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Pipe organ recording equipment and technique
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
When deciding how apportion one’s budget for recording, there are strict guidelines. Let’s simplify by saying that one concentrates ONLY on optimizing the source. Once you have a good acoustic, good player, and good instrument, one puts ALL their resources into the up front gear. The microphones, the preamps, and the converters.

If you don’t do it according to optimizing the SOURCE SOUND, one loses detail and nuance forever. Never able to ever be recovered or improved later.

Your decision is made for you by following this maxim.
Unfortunately when you work with organs and organists, often the instrument is already decided, good acoustics or not. I am often contracted as engineer to document organ sound for state and church subsidised projects, so picking the best source is no option. They pick it for us, so I can only hope for the best organist, an organ-builder that checked/tuned the instrument and that's it. Organist is first, microphone placement is second, cheap microphones always give a nice sound on single stops, complex stop combinations (full work, plenum = all registers open) you need good microphones and a lot of experience.
Old 22 hours ago | Show parent
  #152
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
Unfortunately when you work with organs and organists, often the instrument is already decided, good acoustics or not. I am often contracted as engineer to document organ sound for state and church subsidised projects, so picking the best source is no option. They pick it for us, so I can only hope for the best organist, an organ-builder that checked/tuned the instrument and that's it. Organist is first, microphone placement is second, cheap microphones always give a nice sound on single stops, complex stop combinations (full work, plenum = all registers open) you need good microphones and a lot of experience.
This is true but sometimes you can change the acoustics even if you can't change the instruments. Sometimes you can bring in some foam pads and some carpet or, if you need to go in the other direction, you can remove the cushions from the pews.

And you have the issue that the microphones that are a good pick in one room with one instrument might not be the best pick in another room with another instrument. This is what makes it interesting.
--scott
Old 21 hours ago | Show parent
  #153
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
Unfortunately when you work with organs and organists, often the instrument is already decided, good acoustics or not. I am often contracted as engineer to document organ sound for state and church subsidised projects, so picking the best source is no option. They pick it for us, so I can only hope for the best organist, an organ-builder that checked/tuned the instrument and that's it. Organist is first, microphone placement is second, cheap microphones always give a nice sound on single stops, complex stop combinations (full work, plenum = all registers open) you need good microphones and a lot of experience.
May I suggest that you have misunderstood the point of my post. I am arguing strongly for ONLY using the best microphones, the best preamps, and the best converters. Never any cheap mics or less than the best front end on the recording chain. Stop guessing.
Old 20 hours ago | Show parent
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
This is true but sometimes you can change the acoustics even if you can't change the instruments. Sometimes you can bring in some foam pads and some carpet or, if you need to go in the other direction, you can remove the cushions from the pews.

And you have the issue that the microphones that are a good pick in one room with one instrument might not be the best pick in another room with another instrument. This is what makes it interesting.
--scott
When I am working on an audio-documentation of a historical instrument I am not allowed to change the acoustics artificially. Room and organ are both historical objects and belong together. I have to treat them as fixed concepts. The point in this thread is that the OP wants to document his instrument as realistic as possible.
Old 20 hours ago | Show parent
  #155
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orgeltonmeister ➡️
When I am working on an audio-documentation of a historical instrument I am not allowed to change the acoustics artificially. Room and organ are both historical objects and belong together. I have to treat them as fixed concepts. The point in this thread is that the OP wants to document his instrument as realistic as possible.
Hmm...but as soon as the audience walks into the room the acoustics will change completely.  Are
you not even allowed to add damping to simulate the effect of the audience?
--scott
Old 19 hours ago | Show parent
  #156
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
Hmm...but as soon as the audience walks into the room the acoustics will change completely.  Are
you not even allowed to add damping to simulate the effect of the audience?
--scott
Well, yes that is a good point. We have discussed the differences in sound caused by people or no people in the venues where those historical instruments are placed, and decided to go for empty rooms, because in case of re-intonation and restoration, the organbuilders will work in a room not occupied by an audience.
Old 5 hours ago | Show parent
  #157
Gear Maniac
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio ➡️
This is true but sometimes you can change the acoustics even if you can't change the instruments. Sometimes you can bring in some foam pads and some carpet or, if you need to go in the other direction, you can remove the cushions from the pews.

--scott
why try and change an acoustic tho, it is what it is, its either a cavernous Gothic Cathedral type building or a heavily carpeted place
carpet is an organists nightmare, PPC's love them to try and keep the place warm

Last edited by Peter Allison; 31 minutes ago at 01:28 PM..
Old 21 minutes ago | Show parent
  #158
Gear Maniac
 
Peter Allison's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just to add that as Plush says, "ONLY using the best microphones, the best preamps, and the best converters" is a must, but sound quality can be ruined by bad mic placement, and that is by many big name companies, who do a great job with other genres (I have 1 CD in my meagre collection, played by one of the worlds top keyboard players, but let down by a so so recording). Sadly there are many very amateur sound recordists who do this (recording organs) just as a hobby (me included since June 1986)
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