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Sonosax SX-M2D2 - how practical?
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
how? I was unable to find that infornation in the manual!
See page 19 of the latest manual.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #62
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
how? I was unable to find that infornation in the manual!
For each output you can choose the source as mono, stereo, rev stereo (L and R reversed), MS, Channel, Ch 1 or Ch 2 to L,C or R.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #63
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It is unclear, though, if there's a way to adjust stereo width when decoding to M/S in the M2D2. Presumably when using an M/S rig you would put the "mid" mic in input 1 and the "side" mic in input 2, which is the normal approach. But unless it's possible with the limited internal mixer, I don't see an obvious way to adjust the stereo width in headphones or the other outputs. You can of course just record the individual channels and decode to MS in post, adjusting the width to your liking.

I haven't needed to use the mixer so haven't experimented with it, but it doesn't look like there's a way to adjust the mix of the two individual mic channels against each other (i.e., add more of channel 2 vs. channel 1 to bring in more of the side mic) -- you can only adjust the mix of the mics (together) with the other inputs (AES and USB). But I may be misinterpreting...the manual doesn't provide a lot of detail on how the mixer works in actual practice.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #64
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
It is unclear, though, if there's a way to adjust stereo width when decoding to M/S in the M2D2. Presumably when using an M/S rig you would put the "mid" mic in input 1 and the "side" mic in input 2, which is the normal approach. But unless it's possible with the limited internal mixer, I don't see an obvious way to adjust the stereo width in headphones or the other outputs. You can of course just record the individual channels and decode to MS in post, adjusting the width to your liking.
You’re correct. There’s no way to adjust the stereo width of MS for any outputs.
If the input channels are unlinked you can adjust the relative gain of the input channels to adjust stereo width. Once you have the desired stereo width you can link the input
channels and any further level adjustments
will be the same for both channels with the relative gains unchanged.

Options for linked vs unlinked can be chosen in Settings-Controls.

Last edited by Folkie; 19th March 2021 at 12:30 PM..
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #65
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locojohn's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Thank you! It makes it easier to come up with a decision of purchase
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
Thank you! It makes it easier to come up with a decision of purchase
A Sound Devices Mix-pre series recorder is much easier in this regard: once you link the channels you can use the channel 2 knob as a stereo width control. On my MixPre 6 when I do M/S recordings I often end up using the stereo mix, since I've adjusted it to taste in the field while recording, but the ISO files are there as backup in case I want to tweak further (which I sometimes do).

With the M2D2, if I were recording M/S I think it would be simpler to work with the iso wav files in post, decode to M/S, and adjust width at that point.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #67
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
A Sound Devices Mix-pre series recorder is much easier in this regard: once you link the channels you can use the channel 2 knob as a stereo width control. On my MixPre 6 when I do M/S recordings I often end up using the stereo mix, since I've adjusted it to taste in the field while recording, but the ISO files are there as backup in case I want to tweak further (which I sometimes do).

With the M2D2, if I were recording M/S I think it would be simpler to work with the iso wav files in post, decode to M/S, and adjust width at that point.
That makes sense! As it is still possible to monitor the decoded M/S mix on M2D2 in stereo?

How would you compare the quality of recordings between the M2D2 and MixPre-6?

I've been considering MixPre-6, but SX-M2D2 + iPhone seems to be a very attractive compact option indeed! I believe the audio quality is the best in this case, which is a main reason for me going that way.

Best,
Andrejs
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
That makes sense! As it is still possible to monitor the decoded M/S mix on M2D2 in stereo?
Yes, you can monitor it via the headphone output as explained by Folkie above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
How would you compare the quality of recordings between the M2D2 and MixPre-6?
A hotly debated topic on gearslutz; to my ears the Sonosax sounds better: I hear more depth in the recordings but (to my ears) the differences are not enormous. They are noticeable, though. I use the MixPre mainly for field recording for video and the M2D2 for music.

