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SP303/404/ or EPS16+
Old 2nd March 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
SP303/404/ or EPS16+

I currently own this setup

SP12(midi out)
To
Akai s950(midi in)

MPC2000(midi out)
To
Ensoniq EPS16+(midi in)

Im a Hip-Hop producer, mad in Love with the Lo-Fi, lower bit type of crunchy griddy feel. Im learning the Akai s950 right now, but do not know much at all of the Ensoniq EPS 16+. I was going to learn it after the950, but I just had a friend offer to trade HIS SP 404 for my Ensoniq..

I understand the EPS has the most memory time to sample with from my current setup, but Im already used to my 5 second limitation from my SP12 that long sample time isnt needed for me. Creati ity with shorter time is always dope. Im just crazy about pads, I LOVE pads, and playing my samples like that.

The 404 would be the slave to my MPC2000 if this trade happens. PLUS I really like the Portable feature for Live performances at shows or on the streets.

PROS/CONS please!

JaytheRumor
Old 2nd March 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Vanilla_Dutches's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
EPS 16+

Pros:

DOPEEEEE FX
Variable bit rate (can sound dirty or clean....but def not as dirty as a Boss SP)
Simple to chop when you learn how to do it
It really sounds good...it just sounds good

Cons

Storage (floppy or SCSI for zip drive...there are other options however)
Sample time - IIRC it's like 56 seconds with maxed out mem
Only samples in mono
footprint (ot's huge by todays standards)


Before I continue... are you being offered a 404sx?? I would make that trade for a 404sx ONLY... If it's a standard 404, no way in hell.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #3
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Nah, the offer is the 404 (NOT SX). Even tho I have mad combos as far as production goes right now, I still want a 404sx as far as portability for sampling anywhere, to Live performances. I dont think I could get rid of the 16+ now. I just havnt started to learn it yet, I'm learning my s950 first so I can combo up the s950 and SP12
Old 2nd March 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
To my knowledge, the ASR 10 and EPS 16+ are extremely similar. I thought the ASR 10 was fairly challenging to learn but it was worth the effort. A lot of things make sense on why it works the way it works but it can be hard to wrap your head around at first (not to say they couldn't make the machine a bit easier to learn however). I would at least learn how to use the EPS 16+ before you part with it. To me, it really changed how I sampled certain things. For example, you can chop a break up into say 4 pieces, then also have all the individual drums, and then keep the original break as well, without using any more sample time than it would take for the break. It's kind of like the opposite of limited sample time, it can push your creativity because once you have it recorded, you can use that time as many ways as you want without eating up more sample time. I often don't set my end points, for example, on melodic samples which can make for a lot of variation without having to think about it before hand.

I also think it's great to have one cleaner sampler, honestly my ASR 10 is the dirtiest sampler I own right now, but it's far from lo fi, I just think it's really warm and big sounding.

I don't know, I just think it's a great workflow once you wrap your head around it. Just remember that it doesn't do anything like Akai samplers do so it may take some time to get it down. There are many more resources now than when I first got my ASR 10 as well.
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree ➑️
To my knowledge, the ASR 10 and EPS 16+ are extremely similar. I thought the ASR 10 was fairly challenging to learn but it was worth the effort. A lot of things make sense on why it works the way it works but it can be hard to wrap your head around at first (not to say they couldn't make the machine a bit easier to learn however). I would at least learn how to use the EPS 16+ before you part with it. To me, it really changed how I sampled certain things. For example, you can chop a break up into say 4 pieces, then also have all the individual drums, and then keep the original break as well, without using any more sample time than it would take for the break. It's kind of like the opposite of limited sample time, it can push your creativity because once you have it recorded, you can use that time as many ways as you want without eating up more sample time. I often don't set my end points, for example, on melodic samples which can make for a lot of variation without having to think about it before hand.

