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Schoeps RC active stands
Old 5th January 2020
  #1
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Schoeps RC active stands

Does anyone here use the Schoeps RC active stands? There are certain live performance video situations where I would love having access to those beautiful stands. However, $750 each is quite an investment for an occasional need - is there any chance of ever finding used RC units for sale?
Old 5th January 2020
  #2
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fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
For the 2 violins and the viola, home made with some K&M parts, cheaper than the Schoeps ones... And those ones have the Schoeps MK22 with KC10 cable.

Base is:
https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/km_260_mikrostativ.htm
This one is lighter:
https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/km_2601.htm
I use this articulation:
https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/km_...i_boom_arm.htm
and to finish the final stick:
https://www.thomannmusic.ch/intl/km_2000530055.htm

Super modular, I have several sticks with several lenghts.
with a small microphone cable the audience doesn't see a lot...

Total cost: for the light base Chf 55, the heavy one Chf 71.. Almost the same in USD.

Happy new year!

Fred

Edit: the one for the singer and the flute( not on stage but the stand is) same thing with a shorter base and 2 sticks, a full one screwed in a shorter one. Attached is how it looks with a CM-3
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps RC active stands-sl-voix.jpg   Schoeps RC active stands-09-imgext.jpg  
Old 5th January 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
Schoeps stands and Lemo extension tubes are indeed very useful and effective in video work or where you want high visibility of the performer(s). I own two of these stands - one tall vertical rod with a long extension tube and one short vertical rod [60 cm] with two short tubes [70 cm]. My kit looks very much like the two stands used by WGBH for the Xuefei Yang interview and performance below. I mostly use the longer to hold a CCM 41 and the two shorter to hold a matched pair of CCM 5 mics.

The longer tube seems a bit 'springy' - I kind of wish they had used carbon fiber rods for maximum stiffness. And while the plastic RG 8 stand swivels have never failed me, they do seem a bit weak and less than I would have expected from Schoeps. They are definitely the weak spot in the implementation. I would have expected and preferred something with much more positive control and precision - like what one gets with professional lighting stand grip heads.

I purchased the taller/longer stand several years back, and the shorter stand with double boom arms in mid 2018. So, knowing their weaknesses, I continued to invest in them.

Can't imagine ever selling mine, but I have never gone looking for used.





Best regards,

Ray H.
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath ➡️
The longer tube seems a bit 'springy' - I kind of wish they had used carbon fiber rods for maximum stiffness. .
This product gives you the carbon fibre, the rigidity and the 3/8 threads. Depending on the weight of the mic you'll get little to no bending with a lightweight mic like MKH8000 series (with MZL remote cable, to remove the XLR from the business end !) or Line Audio CM or OM-1 mics.

You need to slide (or slice) off the foam handgrips of course....

https://www.rode.com/accessories/microboompolepro
Old 5th January 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Is it possible to order the collet and chuck separately that will screw into the K&M 250mm heavy round cast-iron base?
https://schoeps.de/en/products/acces...es/bf-250.html
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
Hi David -

I have read - somewhere on the Internet - of people doing exactly that. . .years back, and I don't remember where, or what all was involved.


Ray H.

Extra Chit-chat: I've mostly gone to Redding Audio [the US importer] for extra parts. But for some unknown reason, the Schoeps corporate office seems to think I live in New Zealand. Each time I make an inquiry to Schoeps in Deutschland, I get a response from Nigel Russell at Oceania. . .who seems a rather nice guy.
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
Is it possible to order the collet and chuck separately that will screw into the K&M 250mm heavy round cast-iron base?
https://schoeps.de/en/products/acces...es/bf-250.html
Look here:

http://digitalaudioservice.de/schoeps-spv-12-3-8.html

Best,
Dirk
Old 5th January 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 
tourtelot's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I made two nice-looking "thin-stands" for Schoeps colette series with some epoxy glue, some 5/16" carbon fiber tube, a Schoeps colette clip, an Atlas flat mic-stand base and some hardware that I found around the shop from some still photo articulated arms. Looks nice and was super inexpensive to make.

But then, I DO have a lot of free time on my hands.