The MixPre is more practical in terms of usability and flexibility (and it has tripod mounts built in, which is handy for field recording), but I like the simplicity of the M2D2, prefer its display (you can match gain levels of the inputs precisely and easily without having to go to different channel menus), and the sound quality of the M2D2 is brilliant.
Old 19th March 2021 | Show parent
  #69
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
Yes, you can monitor it via the headphone output as explained by Folkie above. [...] The MixPre is more practical in terms of usability and flexibility (and it has tripod mounts built in, which is handy for field recording), but I like the simplicity of the M2D2, prefer its display (you can match gain levels of the inputs precisely and easily without having to go to different channel menus), and the sound quality of the M2D2 is brilliant.
Thank you for your time and explanations, Brad. Very much appreciated!
Old 20th March 2021
  #70
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plexi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
@ Plush Am I I crazy thinking this would be the ultimate interface for home use? Not cheap, but a whole lot less than other hi-end converters like say Lynx Hilo.
Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plexi ➡️
@ Plush Am I I crazy thinking this would be the ultimate interface for home use? Not cheap, but a whole lot less than other hi-end converters like say Lynx Hilo.
I think you’re absolutely right.
Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #72
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
For its performance and features it IS cheap.

But nothing Swiss is bargain basement.

Buy it today directly from the Swiss factory. Or from Trew Audio in LA.

www.sonosax.ch
Old 20th March 2021 | Show parent
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic ➡️
A question about the SX-M2D2 dynamic range. I read that the SX-R4+ dynamic range of 135dB is limited in the USA version to 114dB because of patent issues. Is the SX-M2D2 also limited in the US version?
Because M2D2 is a more recent design, it achieves its dynamic range (135dB) by using only one AD chip unlike SX-R4+'s dual AD chip design. At least that's my understanding.
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #74
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexi ➡️
@ Plush Am I I crazy thinking this would be the ultimate interface for home use? Not cheap, but a whole lot less than other hi-end converters like say Lynx Hilo.
It can probably be. Price is really good for the features & Size is fantastic.

But in the end, it depends on your needs.

- Only 2 in.
- No midi I/O on the box.
- Only one stereo unbalanced out / one headphones out.
- Stability of drivers/compatibility ? but i think it should be pretty good.

If most of what you do is record up to two inputs and listen back, it's a beast.

I'm on the fence of buying one for myself, for video work/interviews and run and gun recordings where i don't need 10+ inputs.
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino ➡️
- Stability of drivers/compatibility ? but i think it should be pretty good.
It's a class-compliant device: on Mac or Linux (or Android/iOS) it works out of the box, no drivers needed. On Windows you need the ASIO driver and initially I had a few problems with setting the sample rate (e.g., the M2D2 was set to 96khz but the driver was stuck at 48k) but I think that was a DAW-specific issue. It's working flawlessly now for me now. There were a few bugs that have been fixed with firmware; I haven't encountered any issues since the last firmware update in January.
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #76
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino ➡️
- Only one stereo unbalanced out / one headphones out.
It has digital I/O as well.

Andrejs
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino ➡️
I'm on the fence of buying one for myself, for video work/interviews and run and gun recordings where i don't need 10+ inputs.
One thing to think through is how you're going to carry it. If you use a bag, no worries -- check out the Sonosax users group on Facebook or the JW Sound Group forum and you'll see a number of bag solutions that people are using, including some nice (but pricey) custom designs. If you want to physically mount the M2D2 on a camera or a tripod/magic arm, you'll need some sort of case for it -- there are files for a 3d-printed mounting accessory on the Sonosax website, but unless you have a 3d printer or have a friend with one, printing a one-off copy will be expensive. I priced it at one point and it wasn't worth it; it would be great to pool a bunch of orders from users to see if we could get a group discount from Shapeways or another printer.
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hi, I can print one for you. 25 Euro + shipping.
Erich
Old 21st March 2021 | Show parent
  #79
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by locojohn ➡️
It has digital I/O as well.

Andrejs
I was listing the potentiel drawbacks. The digital I/O is a really nice feature I need !

Quote:
I haven't encountered any issues since the last firmware update in January.
This is really good news, but expected from Sonosax.

For carrying, i'll think about it (got a sound devices 702, will try to find how to fit everything inside a bag). For camera mounting, i'll download the sonosax file, and may modify it to fit my needs before printing.

Need to sell some stuff, and then i'll probably buy this
Old 26th March 2021 | Show parent
  #80
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Andrew Bacon's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have no doubt that we’re talking about the top, best, unequaled 2 ch AD and mic pres in a box.
Why does it all have to be TA3? We get it, you integrate but if it was twice as big I would have no qualms. Excellent to hear about the use stories here.

Last edited by Andrew Bacon; 26th March 2021 at 01:07 AM.. Reason: Sonosax
Old 4 weeks ago
  #81
Here for the gear
 
Hi all,

I thought I'd add my positive experience with the Sonosax M2D2, hopefully to add some confidence to those folk who might be slightly apprehensive to make the jump.

