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Nagra VI Annuversary Edition
Old 5th February 2018
  #1
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🎧 10 years
Nagra VI Anniversary Edition

It’s my understanding anniversary edition anagrams cannot be purchased any longer from Nagra (ATS - you know). Yet, I see them available on websites.

I heard only 60 were made and that’s it. Did they all sell? Any options to get the aluminum front plate? I understand from another thread know because of the button shafts being different sizes. I could live with alternative buttons also, but I like the bright aluminum look and about to order.

What’s the reality of the situation?

Thanks.

Last edited by supoUSA; 6th February 2018 at 04:08 AM..
Old 5th February 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Which are exactly the differences between the regular and anniversary edition?

Referring to the front plate of the special edition, somehwere in this topic
NAGRA VI is now 8-channels!
it's mentioned that it won't be made available as upgrade part, which seems logical.
That said you can still have it 3D scanned and machined though the finish with selective anodizing or engraving is also expensive.

I was always sort of surprised that sheet metal is used for panels, I'd have expected aluminium diecast or machined parts like for some high-end test and measurement (or military) equipment (example of a legacy Wandel & Goltermann device: https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/...easurement.jpg or a Rohde & Schwarz radio (they're rather known for T&M): R&S(R)MR300xH/U Advanced Multiband Tactical Radios | Overview | Rohde & Schwarz).


Edited:
Sort of disappointed as the regular edition front panel is made of plastic...
Old 5th February 2018 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoeller ➡️
. . . Which are exactly the differences between the regular and anniversary edition? . . .
None. They sound the same.
Old 5th February 2018
  #4
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
It's clear that Nagra chose lightweight panels to save weight. The machine already has a substantial weight so anything saved is welcome.

As for the people looking to buy an anniversary model, I have no idea if they are still available or not.

If in USA, call Remote Audio in Nashville. Otherwise, call ATS and speak to Matthieu Latour to check availability.

The difference between the two machines is the look of the machine.

Plastic front is super cool. Recently saw a blue one and it was very handsome. I have the red one and I dig it.
Old 5th February 2018
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
First, I know how to spell Anniversary. The I is next to the u on the keyboard. I am currently working with Steve George. Is the person and company you recommended the same place or different? I don’t want to muddy the waters.

In the event I have money and don’t know what to do with it...someone recommended that the plastic could be recreated? With the labeling? Would that be more expensive than what Nagra actually upgraded the price to?
Old 5th February 2018
  #6
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5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Yes, Steve George is the person you want to talk to.

I'm sorry, but I do not understand the rest of your question. Are you asking if the plastic colored front panel could be re-made to look like the Anniversary front panel?

The other cool thing about the Anniversary model is the stenciling on the top face of the machine showing the circuit diagram and Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Old 5th February 2018
  #7
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🎧 10 years
I actually like plain top but....everyone is different.
Old 5th February 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Coming from industry domains where everything which is not built like a tank gets sooner or later damaged I focus on very robust equipment but of course there is a price to pay: weight. Also it's sort of personal, I don't like plastics, wherever reasonably possible I prefer metal parts. I only use metal toolboxes and metal cases for heavy duty plant floor use and I can only attest that plastic toolboxes and Samsonite-like cases would have died a long time ago. Many cases I use look battered but still do their job (from Edak STANEX to steel cases like the old Sortimo but much more robust).

Back on-topic:

The four rotary buttons could certainly easily be replaced by some stylish ones machined in aluminiun and anodized (common Nagra style, the anniversary edition buttons seem to simply feature a radial set screw, hopefully a inhex ("Allen") one).

The front panel is a more complicated part but to really know a picture of the rear side would be required. The front side can easily be CNC machined, it depends more on details of the rear side. The display window isn't much an issue most similar windows are glued or mounted from the rear with a frame (don't know how Nagra did it), typically polycarbonate is used. Anti-reflection coated mineral glass would be better but it requires sufficient thickness so I don't expect it to be an retrofit option.

The anniversary edition aluminium front panel is not a 1:1 copy of the plastic panel, it's a simplified version with a flat front. The three small protective collars and the marker dots around the headphone level pot are not present (more exactly those marks are machined inward as small dents). The machining traces show that the aluminium front panel is CNC machined and not diecast, which seems obvious for a series of around 60 pieces only. Dieacast tooling would be way too expensive for such small quantities.
(Those milling traces are inavoidable, even if the precision is very high such traces remainn visible, they can only removed by other methods, for example by hand.)

