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HORUS/HAPI viable alternatives
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Here for the gear
HORUS/HAPI viable alternatives

I'm wondering if anyone has experience doing classical location recording with an AoIP system other than Merging Tech that they were pleased with.

I've researched Dante and AVB pretty extensively, and I have trouble coming up with a collection of network devices that will offer both good, remotely-operated mic pres and an output for a TALKBACK speaker.

I'm interested in the Dante mic pres from Millennia and Grace, but those do not have any outputs for my talkback speaker.

I'm not that interested in the RME AVB options because I'm not wild about their mic pres (I know many people like them, and that they're commonly used in major classical recordings).

I've been using a Metric Halo 3d system recently, but the controller software failed a couple times in some sessions last week, so I'm feeling ready to move on. I've also had some instances of intense, seemingly inexplicable digital noise with this system(?).

I've used a Merging system and have enjoyed it, but the only drawback I see is that you have to invest in a card with 8 outputs just to have a single output for the talkback.

Any opinions on these or other options I'm missing? Thanks!

Last edited by YoRumsfield; 1 week ago at 05:03 PM.. Reason: typos
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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king2070lplaya's Avatar
I personally have an AVB setup with Motu interfaces which I like a lot. definitely preamp interfaces with outputs available here.

At work we use Dante, with various interfaces from Focusrite, Grace, Millennia, DAD, Tascam, Sound Devices, Yamaha, lots of things all networked together. We even have Dante-enabled Fostex speakers for TB, though also some older ones we can feed from other interfaces line-outs.

There's gotta be something on Dante to fit the bill, maybe the Grace 108 or the Aurora (n)?
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Here for the gear
 
The Grace m108 has a stereo headphone output that is accessible from the Dante network.

We built a remote rack with 2x m108s. We split the headphone output of one of them and route one channel to a Fostex 6301 that is mounted in the rack for talkback. The other channel is wired to a 1/4" jack on a rack panel and used for a second talkback speaker or other feed as needed.

The headphone out on the second m108 carries the mix from our console for headphone monitoring from the stage. This also allows a separate talkback into the headphones of a second engineer or assistant who is out on the stage moving mics.

We have the Dante and control networks for the m108s on separate subnets but the same physical LAN. All four ports are patched to an ethernet switch in the rack and we run a single network cable back to our console and DAW (via RME Digiface Dante)

I know some have encountered issues running remote control and Dante on the same network with these preamps but it's working well for us. I have found the browser-based remote more reliable than the dedicated remote app.

-Matt
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmonkey ➡️
The Grace m108 has a stereo headphone output that is accessible from the Dante network.

We built a remote rack with 2x m108s. We split the headphone output of one of them and route one channel to a Fostex 6301 that is mounted in the rack for talkback. The other channel is wired to a 1/4" jack on a rack panel and used for a second talkback speaker or other feed as needed.

The headphone out on the second m108 carries the mix from our console for headphone monitoring from the stage. This also allows a separate talkback into the headphones of a second engineer or assistant who is out on the stage moving mics.

We have the Dante and control networks for the m108s on separate subnets but the same physical LAN. All four ports are patched to an ethernet switch in the rack and we run a single network cable back to our console and DAW (via RME Digiface Dante)

I know some have encountered issues running remote control and Dante on the same network with these preamps but it's working well for us. I have found the browser-based remote more reliable than the dedicated remote app.

-Matt
Matt: thanks for this. two m108's is one option that I've been seriously considering. I really like the sound of Grace pres and converters. Great to hear that you have the talkback working through the headphone port; that opens up some options for sure.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #5
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by king2070lplaya ➡️
I personally have an AVB setup with Motu interfaces which I like a lot. definitely preamp interfaces with outputs available here.

At work we use Dante, with various interfaces from Focusrite, Grace, Millennia, DAD, Tascam, Sound Devices, Yamaha, lots of things all networked together. We even have Dante-enabled Fostex speakers for TB, though also some older ones we can feed from other interfaces line-outs.

There's gotta be something on Dante to fit the bill, maybe the Grace 108 or the Aurora (n)?
Thanks Kevin. I had a MOTU 828mkii way back when, and was always happy with it at that time. I should look into their latest stuff for sure.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoRumsfield ➡️
I'm wondering if anyone has experience doing classical location recording with an AoIP system other than Merging Tech that they were pleased with.