I also think it's great to have one cleaner sampler, honestly my ASR 10 is the dirtiest sampler I own right now, but it's far from lo fi, I just think it's really warm and big sounding.

I don't know, I just think it's a great workflow once you wrap your head around it. Just remember that it doesn't do anything like Akai samplers do so it may take some time to get it down. There are many more resources now than when I first got my ASR 10 as well.
Big thanks for this one my man. Looking like the 404sx will be an add on rather than a trade then. Indeed I will learn this first before any moves are made. I know my s950 has a REVERSE option to play the sample back in reverse, I was woundering if maybe the EPS16 had that option as well? I know the 404 does
Old 2nd March 2014 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaytheRumor ➑️
Big thanks for this one my man. Looking like the 404sx will be an add on rather than a trade then. Indeed I will learn this first before any moves are made. I know my s950 has a REVERSE option to play the sample back in reverse, I was woundering if maybe the EPS16 had that option as well? I know the 404 does
The ASR 10 does, not sure on the EPS 16+. On the ASR 10, it's Edit>Wave then go to Mode-Backwards No Loop.
Old 2nd March 2014
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Vanilla_Dutches's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
EPS-16 has the reverse feature as well. The menus are similar. I never owned an ASR-10 but played with one planty of times. The big differences between them ASR and EPS16 are the ASR only has a 30khz and 44.1khz SR but it's stereo and has much more sampling time. I think the ASR also has a few more FX because of the stereo capabilities. But overall the same fx engine.

All of the SP's have the reverse sample feature. If you are looking to add a lo-fi sampler to your mix. I'd add the 303. If you really need the portability the 404sx is the way to go because of it's storage (32gb SD card). And the 404sx has a slightly extended FX engine with a few more FX that the 505/303 don't have like the DJ Looper and Subsonic. (If you really want to a gutter box get the 202 as well, you can find them pretty cheap)

I'd add it instead of trading it.

I had an EPS-16+ for a long time and it's probably the only hardware sampler I really miss (I have my SP's still)..I'd keep it, it's a dope sounding sampler and has dope FX (get the waveboy disks too, trust me)
Old 2nd March 2014
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
i have limited experience with the EPS-16 but the SPs are mostly useful as FX/flavor units as opposed to full song creation IMO. lot's of people can freak them like that (see sp-forums.com) but i can't, very limited sequencing. also make sure you check the midi specs they aren't too powerful as i see you want to use it with the MPC.
Old 3rd March 2014
  #9
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Thanks yall, Imma keep this bad boy. But add on a SP404sx once I learn the EPS16+ ....... Now onto my Mic/Vocal setup
Old 4th March 2014
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
new here but felt i needed to add my 2 cents as my current setup is MPC 2000 and EPS 16+.
Do not trade your EPS, it is an awesome machine, its capabilities are endless and the only restrictions you have are RAM, but the EPS is setup to maximise the RAM in very efficient ways and storage medium. I know you said you wouldnt but dont change your mind.Download a copy of the manual and read thru that badboy, great manual, very thorough.Oh yah and be wary cuz theres lots of info on this machine out there thats only half true. Anyways good luck
Old 4th March 2014
  #11
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Keep and learn the EPS 16. I went thru lots of gear and only have an ASR10 and MPC4000 now. Although I only use Maschine now, learning the EPS built a solid foundation that allowed me to basically learn anything and pick it up. The main reason to keep the EPS is the sound, not only does it make samples sound great, but if you have any of the Ensoniq libraries, the sounds are amazing.

