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Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #91
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwanajim ➡️
The N22 would have been a better choice on the vocal. There were quite a few plosives with the N8 that had to be corrected. It was to the point that I was concerned about damage to the mic. N22 has a lot of protection and usually doesn’t need a windscreen. We could have gotten Rachel a lot closer to the mic and picked up less room sound. The N8 is good as an instrument mic, and also works well in pairs for Blumlein mid-side or XY. It doesn’t sound as dull or thin as the N22 with more distant sound sources. You really want things about 6” away with the N22. That’s tough for a guitarist, as they have to worry about the distance. N8 could be pulled back some. I was still learning these mics when we did the recording...
I'm wondering if the AEA N22 and N8 combination described here (N22 for vocal, N8 for guitar) would be a good solution for my particular challenge. I accompany a traditional singer on guitar, and we always record live in a room together. When she sings acapella or if I'm accompanying her on a melody instrument (I play wooden simple-system flute) her pitch is reliably spot-on, but she drifts flat when there's guitar accompaniment and I end up having to do some pitch correction afterward in Melodyne. After years of work it seems this is a cognitive problem, not something that can be resolved by training and practice.

Apart from using a gobo, I've been trying to find the best solution for minimizing bleed while still allowing us to be side-by-side in the same room recording live. I do have a supercardoid that could work for the guitar (Sennheiser MKH 8050) but only cardioids or omnis available for her voice so I need to find a better solution.

What would people choose for this with the mics available in 2020? The AEAs are quite affordable and I wouldn't want to go too much higher in price.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #92
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
I'm wondering if the AEA N22 and N8 combination described here (N22 for vocal, N8 for guitar) would be a good solution for my particular challenge. I accompany a traditional singer on guitar, and we always record live in a room together. When she sings acapella or if I'm accompanying her on a melody instrument (I play wooden simple-system flute) her pitch is reliably spot-on, but she drifts flat when there's guitar accompaniment and I end up having to do some pitch correction afterward in Melodyne. After years of work it seems this is a cognitive problem, not something that can be resolved by training and practice.

Apart from using a gobo, I've been trying to find the best solution for minimizing bleed while still allowing us to be side-by-side in the same room recording live. I do have a supercardoid that could work for the guitar (Sennheiser MKH 8050) but only cardioids or omnis available for her voice so I need to find a better solution.

What would people choose for this with the mics available in 2020? The AEAs are quite affordable and I wouldn't want to go too much higher in price.
i'd change setup from side-by-dide to vis-à-vis and work on the monitoring for the singer (headphones on just one ear, in ears, a drone for pitch etc.)
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #93
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
i'd change setup from side-by-dide to vis-à-vis and work on the monitoring for the singer (headphones on just one ear, in ears, a drone for pitch etc.)
Thanks; we have no need for monitoring as it's just the two of us in a room together. I approach it more like a live field recording; that's more the sound we're after.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #94
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
Thanks; we have no need for monitoring as it's just the two of us in a room together. I approach it more like a live field recording; that's more the sound we're after.
i see... - my suggestion remains though: i'd do whatever helps the performance (and having a drone as a reference for pitch can help to keep intonation) - and if the performance is right, gear and technique become way less important imo.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #95
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah ➡️
if the performance is right, gear and technique become way less important imo.
Amen, and we'll keep working on it (because we also do concerts so we have to solve this problem in that context too).
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #96
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Counterpoint to consider:

First, for context, I acknowledge the many engineers who successfully mic this type of performance. Having said that, for me, figure 8s do not give me what I want.

Taytrix Stack-it’s, while a non-trivial expense, are the best “microphone” investment I ever made.

They are portable, stackable gobos that have a clear panel option for line of sight between artists.

While I know my next suggestion is considered by some to inhibit the best performance, I have to say that the folks I record have adjusted beautifully to individual tracking, love the results and flexibility it affords for recordings.

This is great as my suggestion, to consider single-tracking with gobos, reduces the required number of Taytrix units, allows perfect isolation and with practice, pre-recording of elements and excellent monitoring, inspires each performer to listen more, prepare more and experiment a bit as their session and the setup is optimized for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
I'm wondering if the AEA N22 and N8 combination described here (N22 for vocal, N8 for guitar) would be a good solution for my particular challenge. I accompany a traditional singer on guitar, and we always record live in a room together. When she sings acapella or if I'm accompanying her on a melody instrument (I play wooden simple-system flute) her pitch is reliably spot-on, but she drifts flat when there's guitar accompaniment and I end up having to do some pitch correction afterward in Melodyne. After years of work it seems this is a cognitive problem, not something that can be resolved by training and practice.

Apart from using a gobo, I've been trying to find the best solution for minimizing bleed while still allowing us to be side-by-side in the same room recording live. I do have a supercardoid that could work for the guitar (Sennheiser MKH 8050) but only cardioids or omnis available for her voice so I need to find a better solution.

What would people choose for this with the mics available in 2020? The AEAs are quite affordable and I wouldn't want to go too much higher in price.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLMorgan ➡️
While I know my next suggestion isn’t always considered to achieve the best performance, I have to say that the folks I record have adjusted beautifully to individual tracking, love the results and flexibility it affords for recordings.
Thanks, we recorded our first album this way at a friend's studio some years back. We can easily go that route and have experience with it, but since we're doing traditional music we're both more attracted to doing live recordings, warts and all (although noticeable pitch drift is a wart I have trouble leaving completely uncorrected).

Most of what we listen to is old field recordings of traditional musicians recorded in pubs or in their homes, and while we're not at all aiming for nostalgia or a low-fi sound we are trying to capture our live performances as they are. We are a duo, and I provide only minimalist accompaniment. Our music is a mostly non-commercial endeavor; we occupy a limited-popularity niche within a niche genre. A big concert for us is 750 people; 35-50 is more normal and album sales are in the tens per year rather than hundreds. We are happy with that. We're starting to work on another album and would like it to be more reflective of our live performances in concert.
Old 13th May 2020 | Show parent
  #98
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh ➡️
Most of what we listen to is old field recordings of traditional musicians recorded in pubs or in their homes, and while we're not at all aiming for nostalgia or a low-fi sound we are trying to capture our live performances as they are. We are a duo, and I provide only minimalist accompaniment.
I think the c700s would be an incredible mic for what you do! Gorgeous tone, sounds fantastic on everything, and you can control so much of the sound in post. From analog MS to any number of binaural / virtual mic decodings (including virtual spot mics) using ambisonics, you can do a lot with this single mic. There are a few "one mic" videos using the c700s you can check out too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOYU_7Mnf18
Old 14th May 2020 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Brad,
Where are you doing these recordings?
Old 15th May 2020 | Show parent
  #100
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler ➡️
Hey Brad,
Where are you doing these recordings?
In our living room, which contrary to most “good sounding” living rooms actually does sound pretty good and is not so small. Still it’s not optimal. For now I have settled on putting her vocal mic into my Aston Halo (essentially a portable vocal booth, which I use for recording voiceovers) and I will play facing her at a distance, which should minimize the guitar bleed into her vocal mic (Gefell M930) and vocal bleed into my guitar mic. More of a studio-type sound but probably the best solution using equipment I already have.
Old 15th May 2020 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Where?

Ok, living room!
But in what state are ya located?
Old 16th May 2020 | Show parent
  #102
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobtwiddler ➡️
Ok, living room!
But in what state are ya located?
A state of confusion.

Actually we are in Québec.
Old 16th May 2020 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
nobtwiddler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Haha...

"A state of confusion.

Actually we are in Québec."

One of my all time favorite places, and if it wasn't so cold there for so long, I'd move up there!
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