D.
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
the schoeps' stands are indeed expensive; i only get to use them when working for the national broadcaster as i always have been opting to buy more preamps or capsules when spending this amount of money on schoeps gear...

i'm using 'normal' stands from k&m, either standard stands with legs or round plates or then tinker things in the warehouse, along the lines fred2bern has suggested.
Old 5th January 2020
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
We made one very long stand for a vocal performer using the same method as Tourtelot for a steel drum recording session. It seemed to work fine. The performer liked it so much he asked to purchase it. It is amazing what parts you can find on Amazon.com for making just about anything.
Old 5th January 2020
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman ➡️
Does anyone here use the Schoeps RC active stands? There are certain live performance video situations where I would love having access to those beautiful stands. However, $750 each is quite an investment for an occasional need - is there any chance of ever finding used RC units for sale?
I wouldn't wait for it; I've been looking for used Schoeps for the last few years and I've not seen any come up. I saw a pair of the Sennheiser version once (and bought them)
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageOp ➡️
I wouldn't wait for it; I've been looking for used Schoeps for the last few years and I've not seen any come up. I saw a pair of the Sennheiser version once (and bought them)
Yeah this, still looking. If I had them they'd be among the last bits I'd sell, and I think most recordists feel the same way.
Old 5th January 2020
  #13
Gear Addict
 
DaveyJones's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I have 4 of them here, one for each of the MK4s we have. They are great, my only problem is they are more of a pain to setup than a regular mic stand but, heck, they look SO much better.

Interestingly, the bases cost £150 and when they arrive and you flip them over they are the same thing (as in K&M branded) as a £40 K&M round base (and you even get a vertical post included in that price). Admittedly you get a Schoeps vice grip thing on the bottoms but it's essentially the same product with a slightly different fitting to it.
The price is crazy...

Dave
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyJones ➡️
I have 4 of them [. . .] The price is crazy... [. . .]
If my Schoeps stands and/or extension tubes somehow got lost, I'd order another set as quickly as my supplier could answer their phone in the morning.

Seems like I buy a lot of gear at crazy [high] prices. . .and I rarely regret doing so.


Best regards,

Ray H.
Old 5th January 2020 | Show parent
  #15
Deleted 141eef3
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern ➡️
For the 2 violins and the viola, home made with some K&M parts, cheaper than the Schoeps ones... And those ones have the Schoeps MK22 with KC10 cable.
Hi Fred,

Thank you for sharing this information -- I remember you showing a photo like this sometime ago, but it is very helpful to have the K&M model numbers. I'm very tempted to imitate your technique.

May I ask how you are attaching the MK22 capsules with active cables to the stands? I tried zooming in on the image, but it is hard to see what sort of mount/clip is being used there...

Many thanks again,
Luke
Old 6th January 2020
  #16
0VU
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
Is it possible to order the collet and chuck separately that will screw into the K&M 250mm heavy round cast-iron base?
https://schoeps.de/en/products/acces...es/bf-250.html
Yes. It's what I've done with most of mine. You should be able to order the clutch/chuck thing from your Schoeps distributor (part number SPV12‐3/8). You'll need to make sure that you also order the adapter to fit it to the K+M base, though, as it's not part of the normal chuck as supplied (sorry - don't know the part number, I just asked for the thread adapter part and described it). The SPV12‐3/8 comes with a 3/8" thread in the base to screw it onto a mic stand or other 3/8" bolt. To fit it to a K+M stand base Schoeps can supply a silver chromed thread adapter which has a 3/8" male thread on one end that screws into the base of the chuck and a male thread on the other end to fit the stand base. You can fit them to the 260 type 250mm diameter heavy round bases or to the low profile grey nextel finished bases from the 26010 "soft-touch" grey version of the stand which, handily, matches the grey Nextel finish of the tubes/mics. Those bases are lighter so it's best to stick with the heavy black version for taller upright/rod combinations but the grey ones are fine for a single RC1200 or similar.

Alternatively, the Schoeps upright rods have a 3/8" female thread in their base and a male thread at the top under a little cap. This lets you screw rods together to extend them but it also means that you can screw the upright rod directly onto any stand or stand base with a 3/8" male thread. So you could just buy the thread adapter thing, screw it into the stand base, screw the rod directly onto the adapter and not bother with the clutch at all. The only danger might be that if someone puts a lateral force into the upright by pushing it or walking into it, then I guess that the thinnest point on the base adapter could maybe snap, which wouldn't happen with the chuck.

An idea I copied from some stands I once hired, which were for CCMs or KC cable extended capsules, uses an 8mm steel rod with a groove cut along it's length and a 3/8" threaded section at the top. The top takes the standard Schoeps mini mic clip for CCM or KC fitted capsules and the cable slots into the groove down the rod to keep it looking neat. The cable is a good interference fit into the groove but for extra security a bit of PVC tape around the rod makes sure it stays in place. On the bottom of the rod is a female 3/8" threaded bit to take a stand. They're a lot cheaper than the Schoeps extension tubes but just give a fixed vertical rise - no tilting. Using a short K+M telescopc 'banquet' stand on the base gives a bit of rise and fall and the mic clip at the top swivels to give angle adjustment. Having said that, if you do want to tilt them, they do fit into the Schoeps RG8/RG88 clamp that attach RC extension tubes to the uprights.