I am only using Maschine now but when I get more room I hope to setup my ASR10 again and use those great sounds I had.
Old 4th March 2014
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
For those sequencing a sampler from an MPC ( I presume there are a few of you in this thread ??) what did you find good and bad about this workflow ? I have an ASR-10 but have the opportunity to cop an old MPC 2000 at a nice price. I am really familiar with work flow of the MPC 2000 and can'r help but wonder if it'd be a good addition to my set up. ..but also wonder if it may hinder my workflow ??
Old 4th March 2014
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
well for me was a no brainer. Had the MP first, great machine but limited as far as its sound and its actual sampling(editing,synthesis,modulation) capabilities. Got a good deal on the eps 16 which has great sound and solid sampling capabilities. But the eps is limited as far as RAM goes(albeit the machine uses its ram far better than the MP, but im sure u kno that as an ASR user.)
As far as my opinion on the potential impact on ure workflow, i doubt that it would vary much from ure own. I dont have much experience with ASR s but from what I heard their sequencers can be finicky, MPC sequencers are rock solid.
If I were to do it over, i would have got a 2000 xl instead, cf card reader mod is cheap for the XL whereas on the 2000 u have to go external unless ure really tech savy(and even then im not sure).MP scsi implementation is flexible whereas the eps 16 is not, not sure bout the ASR(im sure u kno this already.)
I dont kno really, I mean unless u r having issues with the ASR sequencer why sink money into the MP, it cant really do anything that the ASR cannot, except provide pads, even the xtra RAM u could potientially have access to (by resampling sequenced loops into the MP to free up space on the ASR) I mean if ure not using up all the RAM for a beat now who cares. Maybe u should spend the money on a sampler with some character and features that u wont get from the ASR, such as an older EMU.
Whether or not the ASR will function well as the MIDI hub for multiple samplers I dont kno, but im sure ure computer could handle it if it doesnt.
Would the MP work well as a MIDI sequencer hub, most def.

Anyways i may or may not have answered your question, but i was posting as well for others that may be asking the same question related to different gear.Just my thoughts on the matter related to my experience, some of what i said may not be 100% accurate but it is my experience.
Old 4th March 2014
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
to answer ure post more specifically id say without knowing how much "cheap" its tough to say if its worth it. IMHO if its more than 200 bucks its not worth it. If it doesnt have 8 outs,not worth it at any price,(for the price of the outs u can find a good old school sampler.)note for other readers:this is taking into consideration that he already has an ASR. A couple weeks ago i missed out by a day and access to a car, a maxed out emu E6400 Turbo with hard drive and cd rom reader for 200 bucks canadian. I am currently waiting to hear about a yamaha a3000 maxed out with zip drive and cd rom reader and expansion board for 140 canadian.
Both those samplers kill the MPC 2000 when it comes to sampling.

Will it impact your workflow, id say if u are not experienced with MIDI, yes to have that type of setup will slow u down until you learn it. But the benefits of learning your way around a MIDI chain will far outweigh the sacrifice in learning time.

Hope that helps, sorry if i sounded condescending in any way.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-I-Addict ➑️
For those sequencing a sampler from an MPC ( I presume there are a few of you in this thread ??) what did you find good and bad about this workflow ? I have an ASR-10 but have the opportunity to cop an old MPC 2000 at a nice price. I am really familiar with work flow of the MPC 2000 and can'r help but wonder if it'd be a good addition to my set up. ..but also wonder if it may hinder my workflow ??
That's how Yeezy does it.
Old 4th March 2014 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
3rd Degree's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-I-Addict ➑️
For those sequencing a sampler from an MPC ( I presume there are a few of you in this thread ??) what did you find good and bad about this workflow ? I have an ASR-10 but have the opportunity to cop an old MPC 2000 at a nice price. I am really familiar with work flow of the MPC 2000 and can'r help but wonder if it'd be a good addition to my set up. ..but also wonder if it may hinder my workflow ??
A lot of people say they go well together. It makes sense because the ASR 10 is a really great sampler but has a so so sequencer, limited MIDI I/O, and lack of swing. On the flip side, the MPC has a more basic sampler, but a really great sequencer and good MIDI implementation, both on the hardware and software side, and more tracks.

