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Neumann KM A / KK184
Old 12th April 2020
  #1
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Neumann KM A / KK184

So to my memory I don't believe I've ever used a KM184. I've used KM84's a lot but only on drums and vibraphone. I own 2 pair of schoeps, plus some Klaus'd Neumann LDC's and a whole bunch of other mics.

I recently bought a single KM A with the KK184 capsule mainly for recording my classical guitar (mostly jazz and brazilian contexts, often with rhythm section, sometimes actually classical too but not often). I often use schoeps mk22 for this and overall am very happy with that. The second most used mic for this is the Klaus modified U87. Which is a really nice sounding mic. I like the Neumann midrange and the very slight upper midrange emphasis the 87 has, but I prefer the general character of an SDC for the guitar. So I decided to try the KM modular system.

I do not know how it compares to the regular 184 except I know they're nearly twice the price. I am really impressed with this mic. For close miking the instrument it isn't too bright but it has a nice frequency balance and presence to make the instrument speak nicely. I prefer it to using the schoeps and adding eq. It just seems more natural this way.

Speaking into the mic with a pop filter, it has a lot of similarity to this 87 as well, in all the good ways, but it's a little less bright.

I am curious how different this mic is to the regular km184 and if they aren't that different, why on earth does everyone bitch so much about the 184. It isn't super bright by any means and it has a very classy and finished sound. I love it.
Old 12th April 2020
  #2
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
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The KM 184-A (-D) had the same capsule as the KM 184 but with more modern electronics - having the capsule detachable adds to the cost, of course.
Old 12th April 2020
  #3
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🎧 15 years
Well for me, the KM184 has always been a great mic for classical guitar.

Last edited by David Spearritt; 13th April 2020 at 04:57 AM..
Old 12th April 2020
  #4
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rumleymusic's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
I am curious how different this mic is to the regular KM184 and if they aren't that different, why on earth does everyone bitch so much about the 184.
The KM84 and KM184 sound very different, that is probably the source of the discontent. That being said, I have never heard a recording with the 184 that I had any problems with. It works on just about everything. I have heard some folks say the KMA is a better amplifier than the one piece KM184, but can't back that up with any personal experience.

As far as general Neumann Bit%ing goes, I do have an issue with the sound of the TLM103, but the rest of the their mics sound good to me.
Old 13th April 2020
  #5
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🎧 15 years
I prefer the MKH8040 to the KM184.
To my ear the 184 has a slight grainy/harsh sound.
Old 13th April 2020
  #6
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RobAnderson's Avatar
 
15 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
km184's are a good mic at a reasonable price.

A little on the bright side of neutral, with a little thinness in the bass. I find them to not be a favourite on drum overhead, but useful on "softer" percussion and when spot mic'ing almost anything. Used with success on wind instruments of every stripe, piano's, acoustic guitars, cello, viola, etc. etc.
Old 13th April 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
on the ‘tried a new approach’ thread a KM 184 ‘d’ is used as the tymp spot; to me, while it doesn’t isolate as well as a mc930, it has a natural revealing character and blends perfectly with the mains

Last edited by emenelton; 13th April 2020 at 06:22 AM..
Old 13th April 2020
  #8
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Neumann KMA body is superior to the older KM100 series mic body. More quiet and with a greater dynamic range. Better rejection of RF and EMI too.

Worth buying in my opinion.

Here I am using it with KK183, KK184, KK131, and KK133.

I also notice that Neumann will focus only on analog mic stages from 2021 onwards.

The Neumann digital program is being discontinued as of 2021.
Old 13th April 2020 | Show parent
  #9
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huub's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Neumann KMA body is superior to the older KM100 series mic body. More quiet and with a greater dynamic range. Better rejection of RF and EMI too.

Worth buying in my opinion.

Here I am using it with KK183, KK184, KK131, and KK133.

I also notice that Neumann will focus only on analog mic stages from 2021 onwards.

The Neumann digital program is being discontinued as of 2021.
Really? Digital mics never took off but I really believe in the concept.
We have quite a few KM D mics but in practice we actually hardly use them.

Huub
Old 13th April 2020
  #10
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Neumann says they will offer service on the digital mics through the year 2030.
Old 14th April 2020 | Show parent
  #11
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
i have a couple of km184d's and some other digital mics in use here: i prefer them over the analog versions...

...but it's indeed a bit sad how neumann has been dealing with digital technology in terms of remote control/networking: mics with digital outputs, digital 'preamp' (aes42/aes3 converter), speakers with digital inputs!

___


[anyone getting rid of digital mics (neumann, sennheiser, schoeps), pls pm me: i might be interested]
Old 14th April 2020 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
I also notice that Neumann will focus only on analog mic stages from 2021 onwards.

The Neumann digital program is being discontinued as of 2021.
Great I hope I can pick up some, cheap. I think its amazing tech and sounds superb.
Old 14th April 2020
  #13
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I agree--it sounds fantastic. I use them with the Nagra VI. Also directly into SONOSAX.

Digital converter inbuilt to the Neumann mic is phenomenal.

What a sound.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #14
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub ➡️
Really? Digital mics never took off but I really believe in the concept.
We have quite a few KM D mics but in practice we actually hardly use them.

Huub
Agreed - I have the KM-D with KK183 and KK133 heads.

A friend who is a broadcast sound recordist uses the KM-D with very long runs from mics haning from the ceiling of concery halls - they are dead quiet as if they were plugged in on 2" cables - there is a lot of low-level rubbish that can get picked up with long cables.

AES42 is an excellent method and I'm very sad that more people did not take it up.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
Agreed - I have the KM-D with KK183 and KK133 heads.