I've got quite a lot of Schoeps tubes and active cables and use them often. Are they worth the money? For me, yes but everyone will have their own needs and priorities. If you don't need them often then hiring is a good way to go. (If your local hire companies don't have any, Schoeps have a usful list on their website of hire companies which stock their products or a call to your local distributor will usually tell you where you can find them.) Whilst it's possible to use/combine/modify K+M stands to produce all kinds of useful combinations of stand, the Schoeps stuff really does have the edge for in picture work. At a price.


RC tubes do come up secondhand occasionally but aren't common on eBay.
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukedamrosch ➡️
May I ask how you are attaching the MK22 capsules with active cables to the stands? I tried zooming in on the image, but it is hard to see what sort of mount/clip is being used there...
Luke
Dear Luke,

In this case the MK22 is used with a Schoeps original KC cable. Including with this cable is a clip like this:
https://schoeps.de/en/products/acces...sions/sgc.html

but I prefered to order and use the metal version:
https://schoeps.de/en/products/acces...ions/sgcm.html

Fred.
Old 6th January 2020
  #18
Deleted 141eef3
Guest
Wonderful, thank you very much for the clarification, Fred.
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0VU ➡️
Yes. It's what I've done with most of mine. You should be able to order the clutch/chuck thing from your Schoeps distributor (part number SPV12‐3/8). You'll need to make sure that you also order the adapter to fit it to the K+M base, though, as it's not part of the normal chuck as supplied (sorry - don't know the part number, I just asked for the thread adapter part and described it). The SPV12‐3/8 comes with a 3/8" thread in the base to screw it onto a mic stand or other 3/8" bolt. To fit it to a K+M stand base Schoeps can supply a silver chromed thread adapter which has a 3/8" male thread on one end that screws into the base of the chuck and a male thread on the other end to fit the stand base. You can fit them to the 260 type 250mm diameter heavy round bases or to the low profile grey nextel finished bases from the 26010 "soft-touch" grey version of the stand which, handily, matches the grey Nextel finish of the tubes/mics. Those bases are lighter so it's best to stick with the heavy black version for taller upright/rod combinations but the grey ones are fine for a single RC1200 or similar.
Many thanks 0VU, excellent info as usual. I will see if the (new) Aussie Schoeps agent knows about these parts and can supply them separately.

I love these Schoeps RC tubes and they look so classy in a classical concert where viewing sensibilities need to be considered. With the new tiny CMC1 preamp on the base, they look even better. The K&M bases are much better value as you say and easily available here in Aus. I have also found some nice 12mm carbon for some longer vertical extension.
http://www.carbonfiber.com.au/prod83.htm
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
I have also found some nice 12mm carbon for some longer vertical extension.
http://www.carbonfiber.com.au/prod83.htm
The choice to make with carbon fibre is solid rods vs tubes...the weights are so negligible with either that it's down to which is more resistant to bending ? They're also surprisingly fragile and require their own carry bag....you don't just throw them in with regular steel mic stand parts.

Also how to add threaded ends to allow mic clips or additional rods to be attached. These have to be epoxied on, and correctly prepped for this....there are plenty of how-to YouTube guides.

Rather than reinvent the wheel, your local fishing rod custom building shop has been dealing with these sorts of things for years, albeit with tapered rather than constant diameter tubes.

There are also multi-element telescoping fishing rods, which tend to lock with a twist-type mechanism for each section, and fold down to a very small size....but I haven't been able to find a source for the associated nested/telescoping hardware.

I suspect the telescoping principle would result a much more flexible, bendy rod than a single rod, which isn't ideal for mics on stage, despite the ebility to fine-tune length exactly.

Last edited by studer58; 6th January 2020 at 09:57 AM..
Old 6th January 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
If you're really handy, and don't might adapting and repurposing things, lighting supplies shops can provide some suitable solutions....this pic from a well known Scandinavian home furnishing retailer.
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/40385637/
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/80356633/
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps RC active stands-image.jpeg  
Old 6th January 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
 
fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Dear friends,

Of course the colette system is one of the most used on stage and is really nice, But:

With the price of this system you "just" can use the Schoeps colette. If one day you want to try (or change) because you prefer another brand for a better, newer, another color because your taste changed, too bad.
For the price of the colette system for violin - or for singer - and for one microphone, you almost pay the price for another Schoeps microphone. This system is really overpriced for what it is.

You'll probably say that Schoeps is the best, you'll never change etc. but in fact you're trapped.
Sennheiser or Neumann also have the same kind of system, with finally the same problem.

That's why I decided (but It's just my opinion) to go with the same kind of light system but on a modular way.

Another fact: here in Europe, if you have a problem you need to solve quickly you'll find K&M gear faster than Schoeps. Go to the closest music shop and ask for a stand tube RC1200 and you'll see.


Don't misunderstand me, I have some Schoeps microphones that I use most of the time when I record in studio, my main activity.
And these Schoeps stands are really beautiful on stage! But I want to keep open the way I capture the sound, even in a live situation.

