The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4
Old 16th March 2021
  #1
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4

Here are some pictures of my socially distant recording from last weekend of the Brahm's Symphony No. 4 with the Tulsa Symphony Orchestra.

Also on this program were Wagner's Overture to the Flying Dutchman and Max Bruch's Scottish Fantasy featuring TSO's Concertmaster Rossitza Goza. Conducted by Gerard Schwarz.

This was the same stage set up we used last month for the Dvorak 9th Symphony. 6 feet of space around every string player, and 9 feet of separation between all of the wind players. The orchestra shell had to be spread out (hence the gaps in the back wall) to accommodate the about 50% more space required for the physical distancing protocols. And plexiglass shields between each of the wind players.

There were about 60 donors and board members present in the house for this recording.

I'm working on editing and mixing this performance this week for delivery on Friday. This will be broadcast on the Public Radio station in Tulsa, KWTU and through their online broadcast on March 27 and 28.

Main mics were: Neumann TLM170s in NOS pattern with Earthworks M23Rs in a A-B set up on the main mic array.
Audio-Technica AT3031s for the left and right flank mics.
Neumann KM184s for the high strings including the solo violin, sort of close miced for the first chairs of each section. Audio-Technica AT4050 for the cello, and Neumann TLM170 for the bass.
AKG C451Bs hanging overhead for the woodwinds, Sennheiser MD421s for the Horns, Heil PR30s for the Trombones and Tuba
Line Audio CM3s for the contra bassoon and trumpet
AKG C414-XLS for the tympani
Room mics were a pair of Neumann KM184s hanging in ORTF from the lighting cove in the house, and a pair of Line Audio OM1s hanging straight down 15 feet off center also from the lighting cove in the house

28 inputs total including the line level feed from the console for the curtain speech mic.

Recorded to dual Protools systems with my MacBook Pro with my Focusrite Red 8Pre/HD Native and Dante Virtual Soundcard to my Lenovo P50 as a backup. Other mic preamps include: two Focusrite OctoPres and a True Systems Precision 8 mic preamp.

I also recorded a third back up to the house Mac Pro/HDX system using the analog direct outputs from my interfaces input into the house Yamaha CL5 from which I also mixed live direct to CD archival recording.
Attached Thumbnails
Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4-img_2416-2.jpg   Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4-img_2420-2.jpg   Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4-img_2446-2.jpg   Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4-img_2466-2.jpg   Pics from last weekend's recording of the Brahm's 4-img_2413-2.jpg  

Old 16th March 2021
  #2
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
What a joy it must be to record the Brahms 4th!

How do you like the tlm170s as main pair? Just bought a u89 (same capsule) and can borrow another one from the conservatory to try out as main pair.

Can you post a sample?

All the best,

Knut
Old 16th March 2021
  #3
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I absolutely love the TLM170s as a main pair. I know a lot of people don't like LDCs as their mains but I'm one of the guys who does. And they sound fantastic in wide cardioid in an NOS set up. I'm somewhat spoiled because the house that I record the Tulsa Symphony in owns 4 of them and I have access to their very nice microphone cabinet when recording there. (For the record, I used to be the house audio tech at this venue for almost 10 years, so I bought a lot of the mics, and the CL5, and their Protools HDX system, lol. )

I wish I could post a sample. But this is a union orchestra and my agreement with them doesn't allow me to post samples. If I can find out the exact times, I will post a link to the website where you can listen to the online stream of the broadcast. from the few times I've been able to catch it, it sounds pretty good as long as you have a fast internet connection.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➑️
I absolutely love the TLM170s as a main pair. I know a lot of people don't like LDCs as their mains but I'm one of the guys who does. And they sound fantastic in wide cardioid in an NOS set up.
I can't see your AT3031 flankers in the photo, but I'm interested that you chose cardioid for them, rather than omni ?

Unless you meant the 3032...which is an omni ?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-at3031-at3032

I wonder if LDC for the flankers would work just as well as it does for you as main pair, since the 3031 is SDC ?
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
I can't see your AT3031 flankers in the photo, but I'm interested that you chose cardioid for them, rather than omni ?

Unless you meant the 3032...which is an omni ?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...-at3031-at3032

I wonder if LDC for the flankers would work just as well as it does for you as main pair, since the 3031 is SDC ?
Yes, they are 3031s, the cardioid versions. If you look at the second photo with the full stage shot, you can see the flankers about 3/4 of the way out from the center on each side, on tall stands.

