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I have not done a live on location recording in over a year...
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #31
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
Yes. If these people are against you, you're not going to get work. You need to get these people on your side and get them to understand that your job is to make them look good.
--scott
Easy to say, hard to do. Any suggestions???

If I am working a union house I can have the group pay the union to allow me to work in their "facility". I am not sure what to do in a church or school. In some cases these people who are in charge are paid and some are volunteers. They all seem very territorial. I think part of the problem is that they are not at all secure in their positions and are afraid if someone comes in a "shows them up" they will get fired or not be able to do what they want to do. I also think that they don't really want anyone else in their facility for what ever reason.

There is a community college near here. They have a whole auditorium staff, all paid. For the most part they are very nice and easy to work with. They did have one "gentlemen" who always wore a "T" shirt that said "Fu#k everyone as often as possible". He wore that shirt up until the doors opened and then changed into a regular black "T"" shirt. I am not sure how he was able to wear that "T" shirt at a public gathering place with young children in attendance but he did and that basically was his attitude. He would always find some "problem" with our setup and make us redo it. Luckily the last concert we did there I was told he was let go for insubordination. Imagine that.

Suggestions or ways of getting my foot "in the door" would be most welcome.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #32
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
.....

Suggestions or ways of getting my foot "in the door" would be most welcome.
I am coming 'round to the opinion that "gear" in and of itself is almost purely meaningless when it comes to advancing a career-- lately it seems to me that it's 99 1/2 % the connections you've made with aspiring artists.

I just got back from doing sound at a backyard (alright, a backyard that meets the Hudson River, in New Baltimore) "cabaret" concert which seemed pretty ad hoc, even given all the platters of hors d'oeuvre's being passed around by the staff of caterers and wine flowing freely. This was set up by the keyboardist for the afternoon, after wondering if he and the singer needed reinforcement for the crowd of a few dozens.

I'm meeting him tomorrow at his church, to scope out the mic placement for their orchestral concert next Sunday.

I don't even really remember how we first crossed paths, must've been word of mouth, I guess.

Then, this Capital District of New York state sure seems to have a tremendous amount of musical activity going on. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up here?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #33
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson ➡️
I am coming 'round to the opinion that "gear" in and of itself is almost purely meaningless when it comes to advancing a career-- lately it seems to me that it's 99 1/2 % the connections you've made with aspiring artists.

I just got back from doing sound at a backyard (alright, a backyard that meets the Hudson River, in New Baltimore) "cabaret" concert which seemed pretty ad hoc, even given all the platters of hors d'oeuvre's being passed around by the staff of caterers and wine flowing freely. This was set up by the keyboardist for the afternoon, after wondering if he and the singer needed reinforcement for the crowd of a few dozens.

I'm meeting him tomorrow at his church, to scope out the mic placement for their orchestral concert next Sunday.

I don't even really remember how we first crossed paths, must've been word of mouth, I guess.

Then, this Capital District of New York state sure seems to have a tremendous amount of musical activity going on. Maybe I'm just lucky to have ended up here?
Great that you have a plethora of clients. Here it seems that most performers and artist are looking to do their recordings for the least possible money or doing it themselves or using the equipment built in to the venue they are performing in.

We were recording a regional symphony. They were performing in a venue that was about 25 miles from here. We were doing the recordings for $200 as the conductor was having to pay for the recordings out of his own pocket. [It was "a nice thing to do"]. We did them for a season, took a summer break, and we were looking forward to doing the recordings again. But there was a snag. This orchestra wanted to do more "out reach concerts" and decided to do their concerts all over Northern Ohio which was great for them but for us would have been a lot more expensive so we told the conductor that we would have to charge more for our expenses. He was not keen on the idea but he still had us do a few concerts at the old venue for the $200.

We were scheduled to do a concert about 10 miles from here in December. We agreed to do it since it was so close. The day of the concert we had a winter storm blow through here and it dumped lots of snow on the ground and we had 35 mile an hour winds (Wind chill of about 7) and the temperature outside was about 25 degrees and they announced on the TV and radio that there was a LEVEL 3 snow emergency. (All roadways were closed to non-emergency personnel). As soon as I heard the announcement I called the conductor and told him that we would not be recording the concert that night. He said he and his musicians would be there so why couldn't we? I told him about the level 3 snow emergency but he said so "don't get caught".

Anyway that was the last time I had contact with him and his organization. This was my attempt to do something nice for a local arts organization. It did not go the way I expected. Maybe if I had a snow cat (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowcat) and a police escort...I might have thought about doing the recording.

Last edited by Thomas W. Bethe; 3 weeks ago at 11:32 AM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 3 weeks ago
  #34
Maybe think about contracting out all the work that comes through you that you dont want to do. Probably someone else in your area might jump at the opportunity to, "get involved". So then you basically make money just by telling people where to go and what to do.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #35
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➡️
Maybe think about contracting out all the work that comes through you that you dont want to do. Probably someone else in your area might jump at the opportunity to, "get involved". So then you basically make money just by telling people where to go and what to do.
They would do one concert this way and then talk the group into hiring them with out "the middle man" (me) for less money. Been there done that. We normally charge $500 to do a recording of a concert both audio and video and produce a CD and a DVD or a streaming alternative. I have had to hire videographers when I could not use an intern. They want $500 just to show up and we have to provide the equipment. When you tell them that the $500 is what we are getting for the whole gig the either start laughing or say "gee that's to bad" my fee is still $500.

