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Millennia vs. Grace
Old 15th June 2021
  #1
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🎧 15 years
Millennia vs. Grace

Greetings.

Looking to add another 8 channels to the racks. It will either be a Grace or Millennia.

For those of you that have experience with both, which is your preference and why?

I'm not looking for other suggestions; just limited to those two.

Thanks in advance.
-09
Old 15th June 2021
  #2
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
which models?
Old 15th June 2021 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
which models?
Mill HV-3D
Grace m108.

I have one of each now. Like both just about equally; interested in the experiences of others as well.

-09
Old 15th June 2021
  #4
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🎧 15 years
I had an hv-3d for a few years and loved it - pure clean gain. John lagrou provided the best customer service in my entire career.
Old 15th June 2021
  #5
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🎧 10 years
I've had both as well, and my experience is like JNorman's but on the other side.

I had no issues with the Millenia HV-3D preamps but prefer the Grace m108 for a couple of reasons. First, they are 1U and second, their method of enabling Dante is much simpler. Oh and they sound pristine, no noise and a completely neutral "sound", which is to say, no "sound" at all. They handle my few ribbon mics with ease straight in.

And Grace customer service is also among the best I have experienced in the audio gear world. Direct contact with the engineers, quick replies to questions and quick turn around on repairs. TU!

I would love a chance to hear the new Millennia HV316 1U Dante 16-channel units. Great looking design. But since I am already full-up with m108s (well, I might spring for channels 25-32 some day), there is probably no way I will ever buy one. It would be an interesting shootout if I were just starting out. 32 channels of the Millennia would work out cheaper per channel and having 16 remote control channels (the Graces are remote control as well) in 1U would be a space-saver as well. Good work, Millennia.

D.

Oh and one more thing about the m108 units. If I am only needing an 8 inputs or less recording, the USB out on the back of the m108 into my iPad running Auria Pro gives me a simple 8-channel backup with no hassle. I run it now as a matter of course because, well, why not?
Old 15th June 2021
  #6
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🎧 15 years
I know lots of people love their Millennias, but to me they have a "tell," a je ne sais quois that I don't care for. Graces, to me, sound fine.
Old 16th June 2021 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 5 years
i did get to use both too (and also grace's earlier model and millenia's twin topogy gear) and remember a fairly extensive comparison i did which included a series of other high-quality preamps(/converters)...


not least for pratical reasons (such as having the option to use different formats at the same time), i'm gladly sticking to my remotely controllable studer preamps/converters (with or without transformers and with or without variable level analog outputs)...

...but frankly, i consider the effect of the preamps on the overall sound not to be that much important, certainly not when using high impedance/high output ldc's; therefore, i'm happy to use a large variety of preamps old and new if not using my own gear (which includes a few pieces from grace and millennia btw).

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 16th June 2021 at 11:10 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 16th June 2021
  #8
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🎧 10 years
I went for grace 801 when they came out. 2 channels is enough for supper clean preamps for me. I now just have a 201.

Would rather have color preamps (transformers and tubes) for most things. I can see 8 for drum work is that's the sound you want or if you use a bunch of ribbons. They are perfect preamps for ribbons or tube mic's with strong color.
Old 16th June 2021
  #9
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🎧 15 years
About 25 years ago, I extensively auditioned both the Grace and Millennia; I went with the Millennia. I now have 12 channels of Millennia pres and I have been quite happy with them.
Old 16th June 2021
  #10
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David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
OP already has both preamps he's considering, so why does he need opinions from random people on Gearspace?

Like @ wildplum , I have 12 channels of Millennia and no regrets. I also have two Grace 103 channel strips. Both preamps are excellent. Both companies offer great customer service. I even know the founders of both. Can I draw a sonic distinction? Yes, but it is so minor that it didn't factor into my channel strip decision: I made my choice based on a pair of m103's taking half the rack space of a pair of STT-1's.