I've always used cardioids for my flanks usually the KM184s which would hang straight down over the violins and cellos from the lighting bridge (the lighting bridge is right over the front of the stage, above the pit and the lighting cove is about half way into the house) which I would normally also hang my mains from. But the orchestra is pushed so far downstage because of their distancing requirements I put everything on stands. I also couldn't get them up as high as I wanted, because I had to set them on the house floor in front of the stage, instead of on the stage in order to leave enough room for a walk way at the front of the stage.

I use OMNIS for the outer mains and the room mics. I guess I could try the other pair of TLM170s as OMNI flanks next time. It's just something I've never done before.

Also, this isn't the best sounding house. It's got some weird issues that just make it sound dull, and a very loud HVAC system. So I usually shy away from trying to capture too much of the room.
Old 16th March 2021
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I can see them now, on the auditorium floor leaning in....they're so low i missed them !
Sadly both the 3031 and 3032 are now discontinued...

To achieve a similar flank location, with more elevation, I use round base K+M stands on the front edge of the stage...and then get the necessary height by adding 2 or 3 carbon fibre Rode Micro BoomPole Pro sections.

They're quite happy with lightweight SDC's, and the footprint is sufficiently small and low profile to be effectively invisible (to an audience...maybe not elevated video cameras !)

yes, omni flankers are something of an open window for traffic rumble, HVAC etc...and can be too much of a good thing if your main pair has omnis already. In the right space they give a great sense of width, whereas I'd imagine cardioid flanks give a more contained, precise sound to the outer strings ?

Last edited by studer58; 16th March 2021 at 11:26 AM..
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Interesting to hear. Yes, different opinions about using ldcs as mains, although these are more mdc. ThatΒ΄s why I thought about trying them out as mains.

Would be nice to hear the result!

Best wishes,

Knut
Old 16th March 2021
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Yes, TLM170s are really not LDCs. Nice mics but I just never grabbed them on the way out the door. I used them as orchestral spots once on 1st vln and once on solo cello. Didn't really ring my bell.

D.
Old 16th March 2021
  #9
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
JCB - glad to see some orchestras coming back! Nice photos.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
I can see them now, on the auditorium floor leaning in....they're so low i missed them !
Sadly both the 3031 and 3032 are now discontinued...
Slightly OT... but... I've had a pair of AT 4041 for about 10 years, and was wondering the difference between them and 3031 and 4051. Is it just a matter of refinement, or is it an ongoing "refreshing" of the line?

FWIW, my other cardioid pairs are MKH8040 and Sony C55FET (which have gone "noisy"... I picked them up, used, in 1979 or so...) and Shure BG81s (specifically for hanging over drums in "less-than-friendly" environments). The 4041pair have always been decent performers... but they have never "beaten out" the 8040s (nor would I expect them to).

Just curious... any experiences to share?

Thanks. Cheers...

HB

Last edited by hbphotoav; 16th March 2021 at 06:07 PM..
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman ➑️
JCB - glad to see some orchestras coming back! Nice photos.
Supposedly The Tulsa Symphony was the first orchestra to hold a concert for more than 1,000 people in the entire country since the start of the pandemic; which they did at the baseball field here back in September. They also held a TV broadcast of their holiday show in December. I wasn't a part of those productions however.

This was the third recording session they've done so far this season, one in November, one in February, and they will have another in April. In May they will do a live concert at the ballpark again with the Beethoven 9.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav ➑️
Slightly OT... but... I've had a pair of AT 4041 for about 10 years, and was wondering the difference between them and 3031 and 4051. Is it just a matter of refinement, or is it an ongoing "refreshing" of the line?
The 3000 line, which included the 3031, 3032, and 3035 LDC were a more budget priced line, below the 4000 line. But were originally produced in Japan until the line was discontinued about 10 or 12 years ago. Production of those designs were then sent to China and became the 2000 line and produced in black. I think they are a great value for the money and sound better than their original budget indicated that they might.

I've got a pair of the 3035s also which I find to be fantastic at a variety of uses including drum overheads.
Old 16th March 2021
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
How do you like those Heils on the t-bones? How close in did you play them? Congrats on being "back"!
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
wildplum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
quick question about the Rode Micro Boompole: how do you attach it to the K+M stand (can the hand grip be removed)?
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper ➑️
How do you like those Heils on the t-bones? How close in did you play them? Congrats on being "back"!
I love the Heils on low brass especially. If I had access to four of them I would have used them on the horns also. They were placed at the front of the riser, half way between the players. There's more distance between them than I would like, but it is what it is given the physical distancing requirements.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildplum ➑️
quick question about the Rode Micro Boompole: how do you attach it to the K+M stand (can the hand grip be removed)?
It's not a Rode boom pole.

