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Headphones for classical editing/location recording
Old 6th December 2020 | Show parent
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
In general, I think you should budget about half of your total budget for monitoring. But... if you have only a pair of cheap speakers attached to a laptop and a pair of headphones, then that's what you have and that's what you'll have to learn to work with. But I'd rather have a pair of cheap speakers attached to a laptop and a pair of headphones than just a pair of headphones, by a long shot.
--scott
Point taken. (Although when I am travelling I will have to get by with just headphones.)

So if my max. budget was, say £300-350... What would you recommend for me as your suggested headphones + speakers? (When I refer to my current cheap speakers, I am talking £20 cheap and I wouldn't trust any decisions on them...)
Old 6th December 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by elpillo ➡️
I've been using Grado 325's for a few years now. I bought a second pair a couple of years ago as a back up but they sounded different than my first pair. I like the first pair better. The newer ones sound very good but have the low-mids a tiny bit more pronounced. To me they are great headphones. I recommend the OP to check them out. They're open headphones, though.
Thanks for the rec. Looks like my current revised list of Gearslutz recommendations is (cheaper options):

AKG K371
Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80 ohm or 250 ohm..)

And if I invest my whole budget in headphones I still have the options of Senn 600/650 and Beyer DT 1770, which I'm trying tomorrow, and Shure SRH 1840 and Grado 325, which I can't try... Not sure how much all of these were recommended as a multi-tasking headphone. I suppose except for the 1770 they won't help for tracking... Seems to be the consensus that closed back is my first port of call.

It looks like (unless I buy one of the above Senn/DT1770 instore, in which case I won't be getting speakers too!) I'm again going to be taking a chance on ordering something I haven't heard. In case anyone would like to tell me before I make a call if any of the above (in particular the first two) is NOT a good option for my position.. I would be very happy to hear!
Old 6th December 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I bought the DT770 M 80 ohms. (I believe the "M" have more isolation than than the DT770 80 ohms. So if you are using them next to people playing instruments, I'd recommend the "M" version. I'm sure the audio is affected by the extra isolation, but they should be very very similar to the DT770 non M version. These should be about $159 (in the USA)
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tor-headphones

and for monitors, I'd either get the JBL 305 mkii which have a great sound for the price. (on sale now at $99 each)
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...studio-monitor

or I'd get the Eris 5 or Khali Audio LP-6
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...studio-monitor

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...studio-monitor

(if you can stretch the budget, I'd get either the JBL 306mkii or the Kali Audio LP6 which I think both are $150 per speaker)

Not sure what the price of these are where you are. Hope that helps.
Old 6th December 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
The MixPre 6, which is what you have, has a 3.5mm stereo out, which means you could use a 3.5mm to dual mono XLR or dual mono TRS cable to go out to monitors. But it's not an ideal solution because there's no quick way to control the level going out to the monitors; you have to set that in a menu on the MixPre.

^^ Actually, I use the headphone out on my MixPre 6 to feed sound to my monitors all the time so that I can control monitor volume with the mixpre's volume knob for this exact reason. Here's the cable you need (3.5mm male to left & right split RCA male):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UTF8&fpl=fresh

My monitors have both RCA inputs and XLR inputs (a few monitors don't have RCA, so you'll have to check).

This is *Not* a totally perfect setup technically speaking -- ideally you would want a balanced XLR out from an interface that has this (MixPre doesn't) to XLR cables to your monitors, which would give you more resistance to cable interference and such. But, it's super convenient, and realistically there is not likely to be a perceptible difference.

Using this setup, you can use your MixPre to get sound from your computer or from recordings on the mixpre itself to your monitors, while skipping your computer's (bad) sound card and letting the MixPre do the D/A conversion.

Obviously, the same cable I linked also works to connect the MixPre's stereo out jack to your monitors if you prefer.

The advantage of using the headphone output instead is that you get to use the volume knob and also setting up the headphone jack on the MixPre to do 'special' things is super easy. For example, I often 'headphone solo' the USB input channel on my MixPre, which means that the (USB-connected) computer can play a backing track to the MixPre -> headphone jack -> my monitors, and a vocalist can sing along and record to the mixpre, without her voice going back through the monitors too.
Old 6th December 2020 | Show parent
  #95
Lives for gear
 
king2070lplaya's Avatar
On a limited budget, I wouldn't compromise my purchase by trying to add cheap speakers. FWIW.

Spend the money on a good pair of headphones, use them with the HP amp on the Mixpre, and you'll be well on your way to making good recordings.