I'm coming from a slightly different and less sophisticated set-up than most members here; I'm a long time user of all-in-the-box audio interfaces, mainly consisting of RME and Apogee amongst others, and for context, I'm first and foremost a musician (rather than engineer) recording anything from sacred choral/organ music through to acoustic ensembles, rock/indie and electronic music - so..most of my spare cash goes on instruments!

My constraints have always been lack of mobility with my set-up; compromising recording quality on the move, and/or having loads of outboard gear which makes mobile recording a bit of a faff!

For a long time I have procrastinated over getting a new interface that will work with my iPad Pro, OSX and Windows machines, and at the same time, also wanting to get significantly better microphone preamp. I had resigned myself to the usual stable of products, all of which didn't really cut it for me and presented lots of compromises around it being truly mobile at the sound quality I was looking for (and also, without having to sell a kidney to pay for it).

So...enter the Sonosax SXM2D2+. What can I say other than Wow! It seems to have everything:
- truly amazing mic preamps (I literally cannot get my head around how good they make my modest mic selection sound). AND...there are 2 of them!!
- It runs off Lithium-Ion vape batteries - why don't more manufacturers do this? It's brilliant and makes perfect sense. I've always felt trying to draw power for 48v from a battery powered host device whilst working mobile is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. This thing runs for ages from 1 interchangable battery (in fact, you can swap out the battery without the device turning off!)
- It's USB C and class compliant - no messing with lots of adaptors, USB C to USB C straight into ipad/phone or computer.
- I can use SPDIF through the AES input to record my keyboards etc (love that i can do this!).
- The internal routing of the Sonosax is really flexible, and allows easy routing in the box. Need to capture something from another app? No problem, just set the routing in the M2D2 and away you go - I literally feel I can use this device for any application.
- The menus of the M2D2 are logical and easy to get around. After an hour or so messing around with I had no problems doing everything i needed to with ease.
-TA3 connectors - for me, having these makes perfect sense. I bought some adaptors and barely notice they are there. I'd pick this over having a bus-powered device any day of the week. The M2D2 has a very small footprint and when you get your hands on it the TA3 connections with adaptors for me, is preferable to XLR and a bigger device.
- No MIDI - I initially felt this might be a constraint for my needs but quickly overcame this. I use a Nektar Panorama P6 as a controller and as this is class compliant I can plug this straight into my iPad (via a USB hub) and power from a small battery pack on the move. For non-class compliant MIDI devices, a simple MIDI to USB adaptor works fine for my needs - job done
- Unbalanced outs - I understand that this might be an issue for some, but for me works fine with my ADAM A7's.
Latency - I thought this would definitely be where the device fell down, but how wrong I was. I am currently using this with my old Windows machine running a number of large orchestral sample libraries (such as Spitfire Audio, ProjectSAM etc). I honestly couldn't tell much difference from my RME interface - latency is incredibly low, and as a fairly accomplished pianist I am very aware of how annoying latency can be. I've checked this several times and with monitoring when recording from microphones also, all works flawlessly (still can't get my head around how Sonosax has achieved this).

Suffice to say...my other audio interfaces are now gathering dust!

It has to be said that this device is a steal for the price. A top quality audio interface and world class microphone pres for less than £1300, that works with everything from a phone to a Windows machine. It is a no brainer...and for me, wipes the floor with any other similar device I can think of on the market.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #82
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massimo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Please read up on the Sonosax technology.

Of course it is better than any Apogee product which is a run of the mill conversion technology. Here, I have found the Sonosax mic preamps to be the best in the world--this conclusion based on using their SX-R4+, ADA8+, and M2D2 units.

Conversion is clearly the best in the world and better than super top end units like dCS, DAD (Digital Audio Denmark) Merging converters. How about 90KHz. treble response at 192kHz?

Dynamic range of 135dB?

You're in a whole 'nother world with Swiss Sonosax sound.

Don't goof around with others if you need a 2 channel preamp and USB interface.
Hard for me to even think those converters can do better than the Acousence- I am so happy with those
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #83
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo ➡️
Hard for me to even think those converters can do better than the Acousence- I am so happy with those
Hello Massimo,

YES SIR!

I just made a move to Acousence 191 a/d converter.
It arrived here this week from Adebar Acoustics in Wiesbaden, Germany.

Will report in about how it compares to what I have here:
DAD AX24
Sonosax SX-R4+
Sonosax SX-AD8+
RME AD8 QS
Mytek 96
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
[. . .] I just made a move to Acousence 191 a/d converter.
It arrived here this week from Adebar Acoustics in Wiesbaden, Germany.