The markings are relatively large so CNC engraving with color filling would be fine (though I'd make the marking segments around the main rotary switch somewhat narrower to prevent damages to the color filling). Another elegant option would be to anodize in black or some other dark color and CNC engrave in which case no color filling is required. As all engraving is in a single geometrical plane it's not expensive,

I can't see if the anniversary edition front plate is silkscreen printed (serigraphy) or selectively anodized. The latter is way better but also more expensive. Hopefully it's not tampon-printed (I don't expect that). The markings of the original plastic front plate don't seem highly wear resistant.

Overall I'd say that such front panel can be CNC machined without problems though as mentioned it would be required to see the rear side. Also it's said that some other mechanical details like potentiometer axis could be different. But unless the rear side is really odd I don't see why there should be problems making an aluminium panel to replace the plastic panel.
Also plastic may require some special measures to meet shielding requirements. Overall I'm still surprised that the regular series front is not made of aluminium especially as tooling costs for the plastic front have been quite high but OTOH like Plush mentioned it above, weight is important.
Old 5th February 2018
  #9
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🎧 10 years
This is good info. Where and how much and who? Could something be done with the front plate since it is already there?
Old 5th February 2018 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoeller ➡️
The four rotary buttons could certainly easily be replaced by some stylish ones machined in aluminiun and anodized (common Nagra style, the anniversary edition buttons seem to simply feature a radial set screw, hopefully a inhex ("Allen") one).
The only difference worth worrying about IMHO. The ergonomic improvement of the chicken head knobs so you can detect the angular displacement in the dark is significant.

But it is not cost effective. They sound the same and that's all that matters.
Old 6th February 2018 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➡️
The only difference worth worrying about IMHO. The ergonomic improvement of the chicken head knobs so you can detect the angular displacement in the dark is significant.
The regular plastic knobs can probably be replaced by some commercially available models featuring a small arrow pointer at the base of the knob. If the space around the know is wide enough a finger can be used to "feel" blindly the position of the arrow. Another option would be some commercially available assymetric plastic knobs but finding a nice looking robust one of the right size could be challenging.
Most elegant would be a CNC machined knob like the ones of the anniversary edition. Not a very complex part but to avoid prohibitive unit prices a small series should be manufactured, not just a few, especially as some surface treatment is required (including eloxing). I don't know if somewhat similar metal knobs can be found available off-the-shelf.


Quote:
But it is not cost effective. They sound the same and that's all that matters.
Replacing the front panel by a metal version is a question of personal preference, at least if the existing plastic version is robust enough (mileages vary).

The datasheet weight of the regular version without battery is already 3 kg.
Overall the device looks rather optimized for maintenance-friendliness than for overall size (for some TASCAM it's exactly the opposite). Unfortunately a side-effect of the large case is the increased weight. Also transformers probably add quite some weight compared to fully transformerless input designs.

Et merci à Swing pour ta réponse plus haut. (Thank you for your reply above.)
Old 6th February 2018 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by supoUSA ➡️
This is good info. Where and how much and who?
"It depends."

If you can provide CAD drawings the machining is not that expensive, ideally several identical parts should be ordered at the same time as costs will quickly drop. You mostly pay for the preparation of the machine. The machining time for such part, unless the rear would be very complex which I don't expect, is low and also the required precision is low (referring to common precision machining). With a high-speed (HF direct drive) spindle one side should be machined in a very few minutes (probably less than 5).
Surface preparation and eloxing should also be done, supplier should be carefully chosen as quality can widely vary. CNC engraving is fairly inexpensive but must also be done carefully.
Details about the white part with the tick marks behind the four rotary buttons should be checked


Quote:
Could something be done with the front plate since it is already there?
What do you mean (sorry for asking, I'm not a native English speaker)?
Are you referring to using the regular front plate to take measurements or to modify it?
I wouldn't modify the existing front plate. What could certainly be done is replacing the four rotary plastic buttons as discussed above but the type and material of the pot axis should be checked. If the axis is made of metal it's a change to install metal buttons, it should be checked how the grounding is done (also considering ESD).


BTW I miss some sort of mechanical protection of the sides, especially the CF card ejection button. A recessed design or at least some protection profiles could be useful to protect the XLR release tabs and the 9-pole D-Sub.

