7k. I find that the transition is too high.
The MK5 has the same 2-3 dB lift, but it starts at 3k, which is much more useful if you are trying to add a little presence to stuff like strings and voices. All in all, it is my favorite Schoeps capsule, bar none. The omni is more useable than any of the other omni's and the cardoid has a little more zing than the MK4, which can sound a little dull on some things.
The 2S has a 5-6dB HF lift starting at 6k. I find it too bright for a lot of stuff, and not in a nice way. It is useful for digging out presence in a dull section, but it is not nice to voices or aggressive American violin sections.
The 2XS is not even worth talking about, it is similar to the MK5, but adds 6 dB of boost. Truly painful. It was designed in the analog tape era, when HF saturation solved most of the brightness issues.
As always, YMMV.
All the best,
-mark
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Ever since I tried Mk21’s in AB, I have not used omnis any more. I am always paranoid about getting too much ambience and crowd noise, and have been partial to directional mics because of that. The wide-ish nature of the mk21 seems to give the best blend of cardioid directivity and the spaciousness of omnis, IMHO. Also spectacular as piano spots.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Don S's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been using Schoeps for years and can say that the MK21 and MK2S are my favorite mics and get the most use. The 21's work well in a mini tree, Falkner array, wide ORTF or spot mic with spaced omni. The MK2S is extremely musical and sounds great. There were times I wish the rise wasn't there (when I went close) but simply switch to the MK2.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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RobAnderson's Avatar
 
15 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I have the MK2S from Schoeps, and I will say I find it fairly useful as an "all-rounder" - I don't think there's anything I'd rather use for a Decca Tree, and in many cases where I'd resort to an omni it works pretty well - recording string quartet or viol consort in a church, or recording solo piano "Decca Style" with a tail pair.

That said, I'm not sure it's the most useful omni that I own - I think that title goes to the DPA 4006. Given that I can switch the grilles on that mic, I can either get a flat response (like the MK2) or a diffuse field response (like the MK3 or the km130). But of course, the DPA have a different aesthetic than Schoeps.

I will say that the mk2 was always a little too dark outside the nearfield for me. I believe the MK2S is more useful in more situations for me as a main pair.

The MK2S fills in a nice "in-between" role for all of my other omnis: the mkh8020's (which are flat), the km130's (which are very bright), and the 4006's (which can go either way).
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Gear Addict
I'd like to add that I use the MK2H daily in a 200 seat auditorium (great for chamber music) at Princeton University. They're flown as flanks with a pair of MK4s in ORTF in the center. I really like them in this scenario. I just haven't gotten around to adding them to my personal kit.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Gear Addict
 
FWIW, the MK2S has the most M50-like response when used with a 40mm APE.
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Kevin, did you ever get around to shooting out MK5 against the 934?
I have both and thought the MK5 (a favorite!) sounded rather flat in comparison with the 934.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #25
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimermonk ➡️
Kevin, did you ever get around to shooting out MK5 against the 934?
I have both and thought the MK5 (a favorite!) sounded rather flat in comparison with the 934.
I was just thinking yesterday that I aught to try it out! Not as much time these days for experimentation during sessions as when I was in grad school but if an opportunity shows itself, I’ll give it a try. Though I feel like shooting Rens’ 48v circuit and the vintage caps against schoeps’ stock design might not be fair. Or maybe it would be. Either way, should be informative!
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Really looking forward to getting my 4006's back from Rens this week with his 48V circuit in them.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
The idea of running 934c's on a normal 48v body sounds bloody phenomenal.
My PS lead cables are NEVER long enough!
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
One additional goofball thing to throw out there, and maybe this is premature... a few years ago when I shot out all my omnis together, there was a certain spectrum along which - and I can't exactly explain it... a continuum of "excited clarity" perhaps), the capsule that (at least on initial impression) seemed most adjacent to the 934 was the Rode 45-O. That took me aback. I've not revisited the comparison since -- probably should! It raised my opinion of the Rode capsule, at least on NT6 bodies as for some puzzling reason folks with NT5 insist the two are not alike.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #29
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
I had a similar experience with the nt45o’s a few years ago, where amongst a collection of “better” high-end mics (including twins, 934’s, senn 8000s, colettes) placed around a Hamburg Steinway an almost randomly placed pair on regular nt5 bodies, with schoeps spheres on them and pointing away from the instrument, ended up being my favorite sound. I really should add a pair to the collection at some point, I just wish the bodies and caps were a bit better matched and physically more resilient.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klimermonk ➡️
One additional goofball thing to throw out there, and maybe this is premature... a few years ago when I shot out all my omnis together, there was a certain spectrum along which - and I can't exactly explain it... a continuum of "excited clarity" perhaps), the capsule that (at least on initial impression) seemed most adjacent to the 934 was the Rode 45-O. That took me aback. I've not revisited the comparison since -- probably should! It raised my opinion of the Rode capsule, at least on NT6 bodies as for some puzzling reason folks with NT5 insist the two are not alike.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
I had a similar experience with the nt45o’s a few years ago, where amongst a collection of “better” high-end mics (including twins, 934’s, senn 8000s, colettes) placed around a Hamburg Steinway an almost randomly placed pair on regular nt5 bodies, with schoeps spheres on them and pointing away from the instrument, ended up being my favorite sound. I really should add a pair to the collection at some point, I just wish the bodies and caps were a bit better matched and physically more resilient.
There seem to be a few iterations of the Rode NT5/55/6 family of bodies and caps. When I bought my first matched pair of NT5 cardioid mics, both the bodies and capsules had shiny nickel finishes. When the NT55 came out, the body had a slightly frosted, matte finish...but I think the cardioid capsule remained shiny nickel. However the NT45-O omni capsule (included in the NT55 package, and available separately as a standalone purchase) also had the frosted finish. The cardioid-only NT6 followed the same pattern, with the original nickel finish on the cardioid capsule. My second matched pair of NT5's had frosted-finish cardioid caps

The outer finish of Rode bodies and capsules is of no real bearing or relevance...though it can help one to visually determine the 2 capsule types (if the omni and cards are of differing finishes !)

Both the NT5 and NT55 are named on their website as being " Available as Certified Matched Pair" so we're reliant on the manufacturing tolerances being held in close check. I have no reason to doubt that Rode would be quite attentive to this.

Here's a FAQ related to that (from the NT55 product page):

Q: " I have what is supposed to be a matched pair, but the serial numbers aren't sequential. Is this correct? "

A: Matched pairs from RØDE aren't necessarily (and in almost every case aren't) sequentially serialised. The serial numbers are engraved at the end of the machining process, prior to assembly of the electronics, acoustics and quality assurance. Following these processes, a certain percentage of microphones (depending on model) are matched together to make the matched pair kits. Each matched pair is supplied with a signed and dated certificate listing the two matched serial numbers.

The odds of a given matched pair of mics being 'matched' for both the cardioid AND omni capsules (in the case of NT55, which contains both) ....I'd guess as being average at best ? If the manufacturing tolerances are tight all round, this wouldn't be a significant issue ?

Has anyone here had cause or opportunity to conduct measurements on this family of mics...or had noteworthy experiences, of either good or bad pair matching ?

For reference: http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt55
http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt5
http://www.rode.com/microphones/nt6

Looking at the spec response plots, that's a pretty formidable and broad bell peak centred around 10k for the NT45-O...and an odd shelving dip below 200HZ on the cardioid capsule: https://cdn1.rode.com/nt55_datasheet.pdf

Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 11:54 AM..
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