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Neumann KM A / KK184
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #31
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
2 questions please:

Do you limit the km d mic cables to digital ones - single cable or string along multiple?
I *do* use digital cable for the mics - the working distance is doubled with digital mic. cable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
Do you save in the Neumann app the mic settings - to the mic - for the upcoming project or save to the mic it’s settings ever?
All mic. settings are saved to the mic.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #32
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Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
Well for me, the KM184 has always been a great mic for classical guitar.
Me too, and for lots of other things as well - piano, small percussion instruments like bells, chimes, kalimbas, and even tiny guitar amps ( I have a 1/4 watt tube amp). The best pair of workhorse mic's in my studio.

Why do people hate them so? Some of it is group think and piling on, but i think it's a great mic, if a bit on the $ side.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
I *do* use digital cable for the mics - the working distance is doubled with digital mic. cable.




All mic. settings are saved to the mic.
That all sounds like good engineering practices.

I hesitate to relay what Neumann told me about analog vs digital mic cables but here goes-

Robb, at Neumann, emphasized to me in a lengthy phone call(he was in Germany and I was in Milwaukee); he said Neumann engineered the mic to work over any XLR3 cable so that it could be deployed on installed existing microphone cabling in concert halls or studios without issue.

I was surprised at that.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #34
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
That all sounds like good engineering practices.

I hesitate to relay what Neumann told me about analog vs digital mic cables but here goes-

Robb, at Neumann, emphasized to me in a lengthy phone call(he was in Germany and I was in Milwaukee); he said Neumann engineered the mic to work over any XLR3 cable so that it could be deployed on installed existing microphone cabling in concert halls or studios without issue.

I was surprised at that.
That is absolutely correct.

I worked for Sennheiser/Neumann at the time and went to Neumann HQ when the KM-D was released - I have even written a couple of AES papers on the subject (here and here).

But, as I said, using proper 110Ω balanced digital mic. cable will give you longer cable runs - if I remember correctly the approx. limit is anout 100m with standard mic. cable and 200m with digital cable.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #35
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by emenelton ➡️
2 questions please:

Do you limit the km d mic cables to digital ones - single cable or string along multiple?

Do you save in the Neumann app the mic settings - to the mic - for the upcoming project or save to the mic it’s settings ever?
Here always using digital AES cables to the Neumann digital interface. A stereo AES cable is used here.

Stored the settings in the mic before set up--96kHz. Never have the software running while using the microphones
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #36
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Here always using digital AES cables to the Neumann digital interface. A stereo AES cable is used here.

Stored the settings in the mic before set up--96kHz. Never have the software running while using the microphones
I do save the setup to the mic before hand but at 192khz.

I didn’t think saving the setup was important though because NEUMANN states that mode 2 takes over control of those settings in spite of what is saved to the mic - but I did.

Last edited by emenelton; 17th April 2020 at 05:41 PM..
Old 17th April 2020
  #37
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🎧 15 years
AES (110 ohm) digital cables can always be used for analog but in general,
(the above seems to be an exception),
analog XLR cables can’t be used for AES
digital.
Old 17th April 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie ➡️
AES (110 ohm) digital cables can always be used for analog but in general,
(the above seems to be an exception),
analog XLR cables can’t be used for AES
digital.
even this ('analog' cable for aes signals) is possible but depends on the gear - if you're unlucky, the gear at the receiving end cannot detect enough voltage and therefore cannot recognize a valid aes signal; some gear is more tolerant than other...

pls note that even when using 110ohm cables for aes signals, the sampling frequency affects maximum cable length: you can run down a signal at double speed over a longer distance than a signal at quad speed; pls also note that plugs/connectors can affect signal integrity - i therefore prefer to run very short cables from the mics to the remotely controlled preamps and use fibre cables for any distance longer than say 50m but not patch multiple pieces of short cables together.

[my large multicore consists of a redundant pair of fibre optical cables, a cat7e, four pairs of aes-cables (for intercom, click, redundant feed of mains or whatever) plus a 16a single phase power cable - heavy but it saved my ass on various occasions: guess i could even pull away my car...]
Old 24th April 2020 | Show parent
  #39
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie ➡️
analog XLR cables can’t be used for AES
digital.
They *can* be used for AES42 - it was specifically designed to be able to do that.

But the maximum length of the run is less than if if you used proper 110Ω AES cables.
Old 24th April 2020
  #40
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huub's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
AES42 really is quite robust. You can't compare it to AES3 In that regard.
We cabled a football pitch with old analog cables for a digital microphone test.
To our surprise this worked absolutely fine.

Huub
Old 27th April 2020
  #41
OAE
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
What do you think about Neumann not matching mics (selling matched pairs) when many other top manufactorers continue to do so?

Woud it bother you to use non matched main pair, if you could have something factory matched like Dpa, Schoeps, Gefell...? Or are the marginals small enough at Neumann in your experience?
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #42
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OAE ➡️
What do you think about Neumann not matching mics (selling matched pairs) when many other top manufactorers continue to do so?

Woud it bother you to use non matched main pair, if you could have something factory matched like Dpa, Schoeps, Gefell...? Or are the marginals small enough at Neumann in your experience?
Neumann have very tight manufacturing standards, so they are all within matched tolerances they say.

I remember hearing of a broadcaster that was acceptance testing a batch of 50 TLM 103 mics - there was no more than 0.5dB between them.

And Neumann *do* match microphones on request (and at a cost) - they matched a pair of U89 for me recently (customer request).

Gefell do not charge for matching - and will match triples (or more) as well as pairs if they are needed for bigger rigs (eg: Decca Tree). Although tolerances are also tight, matching does make sure that senstivity and frequency responses are closely matched.

Same with DPA and Schoeps - despite tight manufacturing tolerances, matching does make sure that you don't end up with one mic at one end of tolerance and the other at the other end.
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #43
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🎧 10 years
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Neumann/KM-183

This Neumann mic summary above suggests that matching may be not up to expectations (the review cited is now very old, and perhaps wise not to generalise from a single report !) ?
Old 27th April 2020 | Show parent
  #44
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Neumann mics match very well. If in doubt, purchase a stereo set.

Neumann uses automation to build their mics and Neumann has very strict quality control.

Get your wallet out now.
Buy them today.
Old 27th April 2020
  #45
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🎧 10 years
I am pretty sure all of Neumann’s ‘kk’ series capsules are available in matched pairs except the kk133s’.
Neumann claims that all kk133s’, due to manufacturing tolerances, conform to ‘pair matched’ characteristics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #46
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
The Neumanns are great, I have KM184 and also KM D preamps with KK184 and KK 185, the KM184 is smoother, more economical, but the digital version (KM D and KK184 combo) is punchier, more robust to RF interference (so important these days with everything spraying RF) , and in my opinion better for anything that is going to be digitally compressed in the final product. (Which is just about everything) . I have many digital mics, the Neumann KMR81D is very robust to using "regular" non AES XLR cables, but in my experience the KM D preamp is not so easy to use with standard XLR cabling. I should be more specific - : I've had problems with coiled cables in vDB boom pole and the KM D preamp. the KMR 81D is great with the non -110 Ohm coiled cable. The Mogami 110 Ohm digital cable is so thin and easy to terminate, I have made many cables so this is not a problem.....I actually have a set of mics for sale, please feel free to contact me here for on FB, William Tzouris - I'm selling (2) KM D, (2) KK 185m and (1) MM 184 as a set... Keeping my KMR 81Ds and my DMI-2 Portable.
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