If I had both a Millennia HV-3D and a Grace m801mkII in the rack on location, I would tend to use Millennia channels for the main pair and any other mics placed at a distance. But I might pick the Grace Designs channels for spots, especially if the instrument had any tendency to sound edgy or harsh. This is just my preference; I think the OP should trust his own ears.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 16th June 2021 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➡️
OP already has both preamps he's considering, so why does he need opinions from random people on Gearspace?
Random.....you make us sound like something Schroedinger's cat dragged in ?

Nay.... we're all highly intentional people, no uncertainty principles apply here !
Old 16th June 2021
  #12
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David Rick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Personally, I'm feeling rather stochastic this afternoon.

Honestly, these preamps both sit in the clean, uncolored corner of the sonic plane. They aren't identical, but they are more alike than almost any other pair of preamps we've ever discussed here. If the OP can't decide between them after owning both, he should probably just flip a coin.
Old 16th June 2021
  #13
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🎧 10 years
True. Owning both, just listen to choose which one you like better. The OP's question seems almost like a troll. Hmm.

D.
Old 17th June 2021 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
Owning both, just listen to choose which one you like better.
D.
maybe its more than simply that. for example, maybe he wanted to know which kinds of situations people prefer one over the other. i can think of a few others examples like this. maybe he thinks such info will help him make a more informed decision.
Of course, until he himself clarifies things, i'm "just sayin'".
Old 17th June 2021
  #15
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🎧 15 years
Wow. It's amazing to me how on this forum a simple question can be quickly misconstrued and deteriorated into me being a troll. "He's asking a question... TROLL! HE'S A TROLL!" <cut to Monty Python "she's a witch" scene>

Isn't a forum meant for questions, sharing of experiences, and exchanging knowledge?

I know which one I prefer and I know which I'll be adding. It's an interesting area of usage/knowledge/discussion, so the thought occurred to me "I wonder if anyone else has been in this situation and if so, which they chose?" Curiosity.

Just a simple question which I hoped would lead to a simple and interesting discussion. Not looking for anyone to make the decision for me; as I said, I've already made the decision.

I am not associated with either company. I am not looking for suggestions on preamps other than Grace or Millennia. I am not looking for someone to decide for me. Just a simple question in search of an interesting sharing of experience for those who've been in the same position. Thanks to those of you who've shared your experiences with both; I find it interesting for sure.

My experience: I've had Millennias for at least 12-13 years. Like them very much. Have compared them with other wire-with-gain type clean pres over the years and for me, I always prefer Millennia. The Grace arrived here about six months ago and I'm surprised at how much I like it. Both pres are super close in sound. I think, and this is my opinion only, that the Grace is a bit less harsh in the top end and just a measure more resonant or open in the low bass regions. Just the tiniest bit though.

Thanks again.
-09
Old 17th June 2021
  #16
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tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
So, yeah, I get your point. I was probably a little harsh (unlike Grace preamps) in my assessment of the OP's first question.

Later in the thread, after the OP told us he already has experience with both preamps, the original question seemed, well, a bit odd.

Maybe just saying you are interested in a discussion about what people like and don't like about two products would be simpler and illicit a more lively response.

D.
Old 17th June 2021 | Show parent
  #17
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Omicron_9's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
So, yeah, I get your point. I was probably a little harsh (unlike Grace preamps) in my assessment of the OP's first question.

Later in the thread, after the OP told us he already has experience with both preamps, the original question seemed, well, a bit odd.

Maybe just saying you are interested in a discussion about what people like and don't like about two products would be simpler and illicit a more lively response.

D.
Thanks, tourtelot.

Perhaps you are correct that asking what folks like/don't like about those two pres might have resulted in a more interesting discussion. That was my intent and in what I was interested. Good suggestion and noted.