For me, I just don't like the combo for whatever reason. I think most of it is I tend to mess with the sample a lot more than drums or bass so it was a constant back and forth. I don't love the ASR 10 sequencer but it definitely doesn't bug me so that wasn't an issue. Swing is nice to have but sometimes it's also nice to not have swing as well. On a few occasions, however, I would do all my sequencing on the ASR 10, then go back and redo the drums on the MPC.

That said, I did use an Akai sampler with my ASR 10. I used an S2000 which I felt blended well with the sound of the ASR 10 (same sound as the 2000/2000xl). I guess it would be the same thing as sequencing an MPC off an ASR 10 which some would consider "backwards". Once nice thing about doing it that way is you can just load a ton of drums on to another sampler and since the ASR 10 has 61 keys, it's easy to access those sounds really easily. Unlike the MPC, the S2000 assigns things chromatically by default.
Old 4th March 2014
  #17
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr4track ➑️
to answer ure post more specifically id say without knowing how much "cheap" its tough to say if its worth it. IMHO if its more than 200 bucks its not worth it. If it doesnt have 8 outs,not worth it at any price,(for the price of the outs u can find a good old school sampler.)note for other readers:this is taking into consideration that he already has an ASR. A couple weeks ago i missed out by a day and access to a car, a maxed out emu E6400 Turbo with hard drive and cd rom reader for 200 bucks canadian. I am currently waiting to hear about a yamaha a3000 maxed out with zip drive and cd rom reader and expansion board for 140 canadian.
Both those samplers kill the MPC 2000 when it comes to sampling.

Will it impact your workflow, id say if u are not experienced with MIDI, yes to have that type of setup will slow u down until you learn it. But the benefits of learning your way around a MIDI chain will far outweigh the sacrifice in learning time.

Hope that helps, sorry if i sounded condescending in any way.
Yeah it is less than $200 and has the 8 outs. Because I feel really familiar with the MPC a part of me feels like I want to part with the ASR-10 and just use the MPC .With the money from the ASR 10 I'd get myself a midi keyboard so as to still have a keyboard device floating about to play software instruments when needed.
Old 4th March 2014
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
well if it was me i d never do that, the mpc as a sampler is not good, but i guess it depends what u r using it for. ASR is a much better piece IMO.
Old 4th March 2014
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I can chop samples 5 times as fast on my eps and not worry bout eating up the ram, have "real fiilters" so much more modulation for the samples available. Not too mention nice lo fi sound for drums. I really dont understand why one would trade an asr for an mp, i mean unless it was a 4000 or 5000 and even then.If I were you i d keep both, for me the workflow is amazing.
Old 4th March 2014
  #20
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
EPS16+ and an SP303 can both supply lo-fi goodness!

I've owned and used mpc's, sp1200, asr10, eps16, and roland sp 202, 303,404's,555.

I've kept the roland sp's cause I like the simplicity and I can vibe with the work flow of resampling. You should check out the roland 555 also. Those FX are mad fun and you can get real crunchy sounds out of it.

sp202 example


sp303 example


sp555 example
Old 4th March 2014
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
^ya i keep a 505 around cuz it's fun, easy, sound good for lo-fi. i'm gonna probably sell it and get 303 cuz 303 sounds a little better IMO
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr4track ➑️
new here but felt i needed to add my 2 cents as my current setup is MPC 2000 and EPS 16+.
Do not trade your EPS, it is an awesome machine, its capabilities are endless and the only restrictions you have are RAM, but the EPS is setup to maximise the RAM in very efficient ways and storage medium. I know you said you wouldnt but dont change your mind.Download a copy of the manual and read thru that badboy, great manual, very thorough.Oh yah and be wary cuz theres lots of info on this machine out there thats only half true. Anyways good luck
Thanks homie! Yeah I started reading the manual while I had it hooked up but Im learning my s950 first, then moving on to this EPS sampler.
Old 6th March 2014 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobster ➑️
EPS16+ and an SP303 can both supply lo-fi goodness!