The people here who are talking about NEEDING speakers are IMO not doing a good job of thinking through what your usecase is and what will be most cost-efficient and practical for you as a self-recording musician. They are engineers who are used to working a specific way that isn't really practical for someone who's trying to do what you're doing. For monitors to sound good and be critically useful, you not only need an accurate pair of speakers in optimal placement, but also a treated room for both tracking and editing. This isn't often practical unless you have a lot of lead time in the venue to prepare such a situation, and a budget for the necessary acoustic treatments.

Personally, when I'm trying to self-record, I want to minimize the tech as much as possible and focus on the music, as if i'm unable to make my best performance because the tech is distracting me, there's not much point to making the recording in the first place.

If you listen to a lot of professional recordings that you like on your new headphones, you will become familiar over time with their characteristics, and the characteristics of the recordings that you most enjoy, which will aid you in making placement decisions when recording (this same process of familiarization would also be necessary if trying to make balance and placement decisions on speakers, as they are not magical, they are just another tool one has to learn to use).

If you already have a good set of speakers that you like listening to at home, these can also be used as a useful reference to check the recordings that you work on.

In our modern world, most people listen to music on substandard speakers or headphones. And since good headphones are cheaper than good speakers, they are what most people looking to achieve a better quality of music reproduction are going to buy. I see many students and professionals that I work with walking around wearing AT M50's, Sony wireless cans, Shure In-Ears, etc, but most that I ask don't own speakers beyond maybe an Amazon Echo or their laptop speakers. I think anecdotally that this makes for a very good argument that making recordings on headphones that sound good on headphones is not a bad way to start to approach making recordings. The odds that you'd make a recording that sounds great on headphones yet totally falls apart on speakers are not high.

And no, you don't need a binaural head to make recordings that sound good on headphones.

But i'm no pedant, other than in my pedantic distaste for pedants. So make of that what you will.
Old 7th December 2020 | Show parent
  #96
Gear Maniac
 
THIS!
Old 8th December 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse ➡️
Consider the Beyerdynamic DT770 80-ohm version. Sounds great on every amp and translates in a great room with great speakers with zero shock. https://amzn.to/3n3VG1J

I've mixed on HD600s and HD650s and they are both dark with lumpy low mids. I owned HD600s personally, used many pairs at sessions belonging to others, and they never sound right. Several were even broken, and they don't seem to hold up under regular use or travel.

DT1770s are nearly identical to 770s, so I'd rather just buy three or four 770s.
How comfortable are the 770s to wear for an extended period of time?
Old 9th December 2020 | Show parent
  #98
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uOpt's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy ➡️
How comfortable are the 770s to wear for an extended period of time?
They have soft pads with a large contact area around the ear, on the other hand clamping force is quite a bit (as is required for good fit under combat conditions when recording).

I'd say they are the most comfortable high-force clamp headphones, but depending on the individual they can get claustrophobic, stuffy or something along those lines.
Old 11th December 2020 | Show parent
  #99
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NorseHorse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy ➡️
How comfortable are the 770s to wear for an extended period of time?
I often wear them all day. No pressure on the ears.
Old 11th December 2020 | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
mpdonahue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy ➡️
How comfortable are the 770s to wear for an extended period of time?
As others have said, the DT770 is comfortable to wear. For me, the things that make phones good for long use are how the cups are designed. On a lot of phones, the cups press down on the pinna and lobe, others (Typically larger cups) go around the ear and seal on the side of the head. The ones that press down (Sony 7506, AT M50x, Sennheiser 280, etc...)typically cause my ears to sweat more and therefore become uncomfortable quicker. The Beyer 770/880/990, Sennheiser HD580/600/650 and many others are much more comfortable in my book, but are typically much larger to carry around.

To the original poster, there are lots of practical considerations WRT phones. For me, the convenience and reliability of the good old Sony V6/7506 make them my choice for phones to work in. Are there others that are more comfortable? Sound better? Yes, but i know I can reach into my backpack or briefcase and grab my phones and they will sound the same no matter what I plug them into.
Looking behind me in the headphone locker I have about 20 different pairs of phones including Stax Lambda Pro and Omega, Sennheiser 580, 600, 650, 800. Beyer 770, 990 and inears from Etymotic, Shure and Westone. I still use the 7506 everyday for work when I travel. We have about 15 pairs of these kicking around and they all have aftermarket leather ear pads.
As always, YMMV.
ATB, Mark
Old 11th December 2020 | Show parent
  #101
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wildplum's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The subject of mixing on headphones for people who will listen on headphones has been raised and it struck a chord with me, as lately I've been mixing some live performances for just that audience.

And this raised a question that I have no answer for: Which headphones translate best when making recordings that will be listened to on headphones?

