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Does a person's gear define their sound....
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat ➡️
What bases do they not cover?
Pushing a multitude of parameters.Can you not see that the null tests only cover basic sound processing parameters/basically recording simple audio down and checking if they null.Every developed software will have intricate character deviations that have been programmed in,sometimes a mistake/glitch or a advantageous progressive design mirroring the sw makers ideas.For instance maybe its a gimick but many peeps say the new sl mixer in reason 6 improoves the sound.Thats the default mixer now in reason 6?All samplers and percussion mmachines have different envelopes ect ect ect to help with the triggering of samples.Some envelopes like on my mpc4000 are tighter/faster and more sensitive than the later numark mpc s after testing myself(and adjusting defaults settings of course.)But its not worth think about too much.Most daws sound the same boring nuetral unmusical way generally.Yawn.Thts why i wont read that thread.Cheers
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
cal1's Avatar
Think of Scott Storch in the mid 2000s. The Yamaha Motif heavily influenced his sound.

Also the 808 influenced not one producer but the sound of a whole music genre.

so, yes. gear influences the sound one makes. i dont know if it defines the sound though because i can make the sound i want with different setups.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #63
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➡️
Pushing a multitude of parameters.Can you not see that the null tests only cover basic sound processing parameters/basically recording simple audio down and checking if they null.Every developed software will have intricate character deviations that have been programmed in,sometimes a mistake/glitch or a advantageous progressive design mirroring the sw makers ideas.For instance maybe its a gimick but many peeps say the new sl mixer in reason 6 improoves the sound.Thats the default mixer now in reason 6?All samplers and percussion mmachines have different envelopes ect ect ect to help with the triggering of samples.Some envelopes like on my mpc4000 are tighter/faster and more sensitive than the later numark mpc s after testing myself(and adjusting defaults settings of course.)But its not worth think about too much.Most daws sound the same boring nuetral unmusical way generally.Yawn.Thts why i wont read that thread.Cheers
If a company cannot make a product that will do the very basic of instructions then they should stop making that product. It isn't intricate scenarios, it is processing ones and zeros. The match will not change regardless of scenario, that would be the same as saying 2 + 2 = 4 in some instances, the math is absolute. So far there has been absolutely no evidence to even suggest that any daw produces a different output, it has been up to this point in the realm of heresay. The daw is designed to put out the exact same output for a given scenario over and over again. It isn't a stressful or intricate situation, it is basic mathematics.

If there was a company or programmer intentionally put in an "advantageous progressive design mirroring the sw makers ideas" that altered the correct output of a sound that company would be out of business because a very basic requirement of a DAW is that it should under all circumstances output the same thing every single time or else no one would trust it since there results could not be repeated.
Old 21st September 2012
  #64
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Yes and no.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwonderful ➡️
Yes and no.
I agree with everything said but this.
Old 21st September 2012
  #66
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ➡️
I agree with everything said but this.
Why lol
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➡️
Pushing a multitude of parameters.
better yet, could you give me a scenario where the pushing of said parameters would result in an unsuccessful null? I am completely open to the possibility that DAWs are capable of producing different outputs, however there has been no evidence to even remotely suggest it. Everything has been left in the realm of perception bias, if there was a difference why has there not been any recorded evidence to show it? Surely someone out of the multitude of people using daws would have some form of proof.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
MONSTA_ONE's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwonderful ➡️
Yes and no.
+1
Old 21st September 2012
  #69
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This thread was created to bash Ableton and frooter loops

I use a MPC at the moment, but the OP has an opinion that's wack. I will be reinstalling Ableton and frooter loops just to spite the OP.
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➡️
This thread was created to bash Ableton and frooter loops

I use a MPC at the moment, but the OP has an opinion that's wack. I will be reinstalling Ableton and frooter loops just to spite the OP.
lol
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Aristocrat ➡️
better yet, could you give me a scenario where the pushing of said parameters would result in an unsuccessful null? I am completely open to the possibility that DAWs are capable of producing different outputs, however there has been no evidence to even remotely suggest it. Everything has been left in the realm of perception bias, if there was a difference why has there not been any recorded evidence to show it? Surely someone out of the multitude of people using daws would have some form of proof.
Individuals DONT need proof to make there decisions.They DONT have to PROOVE anything to anyone.Its like telling a holy man of the mountains that god is a figment of his imagination.Mathmatics and science is a great reliever of confusion to the insecure(like religion).Makes them feel less random and therefore superiour.Altho what was once IMPOSSIBLE has now been investigated and now is made possible.Why?not because of science,just experimentation/STUDY and the removal of negatives.Result?anything is POSSIBLE to the open minded.Even digital certainties are open to variations especially when programmed in by wily developers!!!.There is no such thing as a st8 line in this universe digital or otherwise.Everything is subject to the distortion of time and space.Thats what makes music fascinating.Just let it roll out.Do you know where MUSIC and SOUND come from?I dont.All i know is that one chooses fl and anther ableton and only part of this CHOICE is due to workflow rightly or wrongly...Im not gonna give someone a hard time if they think their cold/nuetral daw is better sounding than the next poster is all im saying
Old 21st September 2012 | Show parent
  #72
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➡️
Individuals DONT need proof to make there decisions.
If people don't use empirical data and observations to make their decisions they might as well use a coin and a four leaved clover to make their choices. Everyone that makes music uses empirical data to guide their decisions as much as they wouldn't like to think so.