Thanks again.
-09
Old 18th June 2021 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omicron_9 ➡️
Just a simple question which I hoped would lead to a simple and My experience: I've had Millennias for at least 12-13 years. Like them very much. Have compared them with other wire-with-gain type clean pres over the years and for me, I always prefer Millennia. The Grace arrived here about six months ago and I'm surprised at how much I like it. Both pres are super close in sound. I think, and this is my opinion only, that the Grace is a bit less harsh in the top end and just a measure more resonant or open in the low bass regions. Just the tiniest bit though.
I agree with you that the HV-3's have a very tiny bit of edge to them. It doesn't make them sound "colored" in any way and, as I mentioned above, I find that edge to be generally a desirable thing when I'm putting mics out in a hall, as it maintains a sense of intimacy. With a close mic on something that's already strident, it can be too much, but it can also be a marvelous thing on a lead vocal. When it's too much I like the Grace which avoids the edge, but at the risk of sometimes sounding too vanilla. My own personal theory is that these preamp characteristics reflect the kind of recording that each designer most commonly did at the time they designed them: John LaGrou was recording the Sacramento Symphony; Michael and Eben Grace were sticking microphones right in front of mandolins.

I haven't made a careful comparison of the bottom ends (they're both slamming good, IMO) but I'd guess the difference is that the Millennia is an (excellent) AC-coupled design and the Grace ditches most of the capacitors in favor of servo-controlled DC cancellation. (The phantom blocking caps are still there, but they can be bypassed in ribbon mode.) Both preamps are transformer-less; a choice which affects the low end more than any other design decision in my experience.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 18th June 2021 | Show parent
  #19
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Omicron_9's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➡️
I agree with you that the HV-3's have a very tiny bit of edge to them. It doesn't make them sound "colored" in any way and, as I mentioned above, I find that edge to be generally a desirable thing when I'm putting mics out in a hall, as it maintains a sense of intimacy. With a close mic on something that's already strident, it can be too much, but it can also be a marvelous thing on a lead vocal. When it's too much I like the Grace which avoids the edge, but at the risk of sometimes sounding too vanilla. My own personal theory is that these preamp characteristics reflect the kind of recording that each designer most commonly did at the time they designed them: John LaGrou was recording the Sacramento Symphony; Michael and Eben Grace were sticking microphones right in front of mandolins.

I haven't made a careful comparison of the bottom ends (they're both slamming good, IMO) but I'd guess the difference is that the Millennia is an (excellent) AC-coupled design and the Grace ditches most of the capacitors in favor of servo-controlled DC cancellation. (The phantom blocking caps are still there, but they can be bypassed in ribbon mode.) Both preamps are transformer-less; a choice which affects the low end more than any other design decision in my experience.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Thanks, David.
Interesting observations.
Old 18th June 2021 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rick ➡️
My own personal theory is that these preamp characteristics reflect the kind of recording that each designer most commonly did at the time they designed them: John LaGrou was recording the Sacramento Symphony; Michael and Eben Grace were sticking microphones right in front of mandolins.
This makes a lot of sense to me- and may explain why, many years ago (too many to remember exact thinking) I picked the Millennia. My intent was (and still is) to use them primarily for classical music recordings (like LaGrou's primary use).
For things like mandolin and guitar, I lean more towards tubes; Neumann KM 54 or M269 into Mastering Labs or Demeter mic pres (though I admit to more than occasionally using the KM54 or 84/Millennia combo for mandolin).
Old 19th June 2021
  #21
0VU
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I have both Grace (m801, m201) and Millennia (HV3D) and I like and use them both.

Of the two, I think I generally find the Graces marginally more widely useful than the Millennias, simply because I find that with bright, hard, or very 'loud' sounding sources, the Millennias have a slight tendency to become a little bit shouty and slightly hard sounding, which the Grace preamps don't do as much. They don't lack anything, they just don't emphasise the edge like the Millennias can. It's not horrible or a night and day difference, and it certainly wouldn't stop me using any of them, it's just being extra picky because I have both and I can be fussy. There are times when the Graces can seem a little soft or unfocussed compared to the Millennias which, sometimes, can seem to be resolving more detail but, heard in isolation, either would be more than acceptable. Having both gives the luxury of choosing between two different versions of ideal, one of which may be preferred in certain circumstances over the other but neither is going to be a problem.

They're all superb preamps in the super clean and more or less neutral vein and I've had absolutely top notch service from both companies and wouldn't hesitate to recommend any of them to someone looking for a clean, neutral and detailed preamp.