Not wanting to hijack this thread, I started a new one: Which headphones translate best when making recordings that will be listened to on headphones?
Old 20th December 2020 | Show parent
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️
As others have said, the DT770 is comfortable to wear. For me, the things that make phones good for long use are how the cups are designed. On a lot of phones, the cups press down on the pinna and lobe, others (Typically larger cups) go around the ear and seal on the side of the head. The ones that press down (Sony 7506, AT M50x, Sennheiser 280, etc...)typically cause my ears to sweat more and therefore become uncomfortable quicker. The Beyer 770/880/990, Sennheiser HD580/600/650 and many others are much more comfortable in my book, but are typically much larger to carry around.

To the original poster, there are lots of practical considerations WRT phones. For me, the convenience and reliability of the good old Sony V6/7506 make them my choice for phones to work in. Are there others that are more comfortable? Sound better? Yes, but i know I can reach into my backpack or briefcase and grab my phones and they will sound the same no matter what I plug them into.
Looking behind me in the headphone locker I have about 20 different pairs of phones including Stax Lambda Pro and Omega, Sennheiser 580, 600, 650, 800. Beyer 770, 990 and inears from Etymotic, Shure and Westone. I still use the 7506 everyday for work when I travel. We have about 15 pairs of these kicking around and they all have aftermarket leather ear pads.
As always, YMMV.
ATB, Mark
Thanks for the detailed repsonse. I have about four 7506s. What aftermarket leather ear pads do you use? Prevents the shedding problem with regular 7506 pads?

-Tom
Old 20th December 2020 | Show parent
  #103
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Tommy-boy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorseHorse ➡️
I often wear them all day. No pressure on the ears.
Thanks! Looks like I will be buying a pair in the near future.
Old 22nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #104
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy ➡️
Thanks! Looks like I will be buying a pair in the near future.
Yes the 770’s are comfortable and sound good but I no longer use them.
I have found the David Clark 10S/DC headphones to be better in every way:
at least as comfortable if not more so, much better sound isolation and they translate better to what’s heard on monitors. With the 770’s I too often ended up with iso tracks/mixes that were too “wet” when heard on monitors.
Old 22nd December 2020 | Show parent
  #105
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hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy ➡️
Thanks for the detailed repsonse. I have about four 7506s. What aftermarket leather ear pads do you use? Prevents the shedding problem with regular 7506 pads?

-Tom
I, too would like to know where to find the leather V6/7506 replacement covers Mark referenced. The 4th or 5th (lost track) set on my "old faithful" V6 set are shot... again...

Thanks!

HB
Old 26th December 2020 | Show parent
  #106
Lives for gear
 
mpdonahue's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav ➡️
I, too would like to know where to find the leather V6/7506 replacement covers Mark referenced. The 4th or 5th (lost track) set on my "old faithful" V6 set are shot... again...

Thanks!

HB
I get mine off Amazon, you need to try a couple of sets to find what you like. I have both the velour and calf skin ones...the velour ones are a little firmer and the calf skin ones are softer. I do re-use the driver cover from the original pads on the velour ones.
All the best
Mark
Old 26th December 2020 | Show parent
  #107
A few weeks late to the party on this one, but just to say that this is very helpful - I have the 80Ω and use them on a regular basis, and that includes straight out of my MacBook Pro 16". I'd love to be able to get a bit more level out of them for my purposes, but I do find them a little boomy sometimes, so I'll very happily endorse that comment. Perhaps it's time for me to get the 250Ω for studio use...
Old 27th December 2020 | Show parent
  #108
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've missed the boat thus far when it comes to planar magnetic headphones, but these (relatively new to market) Avantones and HEDDphones suggest that the planar genre might well be worthy of further investigation...in terms of giving a more 'speaker-like' presentation ?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/avantone-planar

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...udio-heddphone

Last edited by studer58; 27th December 2020 at 07:54 AM..
Old 27th December 2020 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpdonahue ➡️
I get mine off Amazon, you need to try a couple of sets to find what you like. I have both the velour and calf skin ones...the velour ones are a little firmer and the calf skin ones are softer. I do re-use the driver cover from the original pads on the velour ones.
All the best
Mark
Thanks, Mark.

I ordered a set of "Sheepskin" pads from BrainWavz off Amazon. $20 and change... they fit well, and feel better than the 6yo set of worn-out "pleather" pads they replaced. I guess I'll have to report back in 5 years or so about if they were worth the $10 premium. I do know they more effectively seal than the old ones, no question.

Cheers, all. I'll post in a few weeks/months (chances for "onsite" listening for which they're destined are still... limited...) as warranted.

Happy New Year, All! Here's to better times!

