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New Book Coming on Decca Recording Technique
Old 14th May 2021
  #271
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🎧 10 years
I like 'Gordon Parry and the Italian Tea Boy' line in Humphreys commentary....
Old 25th May 2021 | Show parent
  #272
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
I got a chance to try out the Decca 2 x 2 Tree tonight...AB 50cm omni main pair KM183... with MKH 8020 flankers.

You should be able to see them all in the front camera shot from the streamcast...no spot mics used.

Main pair were pannned 75% left and right, flankers/outriggers hard left/right

My thought was that additional spots might conspire to collapse the front to back depth... your thoughts and reflections on this 'spotless frontal quartet' welcomed !

https://vimeo.com/546802195
Could it be that the out-riggers are reversed panned? The stereo image is very confusing.
Old 31st May 2021 | Show parent
  #273
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
Could it be that the out-riggers are reversed panned? The stereo image is very confusing.
It's quite possible....remedied in this return to same venue and setup (May 29th Vimeo) ....with addition of ORTF 'orchestral stereo spot' at the right of conductor's RH shoulder (for piano concerto only):

https://arts.adelaide.edu.au/music/e...concert-series

Concert commences at approx. 15:50.

Main AB pair panned out 90%, omni flankers 100% left/right
Old 31st May 2021 | Show parent
  #274
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
It's quite possible....remedied in this return to same venue and setup (May 29th Vimeo) ....with addition of ORTF 'orchestral stereo spot' at the right of conductor's RH shoulder (for piano concerto only):

https://arts.adelaide.edu.au/music/e...concert-series

Concert commences at approx. 15:50.

Main AB pair panned out 90%, omni flankers 100% left/right
Stereo image is fine, nice recording and well played.
Old 4th June 2021 | Show parent
  #275
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The book has some good tips on spot miking for double bass (in both section and individual miking) in an orchestral context….but doesn’t address a situation where there might be loud brass or a tymp directly adjacent to a pair of basses….any suggestions (fig 8 maybe?)

Last edited by studer58; 5th June 2021 at 05:30 AM..
Old 4th June 2021 | Show parent
  #276
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fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
The book has some good tips on spot miking for both double bass section and individual miking in an orchestral context….but doesn’t address a situation where there might be loud brass or a tymp closely nearby…any suggestions (fig 8 maybe?)
Plexi walls like "Clearsonic" work very well in this situation. Sometimes fig8 is not the ultimate solution because in some room, when it is really too loud, you have too much signal in the rear lobe.

"Treating" the room became something more and more important to me. The more the acoustic sounds good, the less you have to deal with microphone choice and positioning...
Old 4th June 2021 | Show parent
  #277
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern ➡️
Plexi walls like "Clearsonic" work very well in this situation. Sometimes fig8 is not the ultimate solution because in some room, when it is really too loud, you have too much signal in the rear lobe.

"Treating" the room became something more and more important to me. The more the acoustic sounds good, the less you have to deal with microphone choice and positioning...
Oops…I should have mentioned it’s in a concert, not studio, context…so more ‘combat conditions/damage mitigation’ mode Thus plexi panels not possible…

I’m going to try a dynamic mic, most likely an Audio Technica ATM250, as that should give me the desired degree of ‘side deafness’ I’m seeking?

Last edited by studer58; 5th June 2021 at 05:30 AM..
Old 5th June 2021 | Show parent
  #278
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The ATM250 did the trick…who’d have thought a hypercard dynamic kick mic would have a place in this context ? I’ll post some audio in the next few days…
Old 14th June 2021 | Show parent
  #279
Here for the gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Here's what I do:

I mic most things with stereo spots
a ton of tube mics
mostly omni mics (known as a real microphone)
no time alignment ever
spaced or non coincident mains
I don't record with any EQ
often mix directly to stereo with a Sonosax mixer
Mix to a Sonosax SX-R4+ recorder or to a Nagra Seven recorder or to a Stellavox SM-8 tape recorder
Reverb added at the session
I use an Acousence a/d converter
Hudson,
From what I've had the pleasure to listened to, your recordings are superb! I'm a bit late to this discussion. When you use omni spots, do you mean in studio? Do you find yourself a bit closer than you would otherwise be to your targets with omnis? And, what reverb(s) do you like? Thanks!
Old 15th June 2021 | Show parent
  #280
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohlfie ➡️
Hudson,
From what I've had the pleasure to listened to, your recordings are superb! I'm a bit late to this discussion. When you use omni spots, do you mean in studio? Do you find yourself a bit closer than you would otherwise be to your targets with omnis? And, what reverb(s) do you like? Thanks!
Thank you for your questions. In general, like many here, I rely on something far and something closer. Main pair can be ORTF or NOS or spaced omni on a bar (Rens Heijnis modified B&K 4006). Most soloists are miced in stereo with cardioid or some wider variant. Piano always gets Schoeps MK2 omnis or Schoeps MK5 omni mics. Chorus with orch. gets Pearl CC-22 cardioid--usually 5 or 6 of them. Chorus alone gets main pair and Pearl accents close in.