And I'm also not a millionaire...

Fred.
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fred2bern ➡️
You'll probably say that Schoeps is the best, you'll never change etc. but in fact you're trapped.
Sennheiser or Neumann also have the same kind of system, with finally the same problem...........And I'm also not a millionaire...Fred.
Reminds me of the business model of a certain fruit-named computer empire....buy in and stay loyal
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #24
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fred2bern's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Reminds me of the business model of a certain fruit-named computer empire....buy in and stay loyal

I'm on the dark side of this "fruit named computer empire" force...
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
[. . .] I love these Schoeps RC tubes and they look so classy in a classical concert where viewing sensibilities need to be considered. [. . .]
For my needs, this is the primary emphasis - though I'm not targeting classical concerts. There are, of course, secondary and tertiary, etc. benefits as well [1].

I would assert that the impact these stands/active-tubes have on recorded sound [vs. any reasonable alternative] is completely undetectable by any and every blind listener - no exceptions.

The visual esthetic, however - even to those who have no clue whatsoever that the Schoeps brand even exists - is [I think] rarely negligible. . .and often quite dramatic.

People often hear what they see, and the elegant look of Schoeps stands/active-tubes [particularly with CCMs] is no small part of the experience.

Yes, from a purely functional point of view, Schoeps stands are way-overpriced. From a wider value proposition. . .well, it depends on one's objectives, opportunity costs, etc. For me, the kit was worth every penny.


Ray H.

[1] Not detailed in this post.
Old 6th January 2020
  #26
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
I added active extension-tubes and stands to my kit at the end of last season. The response from my clients has been overwhelmingly positive with regards to the minimization of the visual impact of stands in a live-performance.
Many of the comments on this thread match my experience. They really do disappear. Schoeps makes great capsules, so the recordings still sound great.
The negatives are the cost, and added time in set-up and strike. The former turned out fine; as they’ve paid for themselves. The latter is a legitimate complication. I can only deploy them when there’s a sufficient amount of allotted time in the space for sound-check. Depending on the complexity of the event, assembling them can add up to an additional 50% of time to the build/strike portion of the gig. The heavy bases also add a burden of wear and tear on both my skeletomuscular system and my Pelican cases. Especially if there’s not a ramp or elevator.
The other comment mentioned in regards to being limited to the Schoeps sound is understandable, but not insurmountable (see attached image using Gefell). I should be able to make a good recording with Schoeps, if it’s all I could get...
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps RC active stands-7e56aae3-4164-47e8-8b26-06276cc92f93.jpg  
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➡️
Also how to add threaded ends to allow mic clips or additional rods to be attached.
I don't ever connect them to any others for extension, that's the point.

I have ordered some more 2mm wall thickness roll wrapped tubes and will glue a short hardwood dowel into the ends where the collett grips to mitigate against crushing.

I only have one 1200 RC tube that I have been using for years but will get a couple more when I can afford it.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
I don't ever connect them to any others for extension, that's the point.

I have ordered some more 2mm wall thickness roll wrapped tubes and will glue a short hardwood dowel into the ends where the collett grips to mitigate against crushing.

I only have one 1200 RC tube that I have been using for years but will get a couple more when I can afford it.
The rod versions would seem to be more robust, since you can't crush a rod by definition.... and the weight difference over a metre is negligible (40 gram tube vs 100 gram rod) There is a way to toughen the outer shell/skin, by painting on epoxy, just like the fishing rod mfrs do. You can also cut a thread (to attach a mic suspension) more easily into a CF rod than a thin walled tube...

In fact, the absence of weight in carbon fibre is part of their problem, since if used as a boom at any significant angle/distance from main pillar, they can tend to tip over, due to centre of gravity shifting out to the mic capsule end...unless you add a counterweight sleeve to the other end.

Mostly we rely on the heavy weighted base to keep centre of gravity within safe limits.
Old 15th January 2020
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Some quite striking similarities with the elegant Sennheiser MKH8000 series mounting hardware also....
Attached Thumbnails
Schoeps RC active stands-1-0.jpg   Schoeps RC active stands-2-0.jpg   Schoeps RC active stands-3-0.jpg   Schoeps RC active stands-3-1.jpg  
Attached Files
Old 15th January 2020 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tourtelot ➡️
I made two nice-looking "thin-stands" for Schoeps colette series with some epoxy glue, some 5/16" carbon fiber tube, a Schoeps colette clip, an Atlas flat mic-stand base and some hardware that I found around the shop from some still photo articulated arms. Looks nice and was super inexpensive to make.

But then, I DO have a lot of free time on my hands.

D.
Hey Doug would you mind posting pix of the ones you made? It seems like that's the only way for me to get to something like RC stands. thx
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