The stand is a Manfrotto 1004BAC with a 099B extension. I use Sobra Som mic mounts on a 24" wide 3/8" aluminum hexrod as the T-bar. It's a little wonky with that much weight on top, but I put 20lbs of sand bags on the base of the stand.

Even setting on the house floor in front of the stage, I can get that set up about 11 or 12 feet above the stage deck.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper ➑️
Congrats on being "back"!
Keeping my fingers crossed...I JUST got a call to possibly work on an opera recording for a national broadcast later this spring.

Hopefully this is the beginning of the thaw...
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by knuttta ➑️
Interesting to hear. Yes, different opinions about using ldcs as mains, although these are more mdc. ThatΒ΄s why I thought about trying them out as mains.

Would be nice to hear the result!

Best wishes,

Knut
worth noting that in quite a few places in the old world, up until ca. the late 80's/early 90's using various tube ldc's for mains (and i'm not talking m50's) was quite common and they only slowly got replaced by modern sdc's - not necessarily for sound reasons though...
Old 16th March 2021
  #19
Lives for gear
 
jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Harry - I had pairs of at4041s and at4051s. IMHO, the 4051s were in another league - very smooth and full sounding - very underrated mics which hold their own with anything. I could easily use nothing but 4051s for almost anything.
Old 16th March 2021
  #20
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I like the 4051s a lot. Haven't had access to any in a number of years though. But they did sound great. I'd out them up against any other SDC in their same price range. They are on my short list of mics to buy, right after I get some KM184s.
Old 16th March 2021
  #21
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➑️
Main mics were: Neumann TLM170s in NOS pattern with Earthworks M23Rs in a A-B set up on the main mic array.
.
a "faulkner" type array" ??

Ray
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildplum ➑️
quick question about the Rode Micro Boompole: how do you attach it to the K+M stand (can the hand grip be removed)?
5/8" to 3/8" thread adapter. Hand grip adjuster remains, to allow height control, on K+M stand...handgrips removed on boompoles.

Last edited by studer58; 16th March 2021 at 11:31 PM..
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➑️
a "faulkner" type array" ??

Ray
Ehh...not really because it doesn't use figure-8 mics. It's technically NOS with a spaced pair of OMNIs for the outer mics. It's a technique that I stole from Christian after working for him a couple times.
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
5/8" to 3/8" thread adapter. Hand grip adjuster remains, to allow height control, on K+M stand, handgrips on boompoles removed.
https://www.swamp.net.au/microphone-...kaAmxCEALw_wcB
https://www.mannys.com.au/konig-meye...0aAk2kEALw_wcB
https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...AaAmEtEALw_wcB
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➑️
Ehh...not really because it doesn't use figure-8 mics. It's technically NOS with a spaced pair of OMNIs for the outer mics. It's a technique that I stole from Christian after working for him a couple times.
It's the (takes deep breath) "other" Faulkner phased array, or Boojum/Norman 4 mic array
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
That is also a "faulkner array" or phased array

look here :


Ray
Old 16th March 2021
  #27
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Ok. It's close to the Faulkner 4 mic array. Except that the center mics are closer to 12" apart, not 16", and they are in wide-cardioid not just regular cardioid. Maybe that's not that big a difference though.

ETA: and also I use LDC as the center mics instead of SDC. (Or Medium Diaphragm condenser, or whatever the 170s are considered to be).

Last edited by JCBigler; 16th March 2021 at 11:53 PM..
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➑️
Ok. It's close to the Faulkner 4 mic array. Except that the center mics are closer to 12" apart, not 16", and they are in wide-cardioid not just regular cardioid. Maybe that's not that big a difference though.
It was just a question.....on the pic without other info ..or as studer58 said then a boojum/norman or a variation of these...what % of cards vs omni did you end up using for the recording?

Ray
Old 16th March 2021 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
JCBigler's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayS ➑️
It was just a question.....on the pic without other info ..or as studer58 said then a boojum/norman or a variation of these...what % of cards vs omni did you end up using for the recording?

Ray
The Center cardioids are about +1.1db above 0 and the omnis are about -1db. I also had less gain on the preamps for the M23R omnis since they have a hotter output than the TLM170s. But I also have 26 mics during this recording, including the close mics on the string sections. So the final mix is a blend of a lot of other sources as well.
Old 17th March 2021 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➑️
So the final mix is a blend of a lot of other sources as well.
of course,

Thx for the info...hope we'll hear the results...

Ray
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 111 views: 24179
Avatar for dublave
dublave 2 weeks ago
replies: 99 views: 8074
Avatar for studer58
studer58 1 week ago
replies: 3337 views: 195478
Avatar for chrisj
chrisj 6th March 2021
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump