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I have not done a live on location recording in over a year...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have not done a live on location recording in over a year...

The title says it all.

I though it was because of COVID-19 but I guess no one is having their recitals or concerts recorded anymore in this area. I recently got a phone call that went like this:

The call was from someone who wanted me to do some remote recording for them. I started asking normal question like where and when and they said they were not sure and why did the time matter. I also asked what the person or persons were going to be playing and they said "what difference does that make". OK so I am trying to find out what they want recorded and when and where the recording will be done and so far I have no answers. The person says "I need a firm estimate" and I say I can give you that as soon as you tell me where the recording is going to be, who is performing and when the recording will be. The person says" I am only trying to get an estimate why all the questions" I finally said. Well when you find out the answers to my questions I can give you an estimate. The person says " well if that is the way you are going to be then I will not hire you".

Not sure if it was a joke or a rival company or someone who was obviously new to getting things recorded. I never heard back from them.

I am glad that others on this forum are getting work in. Hopefully when we don't have to worry about COVID-19 anymore things will pickup even more.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
New normal. Concerts down. Weirdness up.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
It's a mafia wedding. Where and when is privileged information.
--scott
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
Not sure if it was a joke or a rival company or someone who was obviously new to getting things recorded. I never heard back from them.

I am glad that others on this forum are getting work in. Hopefully when we don't have to worry about COVID-19 anymore things will pickup even more.
Clearly the person making the enquiry has not been vaccinated...I've heard it re-aligns such behaviour into something much more reasonable COVID-19 stopped existing in 2020 with the extinction of the alpha variant...we're stuck with COVID-21 which isn't going away anytime soon...as per the informed prediction below.

https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/09/...gists-warning/

I don't see any reason to think the landscape is different in other states or nations...to do so is to indulge in unduly optimistic epidreamyology. Sorry to be the burster of bubbles, but....

Last edited by studer58; 4 weeks ago at 01:57 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The OP was just talking to someone who lives in a bubble of privilege, self-regard and delusion. The only alternative would have been to quote a blue-sky number with caveats attached, like this isn't a real number until I hear about a real job. It is possible that this person just wanted a number to settle an argument, and that there never was any potential recording work involved, sorry.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Whatever it was it was somewhat upsetting. I would like to get more work but this person was not giving me the info I needed. As usual I tried to be nice but he would not answer the simplest of questions like where and when.

I have gotten other calls that were also "strange"...

Also got a call from someone last Monday who obviously was drunk or on "something". I answered the phone with "Acoustik Musik, Tom speaking" and this person said in a very slurred voice "I can't hear you", "hello", "hello". I said hello and they said "hello", hello". I said hello and can I help you. The person said "this is a he!! of a way to run a business" and hung up.

I also got a call from someone inquiring about our services. I tell them we can do mastering, restoration, transfers and on location recordings both audio and video and we can do voice over work. The person on the telephone says "well what do you do"?? I said I am not sure what you are asking about since I just gave you a listing of the service we provide. He says "well what do you do". I try to be nice and repeat all the services we provide and then ask him what services he was interested in. He says "well if you are not going to answer my question then - and hangs up. It was not the same person who called me about the remote recording.

Weird times...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
If you have caller ID on your phone you can note their number and refuse to pick up their next call...they're clearly intent on nuisance and wasting your time...simply don't engage further. Could also be a COVID scam call, but that seems unlikely
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Current tactic: I don't answer calls from numbers not in my contact list. If they are really interested in talking to me they can leave a message and I'll call back, or they can text.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, ditto Tom. A major yearly festival gig went bust, most of the folks who know my number have been streaming from their living rooms for over a year, the weekly songwriter thing is now monthly and happening on an outdoor patio where they feel (why?) it's better to do it without any PA at all. I mixed one indoor show this spring but that won't be happening again anytime soon because the county has reinstituted mask mandates. A fellow called me to rent some mics (which I don't normally do but he had a MTSU degree and network credits so I figured he was ok) but then his client borrowed a pair of Schoeps from his university's AV department. I was supposed to be doing some overdubs for an album project last month, but nothing's happened yet... it goes on and on. I don't even know who my potential clients are anymore, so am I still in business?