I've used a Merging system and have enjoyed it, but the only drawback I see is that you have to invest in a card with 8 outputs just to have a single output for the talkback.
I do location classical and love the Merging system. Talkback can be arranged from the headphone output of the stage Hapi or Horus, or from an AES output to a DAC on stage, I use an old Benchmark DAC-1 sometimes. There are a few options. It all works so well.

Last edited by David Spearritt; 1 week ago at 10:51 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Using DAD AX32 as a main unit.
Great remote controlled preamps, all possible interfaces can be installed - Dante, MADI, AES, ProTools.
My system is Dante based.
Very solid.

And you can use Audinate AVIO DA adapter for talkback line, if necessary.

Norm

Last edited by [email protected]; 5 days ago at 06:46 AM..
Old 3 days ago
  #8
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RobAnderson's Avatar
 
15 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I've used Dante with all kinds of boxes, for classical and other recording.

I have a Ferrofish A32 Dante at the heart of my rack - it lets me go from just about anything to Dante; and from Dante to just about anything else. Its converters are not the best of the best, but it's usable; plus it can take MADI or ADAT from other converters (a feature I use quite a bit).

It has 32 ins and outs Analog, 32 ins and outs ADAT, 64 of MADI and Dante I/O.

Add Dante Virtual Soundcard and/or Dante Via and mix to taste.
Old 1 day ago
  #9
dtf
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I would consider the Prodigy.mc by DirectOut.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #10
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dizziness's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoRumsfield ➡️
Matt: thanks for this. two m108's is one option that I've been seriously considering. I really like the sound of Grace pres and converters. Great to hear that you have the talkback working through the headphone port; that opens up some options for sure.
I run two m108 and use the headphone out for on-stage monitor/headphone mix with talkback. I’ll probably grab one of those little Dante Fostex monitors at some point.
Old 23 hours ago
  #11
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Once you have decided that Dante is the way to go (I have!) then there are thousands of possible solutions to your talkback issue.

I run (a bunch of) Grace m108s and love their sound and how flawless they are on my AoIP network.

Talkback for me comes via the outputs of the Allen & Heath DT168 Dante stage box (16 inputs and 8 outputs) as well as cueing, stage P/B and conductor P/L.

But that's easy for me because I use an A&H SQ6 for a control room monitor mixer and the T/B just goes where I assign it via Dante Controller. But you could use something as simple as a Dante enabled mic preamp (or Avio input if you already have something like a Sound Devices mic amp) and an Avio output for not a lot of money. Easy. (Oh and Audio Technica even makes a Dante enable Talkback mic base that gives you line-level out over the network. Add an Avio and a powered speaker and Bob's your uncle)

Also, if you decide on the Dante approach, someday soon, you will have a dozen different ways to present T/B (and anything else your heart desires) to the stage. Because there are, did I already say this, thousands of Dante enabled devices from a host of manufacturers that will integrate seamlessly with your network.

Unlike Ravenna, there will be no limitations to what you can attach to the network.

Dante Super-fan-boy here, but it works, works great, and has caused me no breakdowns no matter how complex I make the rig.

D.
Old 16 hours ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Keeping with Merging, there is the Anubis with it's own built-in talkback mic on the unit.

The new Music Mission firmware I think has easy set-up for multiple talk-back routings for band members (either via the Anubis's i/o or via the Hapi/Horus. I think I saw that on the promo video .
Old 9 hours ago | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
Once you have decided that Dante is the way to go (I have!) then there are thousands of possible solutions to your talkback issue.
Agreed, for those who can operate within its rate limitations. For those desiring to record in DSD, or 352.8/384KHz PCM, or prefer the Merging sound, the Horus/Hapi "alternatives" and networks provide no support.

Tom
Old 6 hours ago | Show parent
  #14
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailspn ➡️
For those desiring to record in DSD, or 352.8/384KHz PCM, or prefer the Merging sound, the Horus/Hapi "alternatives" and networks provide no support.

Tom
Very true.

D.
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