I don't know where you are located but here in the "wilds of Ohio" things are much different and people expect "Hollywood" productions but want to pay for a VHS camera and cassette deck. Thanks for your input.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
We were scheduled to do a concert about 10 miles from here in December. We agreed to do it since it was so close. The day of the concert we had a winter storm blow through here and it dumped lots of snow on the ground and we had 35 mile an hour winds (Wind chill of about 7) and the temperature outside was about 25 degrees and they announced on the TV and radio that there was a LEVEL 3 snow emergency. (All roadways were closed to non-emergency personnel). As soon as I heard the announcement I called the conductor and told him that we would not be recording the concert that night. He said he and his musicians would be there so why couldn't we? I told him about the level 3 snow emergency but he said so "don't get caught".
This is why I still keep a Nagra IV in the kit!
--scott
Old 3 weeks ago
  #37
For less money? Hmmmm. If youre the guy just making the phone calls, take that 500. Then give the person going to location maybe 300. Or 250 even. Basically, a portion of the total. You'll make money by just talking and scheduling. You wont have to go anywhere. As for the getting undercut thing, really nothing to worry about if your product and service is quality. Plus when and if you do it the way i just mentioned, theres really no advantage to "undercutting", if the job is capped at $500 and as a subcontractor you recieve a portion sum of $200-$300 and future work opportunity. On your end you just made $200-$300 just by playing phone tag and reading a few emails.
I live and operate in a college town as well. Home of UW- La Crosse. People here like quality stuff too. People here pay and keep paying for quality product and service.
For example: i met a photographer who had just bought a new fancy camera and wanted to practice with it so he gave me a hour of shoot time for $70. I didnt buy the camera, which would have set me back like $5k+ all in. So i paid $70 to be able to use a pro camera service to add to my product.

Subcontracting.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #38
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by coreyspencer ➡️
For less money? Hmmmm. If youre the guy just making the phone calls, take that 500. Then give the person going to location maybe 300. Or 250 even. Basically, a portion of the total. You'll make money by just talking and scheduling. You wont have to go anywhere. As for the getting undercut thing, really nothing to worry about if your product and service is quality. Plus when and if you do it the way i just mentioned, theres really no advantage to "undercutting", if the job is capped at $500 and as a subcontractor you recieve a portion sum of $200-$300 and future work opportunity. On your end you just made $200-$300 just by playing phone tag and reading a few emails.
I live and operate in a college town as well. Home of UW- La Crosse. People here like quality stuff too. People here pay and keep paying for quality product and service.
For example: i met a photographer who had just bought a new fancy camera and wanted to practice with it so he gave me a hour of shoot time for $70. I didnt buy the camera, which would have set me back like $5k+ all in. So i paid $70 to be able to use a pro camera service to add to my product.

Subcontracting.
I don't know who you work with BUT if I did what you are suggesting it would be the last time the person who did the remote recording would go through me. They would tell the client that they could do the gig for less than they were paying me or maybe for the same price. Thereby taking me out of the loop. Unless this person was "contracted" to do the recording and not try and take the gig away they would do so in a heartbeat. Been there and had that done to me...

In your example of the photographer he got paid for using the camera that belonged to him and you got a chance to use a very expensive camera for an hour. No similarities at all to the topic we are discussing.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #39
Youre already out of the loop, the moment you turn down a gig....
Why would it be the last time you got hired to do a remote recording if all you really needed was someone to go there to record it. Bring it back to you to do quality control (mastering)?
How do you undercut a commissioned job price on your own commission?
And besides, you didnt want that job anyways. Thats why you turned it down, what you did do though is make money off of management and quality control on the job itself. By finding someone whos willing to go and do what you dont want to do or cant do.

I dont think im wrong. But, i also dont think i can explain it in anymore detail or use anymore great examples of how contracting/ subcontracting can work to your advantage.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Corey,

No disrespect but I don't think you understand what is going on in the "real world". Thanks for your input but...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #41
I guess we're on the same page. Although, in the "real world". This seems to be working for me right now.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #42
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe ➡️
Any suggestions???
The Gambler always has good advice.

"Know when to hold 'um, know when to fold 'um. Know when to walk away, know when to run".
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #43
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➡️
The Gambler always has good advice.

"Know when to hold 'um, know when to fold 'um. Know when to walk away, know when to run".
Pretty off-topic, but I never heard if the Gambler had a philosophy about when to bluff, when to yell "fire!" and overturn the table, when to darkly threaten the other players about accomplices waiting just outside...?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #44
Gear Guru
That stuff is in the later verses.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
we are only as good as our last gig
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