David
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➑️
Yeah, ditto Tom. A major yearly festival gig went bust, most of the folks who know my number have been streaming from their living rooms for over a year, the weekly songwriter thing is now monthly and happening on an outdoor patio where they feel (why?) it's better to do it without any PA at all. I mixed one indoor show this spring but that won't be happening again anytime soon because the county has reinstituted mask mandates. A fellow called me to rent some mics (which I don't normally do but he had a MTSU degree and network credits so I figured he was ok) but then his client borrowed a pair of Schoeps from his university's AV department. I was supposed to be doing some overdubs for an album project last month, but nothing's happened yet... it goes on and on. I don't even know who my potential clients are anymore, so am I still in business?

David
Sorry to hear.

One LARGE problem around here is that within the past 5 years almost every church, school and college has put in some type of audio and video recording setups so they can offer that service as an "add on" when someone rents the hall or auditorium. That kinda negates the artist or group from hiring an outside person to do the recordings.

The setups range from a Behringer mixer feeding a DAT machine to setups that rival local TV stations. We did a gig at a church two years ago and their AV setup had something like 8 HD remotely operated video cameras, a live 32 input audio console, a control room that most local TV studios would like to have and a all volunteer staff that ran the whole operation. They also had a "no cables on the floor" requirement which made our setup hard to do and I think it was designed to keep outsiders from doing any work in the church. They said it was a "Fire Marshall's request" but ???

I also think that a lot of local groups are having funding problems with the COVID-19 pandemic shutting them down and are looking for ways to still record their concerts but not have to pay for the recording. A good friend went to a concert of a group we use to do and saw an IPAD mounted on a stand in the middle of the auditorium that was "recording the concert" or so it said on a sign attached to the stand. We used to use a whole video setup and audio set up to record this particular group and now they are doing it with an IPAD???? It guess if it works for them. Not sure where this is all going but until we get COVID-19 contained it is going to be a very rocky road..FWIW
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
I started my company, the idea and pursuit during the COVID-19 Era. But, the whole motto and mission statement is, "All the World's a Stage", i figured that was the most appropriate tagline considering my advantageous tactics used in order to fullfill my passion for live music. I just go to the music. I literally, go around town and try to record anything and everything, setting up little concerts and jams, in unique places. For musical passerbys to enjoy and participate. I guess you could call it full on street performamces. I've been able to establish myself amongst the community for the most part by doing this, lately and even more eventually: people have been coming to me... Anyways, my business is called, "7 Ages Music Production LLC".

Oh, as for the whole funding thing and gettin money. My equipments already bought. Its not "top of the line" so to say, but I know how to use it. So, Im able to make enough to make it worth it. Favors and good word I consider payment as well.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
My gig today is likely to be the last "big" event I'll do. It's four screens and projection in the middle of a basketball arena for (in the past) about 5,000 participants, 360 degrees viewing from the "lower" bowl. It didn't happen in 2020, and is down this year to part of one side and two screens/PJs. As I was prepping and enjoying two weeks of go/stop/go/stop/go whiplash from Covid cases numbers (they finally landed on "go" three days ago) I realized... I don't want to do this any more. So, I won't.

That said, one of my 20+year choral clients called for a November recording gig that made me smile. So... I'm gonna dial it back and "retire" to only the work that makes me smile. We'll see how it goes...

Interesting times, these.

Cheers.

HB
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
^ A friend who usually runs the electronics dept. at my local Walmart was standing at the front door handing out masks last week. And again yesterday. I asked him what was going on. Said they were short staffed due to sickness. Having trouble stocking the store. So short staffed they didn't have people to staff the various departments (paint, electronics, sporting goods), and they weren't even answering the phone during part of the day. Mentioned he might be looking for another job if this didn't stop.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #14
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
One LARGE problem around here is that within the past 5 years almost every church, school and college has put in some type of audio and video recording setups so they can offer that service as an "add on" when someone rents the hall or auditorium. That kinda negates the artist or group from hiring an outside person to do the recordings.
That's why I talk to the guys who run PA for operations like that and I tell them that I can use their equipment to make better recordings because I can pay attention to the recording while they are running PA. I get some business from that. Not much recently, but it's a market.
--scott
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The person asking has no Idea if you want $50 or $5000 for your service. You should imagine two cases and give them a high and low estimate. When you don't know, you don't know and need a clue as to the cost. You gave him nothing to work with.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➑️
The person asking has no Idea if you want $50 or $5000 for your service. You should imagine two cases and give them a high and low estimate. When you don't know, you don't know and need a clue as to the cost. You gave him nothing to work with.
The OP (post #1 ) asked a few questions about the context and scale of the potential recording, to be able to give an accurate range (or even a single figure) of costs...but the potential client gave him no background information to base his estimate upon.

