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Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1231
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Does any sort of personal immunity (natural or vaccinated) prevent one from being a transfer vector to spreading it ?
We now have an early release publication on the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) on the prevention of infection under real world conditions. They followed 3950 health care workers in the US. The vaccines had 80% effectivity in preventing infection 14 days after the first shot and 90% effectivity two weeks after the second shot. (Note that this is about infection, not just whether they develop COVID-19 symptoms).

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n888

PS: There is also research on viral load in those that do still get infected after vaccination (With the Pfizer vaccine). People that get infected after vaccination see a 4 times lower viral load compared to unvaccinated people. This would indicate a reduced chance of infecting others.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21251283v1

This is all very good news.

Alistair
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Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #1232
Gear Addict
 
snoskit's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
(currently known blood clots with AstraZeneca, as well as possibly unknown ones you mention)
iirc there are no known blood clots with AZ, only suspected.

even if actually proven link, the blood clot chance with AZ is less than many over the counter painkillers.
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1233
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoskit ➡️
iirc there are no known blood clots with AZ, only suspected.

even if actually proven link, the blood clot chance with AZ is less than many over the counter painkillers.
True, but it's an ongoing "watch and act" situation worldwide re AZ...and varying age cutoffs are being suggested, as conservative safety buffers. Theyré also not yer regular blood clots, like deep vein thrombosis, embolism, blocked veins etc...but a rare yet nasty syndrome, tied up with brain clots, low platelet count etc.

Apparently a simple blood test can identify the specific condition quite quickly, and an appropriate medical response is being refined to sidestep bad consequences.

In general, populations aren't good at translating % risk statistics to everyday life: witness those who have airline flight aversion vs jumping into a car without a second's thought
Last edited by studer58; 1 week ago at 03:13 AM..
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1234
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➡️
But, the dirty little secret to the heard immunity equation is that none of these vaccines are approved for use by children yet.
There is good news on that front. Pfizzer has published a press release on their clinical trial for adolescents aged 12 - 15. The vaccine seems to have 100% effectivity in this age group. They will be submitting the data to the FDA and EMA soon. They have also started clinical trial in kids aged 6 months to 11 years.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...esults-pivotal

Quote:
So, we're probably never going back to life as normal and will be wearing masks in public for the rest of our natural lives.
I don't think so. Once everyone that wants to get vaccinated has had the opportunity to do so, things change IMO. (From an ethical point of view I mean but also from an epidemiological point of view). But before that, yes we still have to be careful so as not to infect people that haven't had a chance to get vaccinated yet.

Quote:
The wife and I have been having some serious conversations about whether to get our 16 year old daughter vaccinated or not. I'm sure the schools are going to require it to go back to in person school next fall. But, we are also both leery of some sort of hidden long term side effects. God help us is we find out that it causes infertility or birth defects in some detectable subset of the population.
Well... keep in mind that you would be choosing between a possible risk versus known risks of COVID-19. Risk of hospitalisation or death (small but real) or risk of long COVID-19, including in younger people on the one side, versus a known but tiny risk of side-effects from a vaccine or a potential risk somewhere in the future. Based on everything we know so far, the odds are very much in favour of vaccination. That is the less risky route.

I am on the science side. So much so that I am participating in a clinical trial and have had my two shots of a new not even yet approved mRNA vaccine. (Potentially they were placebo's but considering the immune response I had, I am quite sure I received the actual vaccine. I will know in a couple of months).

Alistair
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Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #1235
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Getting a good herd immunity via vaccinations world-wide needs to be the gold standard to shoot for...if for no other reason that we need to clear the decks so that emerging mutations can be targetted, as the next campaign in the war.

While there are relatively unchecked 3rd waves in places like Brazil, South Africa, India etc, the potential for new strains to evolve is ever-present.
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  #1236
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler ➡️
For the time being, it's on the individual. But right now there's also no mandated exclusion of services or travel or prohibition on working that hinges on your vaccination status. I'm sure that the government is tracking everyone's vaccination status and will find some way to exclude them from various important government programs and public access functions. They just haven't figured out how to do it yet.

One of the other things that the experts have been harping on is that vaccination doesn't end having to maintain physical distance or capacity limits nor having to wear a mask. I guess they want to use those as sticks to push everyone to get vaccinated so that we can reach the magic 85% of the population vaccinated to reach herd immunity.

But, the dirty little secret to the heard immunity equation is that none of these vaccines are approved for use by children yet. (Technically, they are not even approved by the FDA for use in adults yet either, rather they have received "emergency use authorization"). About 24% of the U.S. population is under 18 years of age. So even if every adult in the country got vaccinated, we wouldn't reach that herd immunity number until the vaccines are approved for use in children. And I suspect that as many as 30% of the adult population won't receive the vaccine because they don't think it is effective, or don't trust the government, or whatever.

So, we're probably never going back to life as normal and will be wearing masks in public for the rest of our natural lives.

The wife and I have been having some serious conversations about whether to get our 16 year old daughter vaccinated or not. I'm sure the schools are going to require it to go back to in person school next fall. But, we are also both leery of some sort of hidden long term side effects. God help us is we find out that it causes infertility or birth defects in some detectable subset of the population. We're done having kids, so it's not a huge deal for us. If it cause her to not be able to have children or they had some sort of birth defect...Scorched earth wouldn't even begin to describe it.
As a now retired pediatrician, who was and is very familiar with the vaccine development approval, and safety procedures, I have no concern at all about
the current COVID vaccines with US emergency approval. My daughter and I just got our second doses. My wife has had her first. I can’t imagine any plausible mechanism for birth defects being caused at sometime in the future. There is no plausible mechanism for the vaccine to alter your DNA so no genetic defects can be caused by the vaccine. Also there have been no problems with women who have gotten COVID vaccine during pregnancy.
Given the available evidence, I was not and am not worried that I, my wife, or my daughter have gotten COViD vaccine. To the contrary, I am very glad that we have been vaccinated. I see no reason to worry about your daughter getting the vaccine.
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