There again, I prefer Crookwood or Gordon to either of them. But that wasn't the OP's question.
Old 19th June 2021
  #22
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Mentioning the Crookwood preamps and ones like the DAV Broadhurst Gardens; it sure would be nice to sample those.

But as, at this time, I am well and truly constrained in the Dante corral, it is nice to know that I am losing little, perhaps even infinitesimal, with the two great choices of Grace and Millennia.

I think, if I were in a studio situation where access to the front of the preamp wasn't so hard, I would really like to hear, especially, the DAVs. But since my preamps live on stage, often FFA (far, far, away), not being Dante enabled and remote controlled makes the other choices non-starters.

D.

Last edited by tourtelot; 3 weeks ago at 05:57 PM..
Old 19th June 2021 | Show parent
  #23
0VU
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
Mentioning the Crookwood preamps and ones like the DAV Broadhurst Gardens; it sure would be nice to sample those.

But as, at this time, and am well and truly constrained in the Dante corral, it is nice to know that I am losing little, perhaps even infinitesimal, with the two great choices of Grace and Millennia.

I think, if I were in a studio situation where access to the front of the preamp wasn't so hard, I would really like to hear, especially, the DAVs. But since my preamps live on stage, often FFA (far, far, away), not being Dante enabled and remote controlled makes the other choices non-starters.

D.
I've used Crookwood preamps since 1992 and the remote control was one of the things that first attracted me to them. That and the sound quality and backup service from the company. I never really got into the DAV preamps as I didn't feel they offered anything I couldn't already do and, whilst undoubtedly good, for me, they didnt really stand out for anything. Just nice, quiet enough, inoffensive, neutral to slightly warm sounding preamps. I'd never refuse to use them but my money went elsewhere.

The other remote controlled preamps I've had for the same time are a bit more unusual - an 8 channel rack of Creation preamps. Stunningly good sound in the Crookwood/Grace/Millennia style and some of the most over engineered and well built (and heavy!) kit I know of. I'd love to have more of those but they're pretty rare and I haven't seen any for sale since the Sony Classical auction around 20 years ago.

I still use both occasionally but I much prefer the convenience of using things which talk MADI/Ravenna/Dante.

My Grace 801 are the remote version (801R?) and they still get some use but the m201 and Millennias are rarely used these days as, like you, I massively prefer having preamps as close as possible to mics - so at the stage or in the roof of the hall. (On sessions that can be at the base of the stands - Crookwood Paintpots being particularly good for that, albeit without data outputs!) The m201 and Millennias might come out on sessions where I can set them up in the room as I've got more control over access but I have to admit, probably unwisely on this site, that I'm not usually actually that bothered about the minutiae of the differences between Merging, Crookwood, Millennia, Grace, Creation, etc. preamps. Yes, they're all different but really not so different that I need to get tied up over which to choose and that decision usually comes down to factors other than the sound of the preamps.

Until I'm getting up to channel counts which can't be covered by 72 channels of Merging preamps (I have 12 of Crookwood, 16 of 801R, 8 of Creation and 32 of Focusrite MP8R plus 8 of HV-3D and plenty of other assorted non remote controlled things) then I rarely take more than one type of preamp out on a job. It'd be pretty unusual on classical or acoustic jobs (which are most of my work) where I want anything other than clear, clean, reasonably neutral, extremely reliable and, ideally, remote controllable amplification, which can be delivered by pretty much any of my main preamps (except perhaps the Focusrites which are more coloured, though not horribly and are still perfectly useable for anything I need to do). If the preamps can directly drive and be controlled over a MADI, Dante or Ravenna link then so much the better as, for me, the time and effort saved in running (sometimes hundreds of metres of) fibre, co-ax, or Cat data lines rather than dozens of channels of copper multicore, trumps any argument over the tiny differences between top quality, broadly similarly neutral preamps.

I have three Hapis and two Horuses so, to use the mic in/line out preamps over data links, I can always deploy some of the Merging kit to use the excellent AD conversion as front end "stageboxes" but, at that point, I can't see a reason not to use the Merging mic pres as well and save the extra time and work needed to transport and set up something else, however good they may be.

