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Why does my mix lose punch when THIS happens...
Old 15th March 2014
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A simple null test would settle this.

Duplicate a track.

Invert phase on the first copy.

On the second, insert gain plugin +35 dB, followed by another gain plugin -35 dB to return back to original level.

If you hear silence, the test is null and no clipping is going down.



Proper gain staging is still important though. Coming in hot, you can always raise the threshold on a run-of-the-mill compressor, but other plugins with a lot of behind the scenes voodoo behave very differently depending on how hot you come in at them. Waves GTR for example, come in hotter than -10 dB and the plug is pretty much useless.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by con_thafam ➡️
@bgrotto
Hey bud, I don't know if you realize it or not, but you do come off a little hostile and aggressive in some of your posts. The information is flawless, but the attitude is a little unnecessary. Obviously, I could be wrong, and that might not be your intention at all. Anyways. Good debate overall.
I'm just a matter-of-fact kinda guy. Might read as hostile online, but the reality is I just can't be bothered to take the time to sugarcoat stuff, or hold someone's hand for fear of hurting their feelings, because I assume I'm talking to thick-skinned adults who can handle it.

Anywho, my intent is not to pick a fight, so my apologies there.
Old 15th March 2014
  #63
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Well, it's not really about what we can "handle". It's more about what courtesy and respect we all appreciate and deserve. It is a social forum after all. Social skills should still apply, but obviously never above audio skills. Lol

I appreciate the apology by the way.

You seem like you know a lot, so let me ask you. What's your opinion/take on 32 bit audio?
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #64
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by con_thafam ➡️
Well, it's not really about what we can "handle". It's more about what courtesy and respect we all appreciate and deserve. It is a social forum after all. Social skills should still apply, but obviously never above audio skills. Lol

I appreciate the apology by the way.

You seem like you know a lot, so let me ask you. What's your opinion/take on 32 bit audio?
I actually just tried it out for the first time last weekend. I was playing drums, though, not engineering. Tracks sounded good, but it coulda been the studio's Burl converters…

Anywho, the fellow recording us said he noticed an improvement in depth and space, and he's a dude whose opinion I hold in very high regard. I'll be doing some overdubs in the coming weeks on the material, so maybe I'll get a better sense of the difference then.
Old 15th March 2014
  #65
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
No offense taken and i dont disagree with anything said, i just wish more care went into maintaining the gain stage is all.
Old 15th March 2014
  #66
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I did my own null tests at one point that showed the noise floor for 32-bit was about 18dB less than 24-bit, but I've never seen anyone say anything about the noise floor (is it even the noise floor? rounding errors?) being less so I always figured my method was probably flawed. I rendered a sine wave to 4 separate files:

[A] 24-bit
[B] 24-bit +10dB
[C] 32-bit
[D] 32-bit +10dB

Then I ran a null test of [A] against [B -10dB], and [C] against [D -10dB]. Heard silence in both but frequency analyzer showed the noise floor crossing 20kHz @ -170dB for 32-bit, and -152dB for 24-bit. Is that even a problem? I don't know. We talk about how much we love analog noise, analog summing plugins are increasing in popularity, and we add dither at the end anyway which is higher than this extra noise. But I also ran the test with 16-bit and to no surprise it crossed 20kHz much higher than the other two formats. I have no idea what it means but on top of the clipping prevention, I use 32-bit without question.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by anstahc ➡️
-152dB for 24-bit
That's odd...24 bit audio only has a dynamic range of about 144db. Huh. Wonder what the deal is.
Old 15th March 2014
  #68
RTR
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RTR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you pull down ALL the faders except the master, that should still equal out, shouldn't it?I mean, if he pulled them all down except the AUX. buses it would matter, but pulling them all down should still keep the balance, just lower in volume...right?
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #69
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LeoLeoLeo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Edit: read wrong.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTR ➡️
If you pull down ALL the faders except the master, that should still equal out, shouldn't it?I mean, if he pulled them all down except the AUX. buses it would matter, but pulling them all down should still keep the balance, just lower in volume...right?
This has been discussed elsewhere in the thread, but the short answer is: no. It depends on the particular routing being used.
Old 15th March 2014 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by con_thafam ➡️
@bgrotto
Hey bud, I don't know if you realize it or not, but you do come off a little hostile and aggressive in some of your posts. The information is flawless, but the attitude is a little unnecessary. Obviously, I could be wrong, and that might not be your intention at all. Anyways. Good debate overall.

Honestly I actually got quite the opposite from Grotto's post. I didn't get the impression that he was being aggressive nor hostile at all. The language he speaks actually works for me because he gives his views in a very matter of fact way. Interesting that you picked that up though.


As for the master bus fader level... I didn't realize it would be this type of debate lol But as I mentioned before I don't believe that I necessarily mix things in the "ideal" way, but I mix more for vibe and soul FIRST than for pure technical sonics. Whatever path that leads me down is the path I take.

Perhaps in the process of that, I end up pushing things a little "hot" on certain tracks due to the build up of grouping and parallel processing. But again, none of my plug-in clip, and none of my individual channels are actually clipping. So I've always been curious about why I end up having to turn my master fader down a bit. All that said, reading this thread I can definitely see where I need to change some of my mixing habits.
Old 12th November 2015
  #72
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
You mix madmen find this article answers it quite nicely about the way that the master fader works in ProTools, which in essence is saying ride the master and don't worry about it - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun1...es/pt_0610.htm. It goes into all the detail that you need for describing the master fader in a DAW.
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