A friend who is a broadcast sound recordist uses the KM-D with very long runs from mics haning from the ceiling of concery halls - they are dead quiet as if they were plugged in on 2" cables - there is a lot of low-level rubbish that can get picked up with long cables.

AES42 is an excellent method and I'm very sad that more people did not take it up.
Did your friend ever mention having issues with the km d’s initializing successfully?
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
Did your friend ever mention having issues with the km d’s initializing successfully?
No - and I never had any problems with my KM-D initialising either.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
No - and I never had any problems with my KM-D initialising either.
I have. Using the dmi-2/mode 2. Do you save in your interface the preset? I am not sure if it’s due to running at 192 but they seem fussy.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
I have. Using the dmi-2/mode 2. Do you save in your interface the preset? I am not sure if it’s due to running at 192 but they seem fussy.
I run 24/96 and set them up with the DMI-2. I also have two DMI-2p.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
I run 24/96 and set them up with the DMI-2. I also have two DMI-2p.
I am running them through some 4 channel snakes-staged before hand successfully but had issues once on site but only with one mic and the problem followed the mic. My last recording I replaced the mic cable then with 2 50’ xlr3’s for the 100’ run, but still no luck. Once back at the shop I went and created a preset in the dmi-2 for 192khz. Haven’t had a chance to test it on site again but I think there may be ‘bugs’ at 192.

Thanks
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #20
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
I am running them through some 4 channel snakes-staged before hand successfully but had issues once on site but only with one mic and the problem followed the mic. My last recording I replaced the mic cable then with 2 50’ xlr3’s for the 100’ run, but still no luck. Once back at the shop I went and created a preset in the dmi-2 for 192khz. Haven’t had a chance to test it on site again but I think there may be ‘bugs’ at 192.

Thanks
i hardly ever run things at higher speed but when occasionally doing so, my neumann digital mics have been performing without any issues - i'm using rme's dmc-842 though (and would a have dmi-2 which i'm willing to let go cheap)...
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #21
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
i hardly ever run things at higher speed but when occasionally doing so, my neumann digital mics have been performing without any issues - i'm using rme's dmc-842 though (and would a have dmi-2 which i'm willing to let go cheap)...
thanks-that’s good to know

RME has a history of doing almost everything with no issues
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #22
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huub's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
No - and I never had any problems with my KM-D initialising either.
We do have issues with the DMI8 and the awful 1990's serial interface and software.
Buggy and erratic.

It's rarely a plug and play situation.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub ➡️
We do have issues with the DMI8 and the awful 1990's serial interface and software.
Buggy and erratic.

It's rarely a plug and play situation.
when you get on site and all hooked up; do you ever experience a mic just not working/no blue light? no signal?
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub ➡️
We do have issues with the DMI8 and the awful 1990's serial interface and software.
Buggy and erratic.

It's rarely a plug and play situation.
1990s

KM-D came out in 2006.

When I did my first digital recording in 2006 I had to borrow pre-production microphones form Neumann as I could not get mine until the following year.
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #25
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
when you get on site and all hooked up; do you ever experience a mic just not working/no blue light? no signal?
Not yet
Old 15th April 2020 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
?!

the neumann dmi-interfaces* and the software to control them were buggy from the start - which would have been okay for a pre-production run but things just newer got bumped up in more than a decade, only new mic models got added!

to this day, i cannot get the remote control software to work on some pc's while i have yet to come across a piece of gear from rme which cannot get installed on any platform within two minutes - and their gear gets supported/drivers updated over decades...

i therefore gave up on using the dmi8 for live shows/broadcasting; besides repeated troubles (which are pretty hard to explain to any producer) the dmi8 was lacking connectivity for ethersound or madi so not really something you wanted to build a large system with!

* cannot speak of the dmi2; hope that one works?

imo neumann and networked systems is just a bad match: same with their digital speakers...




p.s. and yes, the looks were deeply rooted in the 90's; even the yamaha studio manager v1 looked more futuristic...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 17th April 2020 at 01:21 PM.. Reason: * edited
Old 16th April 2020 | Show parent
  #27
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
the neumann dmi-interfaces and the software to control them were buggy from the start - which would have been okay for a pre-production run but things just newer got bumped up in more than a decade, only new mic models got added!

to this day, i cannot get the remote control software to work on some pc's while i have yet to come across a piece of gear from rme which cannot get installed on any platform within two minutes - and their gear gets supported/drivers updated over decades...

i therefore gave up on using the dmi8 for live shows/broadcasting; besides repeated troubles (which are pretty hard to explain to any producer) the dmi8 was lacking connectivity for ethersound or madi so not really something you wanted to build a large system with!

imo neumann and networked systems is just a bad match: same with their digital speakers...




p.s. and yes, the looks were deeply rooted in the 90's; even the yamaha studio manager v1 looked more futuristic...
The RME AES42 8-ch. interface was excellent

I only used the 2-channel Neumann units.
Old 16th April 2020
  #28
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Using DMI-2 units here. No problems. Directly in to Nagra VI.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #29
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Using DMI-2 units here. No problems. Directly in to Nagra VI.
Same here - though I also got two DMI-2p when using the KM-D pair together with my stereo set of MKH 8000 series.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Using DMI-2 units here. No problems. Directly in to Nagra VI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
Same here - though I also got two DMI-2p when using the KM-D pair together with my stereo set of MKH 8000 series.
2 questions please:

Do you limit the km d mic cables to digital ones - single cable or string along multiple?

Do you save in the Neumann app the mic settings - to the mic - for the upcoming project or save to the mic it’s settings ever?
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