I've owned and used mpc's, sp1200, asr10, eps16, and roland sp 202, 303,404's,555.

I've kept the roland sp's cause I like the simplicity and I can vibe with the work flow of resampling. You should check out the roland 555 also. Those FX are mad fun and you can get real crunchy sounds out of it.

sp202 example


sp303 example


sp555 example
Dope info! Im thinking the 303
Old 7th March 2014
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I love the EPS 16+ sound. I picked up a cheap ASR 10 rack but it needs a little work, I'd say say keep the Ensoniq. As mentioned before, the floppy disk storage is really a pain sometimes. I've gotten a Zip disk drive to work with the ASR but not the EPS and I've been looking into getting a nice floppy emulator for it. If anyone has personal experience with an emulator that worked well, I'd appreciate it if you could offer me some advice on a manufacturer and model.
Old 9th March 2014
  #25
SEED78
Guest
don't even THINK about swapping your EPS for a 404 - its swapping a pro grade sampler for a pro-sumer sampler - the 303/404 etc etc samplers have some unique characters but so do ALL samplers, if Doom and Lib etc hadn't used these samplers none would even care about them.

If anything I'd midi the EPS and the S950 from the MPC, sell the SP12 and buy some fx or preamp that can help you record what you have with more tones etc.

with the EPS and the S950 and the MPC2000 already covering a lot of ground I'd question what other samplers are really giving you.

I own a MPC3000, S950, ASR10, and Casio RZ1 - I've considered getting a Emax rack or a Roland S-550, or a Zoom SampleTrak but decided to concentrate on preamps and compressors instead, better to have a more complete studio than just a ton of samplers, for me at any rate.
Old 9th March 2014
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
my 303 and 404 definately add some extra independant finished 'body' to the recordings.the sx might be to clean.........its all about character.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➑️
my 303 and 404 definately add some extra independant finished 'body' to the recordings.the sx might be to clean.........its all about character.
Is the sx a different bit rate than the 404?
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Nut
 
JaytheRumor's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEED78 ➑️
don't even THINK about swapping your EPS for a 404 - its swapping a pro grade sampler for a pro-sumer sampler - the 303/404 etc etc samplers have some unique characters but so do ALL samplers, if Doom and Lib etc hadn't used these samplers none would even care about them.

If anything I'd midi the EPS and the S950 from the MPC, sell the SP12 and buy some fx or preamp that can help you record what you have with more tones etc.

with the EPS and the S950 and the MPC2000 already covering a lot of ground I'd question what other samplers are really giving you.

I own a MPC3000, S950, ASR10, and Casio RZ1 - I've considered getting a Emax rack or a Roland S-550, or a Zoom SampleTrak but decided to concentrate on preamps and compressors instead, better to have a more complete studio than just a ton of samplers, for me at any rate.
Between my MPC2000 and SP12, I have to favor my SP-12. Although it does have 5 less seconds to sample in, my main aim with the SP12 is for my Drums. I got lots of sample time with my EPS16+ & s950. I Love, Love, LOVE the tune/decay on the 12, plus the 12 bit sound is where its at for me. With both of the samplers set up I can try to some pretty dope mixes, as in the case of a DJ with two tables. Or if anything were to happen with any of these old pieces, I got some pretty good back up I'd say.
Old 10th March 2014 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaytheRumor ➑️
Is the sx a different bit rate than the 404?
the 404 uses some type of compressed format on samples, the sx is uncompressed WAV.
Old 11th March 2014 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaytheRumor ➑️
Is the sx a different bit rate than the 404?
Some say the sx sounds more like other 16 bit modern samplers.The compression (slight cutting of frequencies) makes the earlier models stand out sonically.BTW the 404 has some shortcomings in the way it resets back to the start of the sample when editing mark/loop points ect and real time reverse.The 303 and sx dont share this.Real time-One of the best features too.Bummer!!!

(if there was one that had all the best features inc battery ectect id get that one lol (cry)
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