In order to imitate a cardioid mic with an omni, I move in about half again as close as I would with a cardioid mic. Just adjust impression of directionality by ear.

Currently using SONOSAX analog mixer. For reverb I like QUANTEC Yardstick or Lexicon 92.

For a/d conversion I just switched to the German artistic-fidelity
ACOUSENCE 191 designed by Ralf Koschnicke. Best converter out there by far to my ear. Supplied by Roland Storch at ADEBAR ACOUSTICS, Wiesbaden, Germany.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #281
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by citerbottal ➡️
Classical recordings after 1955 sound great. Their recording technology was light years ahead of that of popular music at the time (rock/pop did not catch up until the late 60s).

There's a bit of 'tape hiss' on many Sony/CBS recordings from this time but other than that they sound great. It's only pre-1955 that I start worrying that a recording is 'historical', that I'm supposed to ignore large recording defects in order to appreciate a specific performance.
Yes, early recordings, like early films, are almost impossible to consume.

But hearing Caruso sing E lucevan le Stelle in The Truffle Hunters was really moving. Recording was from first decade of 20C. One can only imagine how wonderful he would have sounded if properly recorded.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #282
Here for the gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Thank you for your questions. In general, like many here, I rely on something far and something closer. Main pair can be ORTF or NOS or spaced omni on a bar (Rens Heijnis modified B&K 4006). Most soloists are miced in stereo with cardioid or some wider variant. Piano always gets Schoeps MK2 omnis or Schoeps MK5 omni mics. Chorus with orch. gets Pearl CC-22 cardioid--usually 5 or 6 of them. Chorus alone gets main pair and Pearl accents close in.

In order to imitate a cardioid mic with an omni, I move in about half again as close as I would with a cardioid mic. Just adjust impression of directionality by ear.

Currently using SONOSAX analog mixer. For reverb I like QUANTEC Yardstick or Lexicon 92.

For a/d conversion I just switched to the German artistic-fidelity
ACOUSENCE 191 designed by Ralf Koschnicke. Best converter out there by far to my ear. Supplied by Roland Storch at ADEBAR ACOUSTICS, Wiesbaden, Germany.
Wow! Sorry, just now seeing this (need to change my notification preferences). Thanks for the detailed response! That all sounds amazing! When in studio, do you shy away from tracking in order to preserve the cohesiveness of an ensemble performance? In other words, do you use gobos or the like to add a bit of separation as needed. I imagine that could get tricky, especially if you wanted to avail yourself of a favorable acoustic.
During the pandemic, I've faced the most challenging of recording scenarios with the somewhat limited capacity I have (about 16 mics). Everybody spread waaay out, and louder instruments like horns or tympani positioned out front. Choirs in multiple places spread out. Especially challenging when all guns are blazing!
Assuming you still capture iso tracks fed from your analog mixer, do you use the mixer because it allows you better control? Or is there a sonic quality/tactile benefit? I know the Swiss issued Sonosax recorders employ some pretty advanced technology affording a wider dynamic range recording. Sound Devices has issued and is continuing to evolve in the direction of 32 bit floating point *recording,* effectively accommodating unlimited dynamic range (within the physical limits of recording). They presently offer it in their Mix-Pre series, but not yet in their top tier line, likely because of insane data requirements. I'm curious if anyone will bother to combine the two technologies of unlimited dynamic range with DSD when processing and memory allow it. Haha! But on the other end of those considerations is why you'd need that, except occasionally. For someone who knows what they're doing, there would be few occasions when you'd actually need it in classical music recording, assuming you have a high-quality, low noise signal already. But that's all off topic for this thread! Thanks for checking back!
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