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LDCs for Live Classical
Old 19th April 2021 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath ➡️
There is a great Harley Chop Shop that might do the work. But I always thought of the TLM-170 more like a Bultaco - would be a shame to mod such a fine flat tracker.


Easy rider,

Ray H.
Maybe the mod would also raise the 170's maximum input ceiling to Harley exhaust levels !
Old 19th April 2021 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Maybe the mod would also raise the 170's maximum input ceiling to Harley exhaust levels !

It can take 154dB w/10dB Pre-attenuation as is. No mod is needed.
Old 19th April 2021
  #33
Gear Maniac
Well, darn. I have four TLM170 and am simultaneously excited and terrified at the idea of tearing material out of the headbasket and probably losing all my resale value. Clarity versus the Almighty Dollar, which will prevail?

Someone bolster my courage!
Old 19th April 2021
  #34
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I modified all four of mine.


If someone were to buy them from me and wants to reverse them back to stock, he/she can order the top housings. But, I will not sell them anyways.
Old 19th April 2021 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
TLM-170 can pick up incredible amount of detail and has an equally amazing reach if you could simply get rid of two inner layers of the pop filter cage. The difference is huge. This thing was clearly designed for very close distance pop style vocal recording, for which one definitely needs heavy duty pop filtration.
Thanks for this tip DaHong. I seem to remember Klaus Heyne writing in a post that he removes the mesh too when dealing with the TLM170. I might try to do this on mine.
Old 21st April 2021
  #36
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
I started out using U47s in omni and... I didn't really like the sound and upgraded to PZMs. But try it, a lot of people go ga-go over them.

I had one customer who was obsessed with the sound of widely spaced U87s in the nineties. The orchestra sounded okay but the room around it never seemed realistic to me at all.
--scott
Old 21st April 2021 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Despite the TLM170 perhaps not having universal appeal, it turns up as the close mic in many recording sessions by major labels: here is a pair sharing the bird's eye view of Nicola Benedetti's fiddle with a Coles ribbon and another wider couple of Neumann (M49/M149 ?)

https://youtu.be/yfxDQf6G4x8
Old 21st April 2021 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
before ripping apart any of my mics, i would like to see a measurement comparison between a modded and a standard version - so far i did not feel the urge to modify my tlm170r's in any way:

in fact, i like them mostly due to the fact that they do not exhibit much of a hf boost which plagues most any modern condenser mic, (almost) regardless of manufacturer, capsule diameter and pattern?!

i do wish i would have had more mics with such a behaviour back in the analog days though...
Old 21st April 2021
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Screwing with microphones certainly is not for everybody.

However, if you want to learn something about microphone design and construction but inadvertently destroying a giving microphone in the process, just consider it as tuition. At the very least, you would learn what not to do. (You really should not have touched it to begin with, perhaps?) Frankly, it is not that expensive of a tuition to pay if you can truly learn something about it. After all, TLM170 is still under production and is readily serviceable if you did destroy it. Most things I learnt as a little child I let my curiosity get hold of me. I opened up just about everything and anything I could put my hands on. I did destroy some of them but I sure learnt a lot. Luckily, my parents never stopped me.
Old 21st April 2021
  #40
Lives for gear
 
fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
For me:
TLM67s on celli/bassi
M149s on trumpets
TLM127 (fig8) over french horns. Next time I'll try U47s fet on french horns.

Fred.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
At the very least, you would learn what not to do.
So ruining a fantastic microphone which is oh by the way at least three large, just to learn what not to do. Thanks, but no thanks.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
before ripping apart any of my mics, i would like to see a measurement comparison between a modded and a standard version - so far i did not feel the urge to modify my tlm170r's in any way:
You don't need to. Go get a piece of plastic window screen, cover the opening of a mic with it. Record something with and without the screen. If you can hear a difference, then you know what a layer of mess does to the sound. If you don't hear the difference, don't worry, be happy.

By the way, there are three layers of metal screens in front of the capsule on a TLM-170. So, try with three layers of window screens. You get the idea.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfghdhr ➡️
So ruining a fantastic microphone which is oh by the way at least three large, just to learn what not to do. Thanks, but no thanks.

Opening up a microphone does not mean to destroy it.

But, how do you learn anything without experimenting?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #44
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
You don't need to. Go get a piece of plastic window screen, cover the opening of a mic with it. Record something with and without the screen. If you can hear a difference, then you know what a layer of mess does to the sound. If you don't hear the difference, don't worry, be happy.