Maybe I'm getting lazy(/ier) but as I've been rationalising my kit stocks over the last few years, I don't really see a need to have so many minutely different preamps any more. Especially if they don't support remote control and audio transmission over a simple data interface. Some I might keep for sentimental reasons (Crookwoods and Creations probably) but I'll sell most of them as and when any ongoing projects which use them are completed. I could probably dump them now and standardise on one type without affecting the ongoing things as the differences would probably be indistinguishable in practical terms but why bother when I already have the kit and it's all paid for.
Old 21st June 2021 | Show parent
  #24
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0VU ➡️
I've used Crookwood preamps since 1992 and the remote control was one of the things that first attracted me to them. That and the sound quality and backup service from the company. I never really got into the DAV preamps as I didn't feel they offered anything I couldn't already do and, whilst undoubtedly good, for me, they didnt really stand out for anything. Just nice, quiet enough, inoffensive, neutral to slightly warm sounding preamps. I'd never refuse to use them but my money went elsewhere.

The other remote controlled preamps I've had for the same time are a bit more unusual - an 8 channel rack of Creation preamps. Stunningly good sound in the Crookwood/Grace/Millennia style and some of the most over engineered and well built (and heavy!) kit I know of. I'd love to have more of those but they're pretty rare and I haven't seen any for sale since the Sony Classical auction around 20 years ago.

I still use both occasionally but I much prefer the convenience of using things which talk MADI/Ravenna/Dante.

My Grace 801 are the remote version (801R?) and they still get some use but the m201 and Millennias are rarely used these days as, like you, I massively prefer having preamps as close as possible to mics - so at the stage or in the roof of the hall. (On sessions that can be at the base of the stands - Crookwood Paintpots being particularly good for that, albeit without data outputs!) The m201 and Millennias might come out on sessions where I can set them up in the room as I've got more control over access but I have to admit, probably unwisely on this site, that I'm not usually actually that bothered about the minutiae of the differences between Merging, Crookwood, Millennia, Grace, Creation, etc. preamps. Yes, they're all different but really not so different that I need to get tied up over which to choose and that decision usually comes down to factors other than the sound of the preamps.

Until I'm getting up to channel counts which can't be covered by 72 channels of Merging preamps (I have 12 of Crookwood, 16 of 801R, 8 of Creation and 32 of Focusrite MP8R plus 8 of HV-3D and plenty of other assorted non remote controlled things) then I rarely take more than one type of preamp out on a job. It'd be pretty unusual on classical or acoustic jobs (which are most of my work) where I want anything other than clear, clean, reasonably neutral, extremely reliable and, ideally, remote controllable amplification, which can be delivered by pretty much any of my main preamps (except perhaps the Focusrites which are more coloured, though not horribly and are still perfectly useable for anything I need to do). If the preamps can directly drive and be controlled over a MADI, Dante or Ravenna link then so much the better as, for me, the time and effort saved in running (sometimes hundreds of metres of) fibre, co-ax, or Cat data lines rather than dozens of channels of copper multicore, trumps any argument over the tiny differences between top quality, broadly similarly neutral preamps.

I have three Hapis and two Horuses so, to use the mic in/line out preamps over data links, I can always deploy some of the Merging kit to use the excellent AD conversion as front end "stageboxes" but, at that point, I can't see a reason not to use the Merging mic pres as well and save the extra time and work needed to transport and set up something else, however good they may be.

Maybe I'm getting lazy(/ier) but as I've been rationalising my kit stocks over the last few years, I don't really see a need to have so many minutely different preamps any more. Especially if they don't support remote control and audio transmission over a simple data interface. Some I might keep for sentimental reasons (Crookwoods and Creations probably) but I'll sell most of them as and when any ongoing projects which use them are completed. I could probably dump them now and standardise on one type without affecting the ongoing things as the differences would probably be indistinguishable in practical terms but why bother when I already have the kit and it's all paid for.
THIS!