The removable handles and the front feet cut in metal sheet are somewhat special (IMO).
Old 6th February 2018
  #13
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Not sure how it works. Would a project request basically involve showing them a Nagra VI plastic version and a pic of a brushed version and ask them to duplicate? Does it involve custom design or can they scan the plastic faceplate and as you pointed out, modify the differences in cad and then machine. I do t know how the printing is done. I’m guessing sublimated but doesn’t look like it’s engraved than colored. As long as it looks authentic and won’t wipe off, I’m up for it. What would the cost be for this one off project do you think? And is the machine shop the key or is there work basically a standard where any company will do? Wish Nagra would just get rid of the plastic and offer an aluminum option. But, they don’t so....Also, wish they would go direct to consumer. Do we really need to go through a reseller? It’s not like people getting this kind of gear gains any value for a reseller. We know what we want, so why give them $2500-$3000 for just sticking it on their website? It’s a waste of our money. This product should be direct order.
Old 6th February 2018
  #14
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Let’s refer to post #13 by SUPOUSA above.

Why doesn’t Supo buy the machine he really wants? Used anniversary models are available.

Grossly misinformed conjecture and proposals offered in this thread. How can I say that and why do I say it? Because I am The Absolute Nagrist.

Audio Technology Switzerland can help you if you like. You just have to pay the asking price. It’s Swiss so it will be high.

They maintain a world-wide network of importers and agents for a reason. They offer country specific support for repairs, loaners machines, parts, advice, new software, and on the ground expertise.

The advice to sell direct comes from a cheapie.
Does Supo propose a direct sale and support on a web site?

Please go to the ATS web site and see all of the countries where Nagra has established sales and service outposts. Real professionals rely on this network.

This whole thread is predicated on a potential customer refusing to buy what he says he wants. Then another poster offers advice on how Supo can cobble together a look-a-like machine.

What will you guys think of next?
Old 6th February 2018
  #15
Lives for gear
 
IIRC only Nagra VI anniversary editions feature an aluminium front plate and the famous chicken-head rotary buttons. AFAIK Nagra does not provide any upgrade path to replace the regular plastic front plate by the aluminium version nor is the aluminium front plate freely sold as spare part (only as replacement of an existing damaged aluminum front plate) which seems sort of normal as it's about a limited jubilee edition (about 60 pieces?).


@ supoUSA: It's much more simple indeed.

I'm not referring to some company redesigning an aluminium front plate and sell it but simply about making CAD design files and from there the part can be manufactured the usual way. As the part is simple, small and not requiring a high precision it can be machined using nearly any CNC machine tool which can accomodate parts of the discussed size. Indeed most CNC can machine larger parts anyway.

Basically there are only two suppliers involved: a CNC machine shop, a [i]very good[/u] surface treatment company like for example Aloxyd which can brush, anodize and print.

A not well known inkjet print process can be used for frontplates (not to be confused with garden variety common inkjet):
Aluminium and glass printing | Aloxyd AG

If using black color a very high UV resistance is achieved. For other colors UV resistance varies but is mostly of concern for panels installed outdoor (there are examples, see the link above).

The discussed inkjet marking process is compatible with any flat part which can be well anodized, it's also very competitive because no tooling is required.

To make the drawings of the part an existing plastic front plate must be measured. The front side is so simple that not even a 3D measurement system is required (like a Faro arm, a Zeiss Contura, or 3D scanner,...).
Indeed it all depends on the complexity of the rear side. The required precision for functional dimentsions is low. Non functional dimensions are not critical at all and can easily be measured even by hand.

Brushing, anodizing and inkjet prinitng would not be that expensive and costs per piece very quickly drop if say 5 or 10 pieces can be made.

Material costs are low, typically pre-machined precision plate material like Haba would be used, this reduces machining costs. Important is to check with the anodizing supplier which exact material can be used as anodizing compatibility widely varies.
Also the type of anodizing should be determined with the supplier (requirements about hardness, esthetics, etc.) and there are couple of details about electrical contact points for the anodizing process to check as it can help lower costs.

To get a first idea, ideally someone should post good pics of all sides of a plastic front plate, especially the rear side and also of the front of the recorder case with front plate removed. Of course even better would be to see if there are differences other than the front plate and buttons between the regular and anniversary edition.

I don't know the costs as it would depend a lot on quantities but it should be around a few hundred CHF/EUR/USD (maybe less than 500) if CAD files are provided (per front plate maybe if 2 or 3 are made and quite less each for maybe 10 pieces).

I don't say that the plastic front plate is good or bad as such, it's only about a possible option to replace it by an aluminium front plate.

And BTW, how about a metal handles instead of the removable plastic handles (Nagra Part # 01.32050.026)? Not looking simiar, rather some plate with maybe a slot for a strap.


Edited:
Audio Technology Switzerland can't go direct, you require support and a local network.