Quoting imposes a mutual obligation of basic info sharing on both parties...the 'customer' gave no info to assist that. You're attempting to defend the indefensible party here....the potential client gave him nothing to work with...not even data as basic as a possible or maximum spend budget for the service.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➑️
The person asking has no Idea if you want $50 or $5000 for your service. You should imagine two cases and give them a high and low estimate. When you don't know, you don't know and need a clue as to the cost. You gave him nothing to work with.
Which is WHY I needed more info. I think you are missing the point. If I do not know the where and who and when then I cannot tell the potential client how much it is going to cost. I take pride in our interactions with potential clients and in this case he wanted information (the cost) that I could not give him without some additional info.

We recently got asked to do a remote from a cemetery for a burial. They wanted it streamed live. The cemetery is in the middle of nowhere so cell phone and WIFI are not available. I did some checking and finally told the client that it would be easier to record the ceremony and then put it up on what ever on-line site he chose but he wanted it done "live". I gave him the names of some other video production companies and I don't know if he ever found someone to do it.

We also got asked to video record the erection of a tower at a local college. The client wanted the whole sequence recorded from their arrival at the erection site to their leaving 10 hours later. I gave him my "daily rate" but he said it was too expensive and wanted us to put up the camera and come back 10 hours later and take it down. Our camera can only record a maximum of 4 hours so that would not work AND I am not leaving a 4K HD camera on a tripod for 10 hours with out us being around. The client was not happy but there are limits to what we can an cannot do.

I cannot give an estimate until I know the full extent of the work that needs to be done.

We signed on to do a wedding and I gave the groom's father the estimate based on the information he gave me. The closer we got to the wedding the more he "informed" us of what else he wanted. He originally wanted a two camera shoot of the wedding and the reception. He then decided he wanted us to follow the bride and groom from "waking up" to them leaving on their honeymoon which was a total of about twelve hours. The original was for four hours. Then he wanted a "three camera shoot" and he wanted us to setup a place where the wedding guests could leave a "good wishes" video and audio remembrance. Every time he came up with a new "request" I told him how much additional this would add to the bill and he just nodded his head. So we are a week away from the wedding and just to be on the "safe side" I sent him a revised estimate. He called me and was "very upset" saying this was way over what I had originally estimated and that he thought all of the add-ons were covered under the original estimate. Luckily I kept track of all the request by date and time. He said he would "make sure his friends knew of how we worked" which I took as a threat. So I told him that we would do what we originally contracted for and charge him the estimated price or he could find someone else. He decided to find someone else with the wedding one week away. I don't know how things worked out but I imagine he tried to do the same things he tried to do with us and may have wound up not getting the ceremony recorded.

Estimates are for our protection as well as for the clients...

Last edited by Thomas W. Bethe; 4 weeks ago at 03:34 PM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
It's reasonable to ask a potential client about the scope of the work before quoting a range of fees. If someone won't even provide basic information to start with, I'm not sure that it would be a good idea to work for them no matter what the fee.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Tom...is there something about the state or county you're based in, or the way your advertising is structured...but you seem to attract WAAAY more weird-azz clients and enquiries than is average in this game !
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
Tom...is there something about the state or county you're based in, or the way your advertising is structured...but you seem to attract WAAAY more weird-azz clients and enquiries than is average in this game !
Not sure...but we do get a lot of strange requests and people getting upset when we ask simple questions.