HB
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #110
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
It will be a sad day when all we record for are headhones and cheap multiple mono speakers. Get in front of some constant directivity dipoles and enjoy a real stereo image.
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #111
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
It will be a sad day when all we record for are headhones and cheap multiple mono speakers. Get in front of some constant directivity dipoles and enjoy a real stereo image.
I'll see your CD dipoles, and raise you a pair of (mint) AR9 towers. Different, yes. But still satisfying after 40 (!) years (acquired in late 1979)... and are the last "test" my projects must pass.

Here's to precisely moving large quantities of air in a decent space!

HB
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #112
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav ➡️
I'll see your CD dipoles, and raise you a pair of (mint) AR9 towers. Different, yes. But still satisfying after 40 (!) years (acquired in late 1979)... and are the last "test" my projects must pass.

Here's to precisely moving large quantities of air in a decent space!

HB
However, if the original poster is looking for a pair of small speakers to take into the field to set up a makeshift control room, the powered Tannoy Reveals are workable if severely bass-restricted. You can't tell what is going on with the bass/violin balances but you can work out the brass/woodwind/string balances effectively, tell how big the room sounds, and hear echo problems.

For years I used a pair of AR-4Xes in the field which were if anything inferior in imaging to the Reveals and didn't have much more bass extension and I survived.

NHT Super Ones have more extension and are hardly any heavier but they will require an external amp and that is one more thing to lug around. But they can be had for next to nothing and really are not bad at all.

There are far, far better monitors around, but not for under $100 on ebay.
--scott
Old 28th December 2020 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Agreed. My location solution are the surprisingly good (for $300) Equator D5 coax. They don't have the full-range response my Tannoys/sub have... but they get close enough to make mics positions calls... and they fit into an old padded camera bag like they were made for it.

Cheers.

HB
Old 5th January 2021
  #114
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
An empirical review of the Sony 7506:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...adphone.19099/

I have no comment on them, as I’ve not listened to them in years. I use Audeze and JH Audio in-ears on location. Stax at home for fun.
Old 5th January 2021 | Show parent
  #115
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avillalta ➡️
An empirical review of the Sony 7506:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...adphone.19099/
Yes, this is exactly what to expect, except possibly in the lower octave. I don't know how they made these measurements but I'd expect to see a little more low end from a Zwislocki coupler measurement. But the top end and the midrange distortion measurements are right on the ball. I suspect the high midrange distortion is related to the focus on clicks and squeaks.
--scott
Old 13th January 2021 | Show parent
  #116
Gear Head
 
In this context, has anyone used the dSoniq Reaphones plugin, and would like to comment on whether it is useful for headphone monitoring?
Old 22nd January 2021 | Show parent
  #117
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Since its emergence in the New Products forum last November, this Steven Slate headphone has generated 153 pages of discussion there (and it's not even a Merging product )...suggesting that perhaps it might have 'broadband applicability' across location recording, studio recording, mixing/mastering tasks ?

Or not...

Steven Slate VSX Headphone: Mix in Pro Studios, Mastering Rooms, Cars, Clubs, Boomboxes, & More

https://stevenslateaudio.com/vsx
Old 25th January 2021 | Show parent
  #118
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have a bunch of headphones like Denon 7000, Sennheiser, Sony's etc.

There is one ""Geheimtipp" for classical/acoustic music:

The Philips Fidelio X2HR...

Is is a heck of a product with first class built and top drivers. It has a very accurate and natural sound that can easily be tweaked to more neutrality.

Here's a frequency response. Without correction it sounds already quite open and natural compared to a lot of 1000 Euro headphones. With a 50% correction in a program like Soundworks it becomes a dream to master on.

When it was introduced it costed about 400 Euro which was a steal compared to alle the overpriced competitors. Now, it is about to be discontinued, and here in the Netherlands it is sold out for about 150 Euro. A crazy low price!
Attached Thumbnails
Headphones for classical editing/location recording-philipsfidelio.jpg  
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #119
Gear Head
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uOpt ➡️
I have the 80 and 250 ohm versions. Mine are noticeably different. The 80 is more boomy and full and the 250 more flat and neutral sounding.

As far as amps go, a Macbook's headphone output can drive the 250 version just fine up to a certain volume level that I find sufficient. I didn't try that in battle yet, though.
I have the '80s, and use them purely for technical purposes. The big problem that I have about the bass isn't 'boom', but the bass response is REALLY extended to well below 5Hz. Where some headphones might be multiple dB down at 50Hz (some of the better Sennheisers), the DT770/Pro80 doesn't really start its way down until below 20Hz. This can have a profoundly irritating effect when working on software that might extend response to below 20Hz.
I am not claiming that the DT770/80 are bad in any way, just as a caveat about their use.
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