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Chamber orchestra and piano mic'ing
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Chamber orchestra and piano mic'ing

Hello,

I will be recording a chamber orchestra in 5.1.
I would like to use a decca tree.
It’s not classical music, it’s more of a film music.
We will use a fantastic sounding Yamaha piano.

I won’t have much time to adjust the microphones, so I should find a good solution right away. Can you suggest suitable starting points for placing musicians and microphones?


The band will have 10 members:

Piano

I. Violin
II. Violin
Viola
Cello
Double Bass

Bassoon
Clarinet
Oboa - English horn
Flute



The recording will be in a concert hall with pretty good acoustics.
Stage size: 15m (50ft) x 9m (30ft)

Microphones available:
3x Schoeps MK 2s
2x Schoeps MK 2
2x Royer R121
1x Noname, but good ribbon mic.
2x Neumann km 184
30x Line Audio CM3 (cardioid)
4x Line Audio OM3 (omni)
Dynamic microphones

Thank you for your suggestions!
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
depends entirely on the composition and on who's going to mix...

if i'd be given the choice, i'd probably use the schoeps for l/c/r and ls/rs, so not in decca style, add a pair of om3's each for medium distance and rear ambis, use the km184's on piano and everyone else would get a cm3.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 1 week ago at 10:13 AM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
depends entirely on the composition and on who's going to mix...

if i'd be given the choice, i'd probably use the schoeps for l/c/r and ls/rs, so not in decca style, add a pair of om3's each for medium distance and rear ambis, use the km184's on piano and everyone else would get a cm3.
How do you mean this mic arrangement?
I don't know, if the piano is under the main mics, or hide it back.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #4
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
piano behind string and wind instruments (as seen from the conductor's perspective).
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Gear Addict
 
apotheosis's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Keep it simple, keep it safe.
Omni pair for the strings (or small tree, as you wish) with the 2s. Winds behind strings as in orchestral setup. Spot all with cardioids, probably you will not need the string spots if you placed the mains well.
Piano in front, use the other omni pair in AB40 or so for the piano, not too close but not too fair either. Mix to taste in post.
In any case: use the best mics for piano and main string sound.
Old 6 days ago | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis ➡️
Keep it simple, keep it safe.
Omni pair for the strings (or small tree, as you wish) with the 2s. Winds behind strings as in orchestral setup. Spot all with cardioids, probably you will not need the string spots if you placed the mains well.
Piano in front, use the other omni pair in AB40 or so for the piano, not too close but not too fair either. Mix to taste in post.
In any case: use the best mics for piano and main string sound.
"Piano in front" How do you mean it? Exactly where on the stage?

Ok, I use the three 2s for a small tree (how small for this chamber orchestra?).
The two MK2 for RS-LS for 5.1.
The two Royers for piano.
CM3 for spots.
Right?
Old 6 days ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 
David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If it's not a piano concerto, I don't want the piano in front. Too much leakage of everything into everything. With such a small ensemble, I'd also expect to be doing multiple passes on the strings and I'd want my setup to facilitate that.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree with David and Deedeeyeah, piano in front will create a situation where the strings will be crushed by the piano.
Unless you have a bigger string section and use an overhead ribbon-type-ersatz-deccatree.

BUT, are you sure you only have five string ? Or do you mean five sections ?
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick ➡️

BUT, are you sure you only have five string ? Or do you mean five sections ?
He says 10 players in the orchestra. Seems very doable to me but I agree. Piano to the rear!

D.
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
He says 10 players in the orchestra. Seems very doable to me but I agree. Piano to the rear!

D.
I know, but 10 players plus piano is a chamber music ensemble, not an orchestra. If you have string sections, that is an orchestra. Hence my confusion. And it would have big consequences on the original question.

So what is it, an orchestra or not ?
If not, does it need to sound like one ?
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
First question? Clearly not.
Second question? Still to be answered.

D.,
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick ➡️
I know, but 10 players plus piano is a chamber music ensemble, not an orchestra. If you have string sections, that is an orchestra. Hence my confusion. And it would have big consequences on the original question.

So what is it, an orchestra or not ?
If not, does it need to sound like one ?
Sorry for my bad english, it is not an orchestra.
It is a string quintet with a wood quartet + a piano.

It don't need to sound like an orchestra, but I plan to double the strings. (but the bass)
Old 5 days ago | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by apotheosis ➡️
Keep it simple, keep it safe.
Omni pair for the strings (or small tree, as you wish) with the 2s. Winds behind strings as in orchestral setup. Spot all with cardioids, probably you will not need the string spots if you placed the mains well.
Piano in front, use the other omni pair in AB40 or so for the piano, not too close but not too fair either. Mix to taste in post.
In any case: use the best mics for piano and main string sound.
I have little experience in such recordings and I won’t have much time to adjust the microphones. What size tree on what height do you suggest as a starting point?
Old 5 days ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Too small an ensemble for a tree, IMO. I've never quite understood why film people always default to a tree when it's going to get split to L&R so the center channel can be reserved for dialog.
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