That said, if we take SD as example, in Switzerland there's one official distributor (which seems to dictate its prices as I saw the same end-user prices everywhere I checked them online) but sadly in real life it's still difficult to find a reseller who knows the product and can let you have a look at it in the store. I don't mind paying a somewhat higher price if I've a competent dealer. Sadly SD products are not well represented in Switzerland, if they were I'd have requested a MixPre-3 instead of something else and someone I know can't find some VideoDevices video assist here (don't know which model but the audio company importing SD doesn't even mention VD video assist products though featuring some VD video recorder, Sound Devices (SD) and Video Devices (VD) are basically the same manufacturer).
So overall if I can't get the local pre-sales support I'd like I would finally prefer ordering directly from the US.
Paying higher prices, suffering longer shipping delays and no support? No longer an option since we got Internet.
Old 6th February 2018
  #16
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I so appreciate it. I will seek out a company that can replicate this. I've burned X amount of dollars already, might as well.
Old 9th February 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 
I wish you all the best.

Hopefully you can rely on knowledgeable specialists as for such project you can't simply define specs quantitatively, i.e. having someone just providing precise enough production drawings (normally based on a 3D model).
In this case esthetics play a very important role and you can't just specify machining tolerances (suboptimal machining will impact negatively the result even if the drawings tolerances are stricly respected). Also the surface treatment and markings must be done very carefully by suppliers who are used to provide very high quality work. If not you'll end with some sub-par not very nice looking front plate even if machined precisely enough.
There are certainly various companies in your country (I suppose the USA) who can do it, just make sure that your choice is a good one (can't help you as I don't know them as I'm not in the USA).

IMO several pieces should be ordered as the unit price will quickly drop but of course no mistake is allowed. A 3D printed verification model doesn't make much sense but if you feel unsure you can have one done, especially if the rear side is complicated.
A couple of details can't be assessed without knowing how the rear side looks and how the front plate is mounted, etc. so currently I can't even say for sure if it's worth trying or not.
Old 9th February 2018
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Basically, because shops don't want problems - they will either say "yes we can accomplish this, here is how" or "no...and here is why". It's not a must have. If it can be done, great. If not, don't really care that much - but - I'll check it out and let you know.
Old 10th February 2018
  #19
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Smile

Having the aluminium front panel on the Nagra VI added £ 1,000 to the price and Nagra told me that the increase all went into the extra production costs and they made no more profit on the Anniversary edition than they did for the standard edition.

Mine is the red one.

I had a special flight case made for mine and Case Design (in High Wycombe, UK) have made several others to my desihn and sold to Nagra VI users in the USA and Europe as well as in the UK (I don't get anything from this - they designed it with me for my Nagra and then made more of them as others liked the design).

I designed it so there the machine could be stored with battery on or off - on for short periods when used a lot, or off when it's in the cupboard for several weeks/months.

I posted the pictures of the case in the Nagra VI firmware thread HERE
Old 10th February 2018
  #20
Lives for gear
 
As I mentioned it, the cost of the aluminium front plate depends on a lot of factors, the mentioned price possibly includes all costs while I was only referring to 3rd party manufacturing costs. Considering the very high Swiss wages, the time spent to prepare the design, request offers, etc. quickly costs a lot. I know as I live in Switzerland and have been involved in various non-audio designs.
Also possibly the inkjet process I mention is less expensive as the marking process used for the original anniversary front plate. Further, as said, costs can widely vary depending on suppliers and sometimes even if the supplier is more or less interested in your possible order. If delays are very long some suppliers also increase prices while others lower prices if there's some free production capacity.
Further there are the CNC machined "chicken head" aluminium buttons, you must design the part, make a prototype (possibly 3D-printed, not necessarily SLS or machined) to check the ergonomy, etc.

What you mention about custom designs is very common. Unless you typically participate to tooling costs (not the case here, mostly referring to extrusion, injection etc.) and request some exclusivity you typically pay the development for others. There can't be done anything against that, maybe the manufacturer could offer you some rebate or so.
Old 6th March 2018
  #21
Here for the gear
I just want to let you know that we just finish some new Nagra VI anniversary. It is in stock now you can contact me René in America or Matthieu in Europe. Contact information on Nagraaudio-HD.
Old 6th March 2018 | Show parent
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renefidelionagra ➡️
I just want to let you know that we just finish some new Nagra VI anniversary. It is in stock now you can contact me René in America or Matthieu in Europe. Contact information on Nagraaudio-HD.
Is the often mentioned overall total number of 60 Nagra VI Anniversary Edition units made available worldwide still valid?
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #23
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🎧 10 years
I know this is an old thread, but I’m selling my Anniversary VI
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I am selling a red Nagra 6.
Contact me at tel (773) 551-3529
[email protected]

I'm in Chicago.
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