[except that i do use (remotely controlled) studer preamps/converters - two versions: with and without analog direct outputs and transformers - of which i have as many that i won't ever care about getting any additional preamps anymore]
Old 22nd June 2021 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
Mentioning the Crookwood preamps and ones like the DAV Broadhurst Gardens; it sure would be nice to sample those.

But as, at this time, and am well and truly constrained in the Dante corral, it is nice to know that I am losing little, perhaps even infinitesimal, with the two great choices of Grace and Millennia.

I think, if I were in a studio situation where access to the front of the preamp wasn't so hard, I would really like to hear, especially, the DAVs. But since my preamps live on stage, often FFA (far, far, away), not being Dante enabled and remote controlled makes the other choices non-starters.

D.
If you're interested in the imperative which saw Mick Hinton's DAV BG1 mic preamp evolve into the 8 micpre BG8, check out the opening minute of this interview with David Gilmour's engineer Andy Jackson...on board Gilmour's floating Astoria Studio:

https://youtu.be/RiWUZ56LLLA

Clearly he was so impressed with the sound he immediately ordered 64 channels....for tour recording purposes !

Last edited by studer58; 22nd June 2021 at 07:14 AM..
Old 22nd June 2021
  #26
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
BG8? No Dante, no remote. No good (for me).

D.
Old 22nd June 2021
  #27
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GIACOMO-_'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Grace or Millennia? GML.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #28
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omicron_9 ➡️
Greetings.

Looking to add another 8 channels to the racks. It will either be a Grace or Millennia.

For those of you that have experience with both, which is your preference and why?

I'm not looking for other suggestions; just limited to those two.

Thanks in advance.
-09
Funny, Ive had the opposite experience from many replies here. I have both the grace 801 MKI and the millennia HV3D. Maybe the MKII sounds different, I am talking about MKI. I find the grace to be noticeably bright, sometimes edgy, compared to the Millennia, which always feels completely transparent and open to me. I’ve had to switch away from Grace for bright sources like brass. Millennia is fast, HUGE on bass guitar. So natural on drums. The preamp disappears and you hear differences between your mics that you never noticed. Stereo imaging is so real. The grace uses a monolithic opamp IC while the Millennia is fully discrete and maintains the balanced signal from input to output, a more sophisticated circuit. Millennia is much closer to a “wire with gain” using fewer transistors than the Grace IC design. The Grace preamp section schematic is not an original design but simply the IC manufacturer’s recommended circuit. Grace got a lot of heat for that over the years. Grace used to be significantly more expensive but now the MKII comes in the same as Millennia, not a coincidence I believe. I’ve never understood the claim that the Grace is transparent. They are kinda bright and forward. Again talking about MKI here. If you need that you may like them. I’m told you don’t see them in Nashville, for what that is worth.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #29
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Wavefront's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathMeister ➡️
The grace uses a monolithic opamp IC while the Millennia is fully discrete and maintains the balanced signal from input to output, a more sophisticated circuit. Millennia is much closer to a “wire with gain” using fewer transistors than the Grace IC design.
I respect both products and do not have some sort of hidden agenda or intend any kind of confrontational undertone -- but would you mind briefly expanding on your statement that the Millennia is "a more sophisticated circuit" and yet at the same time also "closer to a 'wire with gain'" ?

Sophisticated in the sense of design approach and not necessarily number/type of components? Or...?

Thanks! Just curious as someone with limited knowledge of the finer points of circuit topologies etc.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #30
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
i don't care about the innards of my gear (unless i have to fix it...) and did get to compare grace 801 (v1) with millenia hv3 (and aphex 1788, yamaha ad8hr, sony dmx-r100's built-in pres, focusrite isa828, stagetec truematch, studer d21m, amek/neve cib, tc gold channel, mci jh500 and a few more i don't recall...) and my experience has been much different from the previous poster's experience:

grace imo wasn't anywhere close to sounding intransparent, bright, edgy, forward or even harsh or brittle...

...but then, i find focus on spectral content alone to be insufficient to describe the 'sound' of a preamp anyway.

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 3 weeks ago at 08:45 PM..
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