I suspect that since I live in one of the poorest counties in Ohio that it may have something to do with it. Also I live in a college town where the average town's person seems to be caught in a time warp and thinks we are living in the 1940s and thinks that $25.00 is SUPER EXPENSIVE to do anything. As I have said before a lot of the people in town work for the college and the college provides services at prices we cannot compete with. They record a recital at a church for $25.00, do CD replication for $.50 cents each and they have recording setups in every hall and auditorium that people can use for $0.00. Not an ideal setup for us making any money.

I also think that a lot of people see our studio in my house and think that this is some type of retirement setup or part time operation which it is not.

I just went to the local "STEAM ENGINE SHOW" with a friend and saw what they were charging for food so someone is making a lot of money...
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
....and thinks that $25.00 is SUPER EXPENSIVE to do anything...
$25 is a lot when you dont have $25 to spend.....

But among everything so far.
I'm not understanding your dilemma. Just because people dont want to pay you for what you think youre worth, doesnt make them any less of a business person than yourself... so its a win win. You dont want to do any work, and they dont want to pay you. Everyone wins. You dont get cheated for your hard labor and they get to keep their hard earned money.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #22
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➑️
$25 is a lot when you dont have $25 to spend.....

But among everything so far.
I'm not understanding your dilemma. Just because people dont want to pay you for what you think youre worth, doesnt make them any less of a business person than yourself... so its a win win. You dont want to do any work, and they dont want to pay you. Everyone wins. You dont get cheated for your hard labor and they get to keep their hard earned money.
??? I am sorry but this post makes absolutely no sense to me???

Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Whats are you confused about?
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➑️
Whats are you confused about?
The "ideal non-business model" ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I live is a "college town" and everything is mega-expensive here.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➑️
$25 is a lot when you dont have $25 to spend.....

But among everything so far.
I'm not understanding your dilemma. Just because people dont want to pay you for what you think youre worth, doesnt make them any less of a business person than yourself... so its a win win. You dont want to do any work, and they dont want to pay you. Everyone wins. You dont get cheated for your hard labor and they get to keep their hard earned money.
To take someone out to lunch at the local pizza parlor cost $25.00. To buy two tickets and some popcorn and a soft drink @ the movie theater cost $25.00. In today's economy $25.00 is not a lot of money. If the client thinks $25.00 is a lot of money they are dreaming or on another astral plane.

The rest of your reply makes no sense whatsoever. I am in business to make money to support myself. If a client doesn't want to use my services that is fine by me. But I am not in business to not work. End of conversation.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Ok. Thank you for clearing some stuff up.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
My experience is that the PA people are the people you need to befriend. They are the people who will get you hired and in many church organizations they seem to be in control of everything.
--scott
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #29
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➑️
My experience is that the PA people are the people you need to befriend. They are the people who will get you hired and in many church organizations they seem to be in control of everything.
--scott
They also seem to want to keep EVERYTHING "IN HOUSE" and not allow others to come onto their turf. Been there done that. In my example I shared above the church had very strict rules about "cables on the floor" which I think was done to prevent someone else from doing any work in the church.

We also got into a tussle with a person who was in charge of the AV setup for another church and said we could not put our microphones or cameras in the "front of the sanctuary" due to egress concerns. We were taping 40 young singers in a church with about 100 people in attendance and the church sat about 400. Since I was not privy to what the Fire Marshall really said I had to abide but what the head of the AV department told us. It was a very weird experience and one I do not want to repeat. People around here seem to be very territorial.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #30
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➑️
They also seem to want to keep EVERYTHING "IN HOUSE" and not allow others to come onto their turf. Been there done that. In my example I shared above the church had very strict rules about "cables on the floor" which I think was done to prevent someone else from doing any work in the church.

We also got into a tussle with a person who was in charge of the AV setup for another church and said we could not put our microphones or cameras in the "front of the sanctuary" due to egress concerns. We were taping 40 young singers in a church with about 100 people in attendance and the church sat about 400. Since I was not privy to what the Fire Marshall really said I had to abide but what the head of the AV department told us. It was a very weird experience and one I do not want to repeat. People around here seem to be very territorial.
Yes. If these people are against you, you're not going to get work. You need to get these people on your side and get them to understand that your job is to make them look good.
--scott
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