By the way, there are three layers of metal screens in front of the capsule on a TLM-170. So, try with three layers of window screens. You get the idea.
I have no doubt that the result would sound different (or that my hearing isn't still good enough to notice) - it's just that i don't buy into the notion that more hf per se is better or would be to my liking...

besides, i regularly get to rent a trio of tlm170r's from a friend and there is absolutely no question that he would ever have his mics modified, so for the sake of uniformity among mics, i prefer to stick with the old, oh so dull, bad and boring sounding standard versions! ;-)
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
I have no doubt that the result would sound different (or that my hearing isn't still good enough to notice) - it's just that i don't buy into the notion that more hf per se is better or would be to my liking...

besides, i regularly get to rent a trio of tlm170r's from a friend and there is absolutely no question that he would ever have his mics modified, so for the sake of uniformity among mics, i prefer to stick with the old, oh so dull, bad and boring sounding standard versions! ;-)

It is not the high frequency extension I am after. That can be easily compensated.

The real big issue with multi-layer mesh is that it traps the sound within the head basket and the energy can't dissipate quickly. Instead, it bunces around in the basket, dirtying up the sound. A quick way to see that is to sweep the mic with or without additional mesh layer and look at the graph without using any smoothing. Again, you can hear this using a couple of layers of window screen to cover your ear. You will hear this ringing going on. That ringing is what I am talking about.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #46
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
It is not the high frequency extension I am after. That can be easily compensated.

The real big issue with multi-layer mesh is that it traps the sound within the head basket and the energy can't dissipate quickly. Instead, it bunces around in the basket, dirtying up the sound. A quick way to see that is to sweep the mic with or without additional mesh layer and look at the graph without using any smoothing. Again, you can hear this using a couple of layers of window screen to cover your ear. You will hear this ringing going on. That ringing is what I am talking about.
...maybe re-read the second part of my post again.

(btw you're contradicting yourself to some degree or then you would need to be much more specific/explain in detail how this alleged 'ringing' is 'dirtying up the sound', how it manifests itself in a measurement and in what kind of measurement - from your comments and vague analogies alone, i can only guess that the effect shows in the hf range and therefore could be seen on an analyser...)
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
The real big issue with multi-layer mesh is that it traps the sound within the head basket and the energy can't dissipate quickly. Instead, it bunces around in the basket, dirtying up the sound. A quick way to see that is to sweep the mic with or without additional mesh layer and look at the graph without using any smoothing. Again, you can hear this using a couple of layers of window screen to cover your ear. You will hear this ringing going on. That ringing is what I am talking about.
Changing the shape of the grille can help. You'll notice the way the RCA 44 is designed, it has no parallel surfaces in the grille in an attempt to minimize reflections. On the other hand, the 77 is designed so everything is reflected down into a single line that is in the middle of the ribbon and expected to be harmless. The U87 grille assembly is also worth studying and has considerable effect on the sound.

Olson talks about this with reference to the RCA designs, but nobody is willing to discuss the U87 in public.
--scott
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
...maybe re-read the second part of my post again.

(btw you're contradicting yourself to some degree or then you would need to be much more specific/explain in detail how this alleged 'ringing' is 'dirtying up the sound', how it manifests itself in a measurement and in what kind of measurement - from your comments and vague analogies alone, i can only guess that the effect shows in the hf range and therefore could be seen on an analyser...)

cover your ears with a couple of layers of mesh and tell me what you hear. Anything you hear with the mesh by definition is not good.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #49
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dseetoo ➡️
cover your ears with a couple of layers of mesh and tell me what you hear. Anything you hear with the mesh by definition is not good.
no one disputes that a few layers of mesh act as some kind of filter (most easily measurable and audible in the high frequency range btw) or that any device could be modified...

...but the price for this can only be judged by each person alone, also in ignorance of potential benefits or what could be expect after a modification but in knowledge of what remains for sure (uniformity between my personal and rented microphones in my case).

to try to derive a rule or even a generally valid 'definition' from personal experience however at least to me seems presumptuous if not arrogant - anyway, i have read (and probably understood) your suggestion and recommendation: thx (but no thx, even at the risk of being labelled ignorant)!
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
no one disputes that a few layers of mesh act as some kind of filter (most easily measurable and audible in the high frequency range btw)........
It also filters out saliva, hum and radio transmitter waves. All very important to keep out from your capsule.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
thx (but no thx, even at the risk of being labelled ignorant)!
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
It also filters out saliva, hum and radio transmitter waves. All very important to keep out from your capsule.
This.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Microphone manufacture tried very hard to please every user under every conceivable conditions. They have to make their mics almost bullet proof while still able to pick up the faintest soft whisper. That is why they built the capsule cage with three layers of metal mesh. I understand that.

However, as the saying goes; if you try to please everyone you end up please no one.

Personally, I don't record music outdoor, under the rain, with 90 mile per hour wind gust, in 40 degree C heat and 105% humidity, under a radio tower. Nor do I ever stick a microphone two inches away from the someone's mouth. So, I don't need three layers of mesh. If I need three layers of mesh in order to record something, I will simply not record it.
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