Will report in about how it compares to what I have here:
DAD AX24
Sonosax SX-R4+
Sonosax SX-AD8+
RME AD8 QS
Mytek 96
Very much looking forward to this!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Obba ➡️
- It runs off Lithium-Ion vape batteries - why don't more manufacturers do this? It's brilliant and makes perfect sense. I've always felt trying to draw power for 48v from a battery powered host device whilst working mobile is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. This thing runs for ages from 1 interchangable battery (in fact, you can swap out the battery without the device turning off!)

.....

It has to be said that this device is a steal for the price. A top quality audio interface and world class microphone pres for less than £1300, that works with everything from a phone to a Windows machine. It is a no brainer...and for me, wipes the floor with any other similar device I can think of on the market.
I'd say it's a brave move in a commercial sense - those kind of batteries are kind of user unfriendly because of the hazards they can pose if handled incorrectly or charged wrongly. It's more common for them to be packaged complete with charging monitoring and temperature monitoring circuit for safety reasons. There are also many many fake 18650 cells out there claiming to be high capacity that are nowhere near and also those that loose capacity quickly.

For people like me who embraces DIY and takes an interest in their dangers, it's great! The cells are virutually free - genuine Sony, Samsung or LG cells etc - from old laptop batteries. Normally when a laptop battery goes bad, it's one cell out of the 9 and the rest test fine. You can dismantle them and charge them and use them. But always beware of storage and charging precautions - they can go into run-away melt down and catch fire fiercely.

A Sony style battery pack is 2 or 4 of these same cells in a safely monitored battery pack. Hirose allows connection of any battery system you want and is a universal standard for all your gear...

So whilst convenient in some senses, its a bit maverick and moves away from standards.



How about the Merging Anubis as a comparison? Portable with an external battery power source, but a completely different aim with that device.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nat8808 ➡️
How about the Merging Anubis as a comparison? Portable with an external battery power source, but a completely different aim with that device.
They are a bit apples and oranges: the M2D2 is aimed primarily at production sound recordists for cinema and video and is far more portable (and camera-mountable), but of course it happens to work very well for recording music.

I spent months trying to decide between these two devices and ultimately went with the M2D2 because it's USB. Ethernet and I do not get along; I have wasted many hours of my life trying to get various devices to communicate successfully and consistently over Ethernet and reading the Anubis thread here on gearspace confirmed that I'd made the right choice in the M2D2. AoIP may be the future but it's not my future.

Apparently Sonosax contributed a bit to the design/development of the Anubis.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #87
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
They are a bit apples and oranges: the M2D2 is aimed primarily at production sound recordists for cinema and video and is far more portable (and camera-mountable), but of course it happens to work very well for recording music.

I spent months trying to decide between these two devices and ultimately went with the M2D2 because it's USB. Ethernet and I do not get along; I have wasted many hours of my life trying to get various devices to communicate successfully and consistently over Ethernet and reading the Anubis thread here on gearspace confirmed that I'd made the right choice in the M2D2. AoIP may be the future but it's not my future.

Apparently Sonosax contributed a bit to the design/development of the Anubis.
I get the impression from mentions of Sonosax, their input was with the mechanical design. I wonder if that would be to do with reduction in interfernce too. Their involvement would probably indicate they didn't see it as a competing product either..

The guy I replied to was using the M2D2 for mobile recording with the implication of being at a venue rather than field recording so in that sense, in terms of the M2D2 "wiping the floor" with alternatives, I'd guess in a sound quality perspective the Anubis would compete whilst also offering far more capability - so more it providing a different set of tools than being inferior. It is a bit more expensive though and getting the digital audio out only via ethernet is limiting, especially on a portability level (for field recording) (and modern Macbooks not having any direct ethernet ports will disqualify it for some).

So yep, a little more like apples and oranges as you say, than one being vastly superior than the other (as implied by "wiping the floor") .
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #88
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massimo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush ➡️
Hello Massimo,

YES SIR!

I just made a move to Acousence 191 a/d converter.
It arrived here this week from Adebar Acoustics in Wiesbaden, Germany.

Will report in about how it compares to what I have here:
DAD AX24
Sonosax SX-R4+
Sonosax SX-AD8+
RME AD8 QS
Mytek 96
Hi Plush, looking forward to your comparison. I too got my Acousence from Roland (which is where I also got my Gordon from)
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