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Accidentally recorded main pair half cardioid and half omni
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Accidentally recorded main pair half cardioid and half omni

Hi, I finished 3 sessions and realized I accidentally had one of my main-pair mics in cardioid mode with the other in omni. It sounded wrong in test recordings, but I thought it might be just a level issue that I could fix later, and I ran out of time to fix it. :-(

Fortunately it's not a super reverberant room, but of course the omni-mic channel captured way more room noise and higher level. If I pan away from that channel, the image starts sounding even more smeared. It's also just about impossible to blend the spot mic sound with this omni–cardioid blend.

Is there any way to salvage this situation? I have spot mics for piano + voice, and I considered using just those, but they're lower-quality mics and too close (4ft). The best sound is undoubtedly on the main pair. I tried pretending it was 1950 and just using the omni-mic feed as a mono channel, but that kind of kills me…

Ideas? :-(
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
how about using but the cardioid (of the two main mics) and feed it into an efx on a mono in/(pseudo) stereo out setting?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
What about doubling each channel, and then panning each one hard left-right. Then level match to taste. It'll basically be a double mono recording, but at least both sides have the same amount of each mic in the mix.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Use subtractive eq to get rid of the room noise in the omni track. Then, copy the Omni track to a new track and use a low pass to get rid of everything above about 100hz and pan it and blend it with the cardioid track.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Earcatcher's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would try to run the cardioid channel through my Bricasti with a room tuned as much as possible like what you hear on the omni channel to balance out their perceived space feeling. Use only the same channel of the reverb out as the cardioid is on. You don't want to add reverb to the channel that the omni is on. Balance overall loudness of both channels and it should work quite well.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
To help you better, what arrangement were the mics set up in? coincident, ORTF, near-spaced, angle between mics?
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #7
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher ➡️
I would try to run the cardioid channel through my Bricasti with a room tuned as much as possible like what you hear on the omni channel to balance out their perceived space feeling. Use only the same channel of the reverb out as the cardioid is on. You don't want to add reverb to the channel that the omni is on. Balance overall loudness of both channels and it should work quite well.
Wow, it'd be incredible if this works! I considered this but figured it would inevitably lead to a phasey sound due to not matching the reverb exactly. Unfortunately I only have PhoenixVerb. Is now the time to finally upgrade my reverb to something professional, or do I have a hope of achieving this in software?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Steps to create the best stereo,:
Assume the cardiod was the “left” mic and the omni was the “right” mic.
Any omni mic is not fully omni at high frequencies,
and the low frequency extends below that of cardiod.
1.Check the low frequency roll-off of the cardiod and and using this roll-off create a low-pass for the omni signal and send this low frequency omni signal to BOTH of the new synthesized left and right channels.
2. Take the Cardiod as a temp left channel and a hi-pass of the omni (to capture everything except the low frequencies in step 1 above) as a temp. right channel and then adjust to achieve a balance in level.
and then use eg Voxengo’s free MSED plugin
in Inline Mode to optimize the stereo width.
If there is too much of a character difference (
reverberance between the Cardiod and the high-passed omni then you should try some reverb and or De-reverb to get the two channels close BEFORE level adjustment and before doing the Mid-Side processing.
3. Combine the adjusted Left and Right signals from step 2 with the low frequency component from step 1 to create the new synthesized Left and Right channels.
Good luck!
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #9
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie ➡️
To help you better, what arrangement were the mics set up in? coincident, ORTF, near-spaced, angle between mics?
They were spaced ~10", with ~45º between mics…and already too far away due to floor layout (steps)... Clearly amateur hour on my part.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS ➡️
They were spaced ~10", with ~45º between mics…and already too far away due to floor layout (steps)... Clearly amateur hour on my part.
Thanks, there should be some good stereo info and especially at higher frequencies.
Since the mics are too far away, I would suggest some Dereverb on the omni in step #2 in my post above.
You may also want a bit of high frequency boost on both of the final left and right channels.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS ➡️
Is there any way to salvage this situation? I have spot mics for piano + voice, and I considered using just those, but they're lower-quality mics and too close (4ft). The best sound is undoubtedly on the main pair. I tried pretending it was 1950 and just using the omni-mic feed as a mono channel, but that kind of kills me…
Pick one of the two main mikes... run it through an Orban stereo synthesizer or whatever your available software equivalent is. Now you have a distant and diffuse stereo field across the front that sounds deep but doesn't have anything in particular centered.

NOW, bring up the spot mikes, panned a little off-center. Now you have the vocal and piano up front and center with the diffuse room sound around it. It's not real but you'd be surprised how well it can pass.
--scott
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Thank you all! Even just with PhoenixVerb applied to the right channel and some gentle EQ, this sounds totally usable for my purposes. Really appreciate the help.
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