Quote:
They DONT have to PROOVE anything to anyone.Its like telling a holy man of the mountains that god is a figment of his imagination.Mathmatics and science is a great reliever of confusion to the insecure(like religion).Makes them feel less random and therefore superiour.
It makes no sense to compare religion and science in this sense since science is based off empirical data that can be measured and recorded and religion is usually faith based. What we are talking about is scientific, I am not asking him about something that cannot be measured or assessed. It is very possible and very easy to measure whether daws do produce different outputs. There are very simple tests to either confirm or deny what he says. His belief in daws having a sound does not make it real.

Quote:
Altho what was once IMPOSSIBLE has now been investigated and now is made possible.Why?not because of science,just experimentation/STUDY and the removal of negatives.Result?anything is POSSIBLE to the open minded.
I think you missed the post where I said that I am very open to the probability that daws are capable of giving different outputs, I very clearly stated that.

Quote:
Even digital certainties are open to variations especially when programmed in by wily developers!!!.There is no such thing as a st8 line in this universe digital or otherwise.
I think you are grossly over - complicating this, it is not as if we are dealing with complex algorithms where probability and chance are involved. It is the addition of numbers. 1 + 1 will always and forever more equal 2.

Quote:
Everything is subject to the distortion of time and space.Thats what makes music fascinating.
I don't debate this, I quite agree. However what you are missing is the fact that in the "distortion of time and space" the daws have always given the same results, so even if the things distort the difference is negligible since they always null. [/QUOTE]

Quote:
All i know is that one chooses fl and anther ableton and only part of this CHOICE is due to workflow rightly or wrongly...Im not gonna give someone a hard time if they think their cold/nuetral daw is better sounding than the next poster is all im saying
I didn't give anyone a hard time, I merely stated daws do not have a sound, my opinion was challenged so I defended it. I have long since begun talking about something else with him.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #73
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Michael T's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Of course it does. A song made on a Fantom will sound different that a song produced on a Yamaha when that producer uses "factory" patches and distinct effects from the machine he or she is using. Roland effects have a classic sound unlike software which mimics everything that can be mimicked but usually fails. The same with Yamaha.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Blimey.......its that daws vs daws thread again.I still believe the consumer has the last say.You can think what you like based on the evidence passed down to you by the null testers!!!?naughties and 1 ies will forever null and theres just no point in talking about anything else as far as digital correctness is concerned.The mystery is now solved if there ever was one in the first place.Ill give my self a for being so innocent.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael T ➡️
Of course it does. A song made on a Fantom will sound different that a song produced on a Yamaha when that producer uses "factory" patches and distinct effects from the machine he or she is using. Roland effects have a classic sound unlike software which mimics everything that can be mimicked but usually fails. The same with Yamaha.
You do realize we are talking about things in the software realm, and at any rate we are talking about their output assuming the input is the same. The scenario you gave had so many variables, of course they would sound different.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs ➡️
I still believe the consumer has the last say.
This was never debated, we agree here though to be honest this was never the issue.
Quote:
You can think what you like based on the evidence passed down to you by the null testers!!!?naughties and 1 ies will forever null and theres just no point in talking about anything else as far as digital correctness is concerned.

You are under the assumption that I have not done these tests myself. I actually do some research in order to attain as good a result as possible which is why I have no problem saying I use the same DAW as the OP. If daw's had a sound I would have switched long long ago.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #77
Gear Maniac
 
SMARTGUY's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Gear can define a person's sound, if intentional or because of lack of mastery of the equipment. But overall I believe that it comes from within you. The Rza made it a point to use a new machine on each project, in the end he sounded like how we know him to sound, but on the other hand he did change machines in the hopes that it would inspire the work differently.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Ive used an mpc4000 next to the mpc 5000 for extended periods and playing in a beat in one and then gone st8 to the other and tried to play in the same beat so i could compare the sound........they are very similar with same type resolution/sound(nearly??)and all the same basic advanced mpc functios/pads ectect.Well for some reason i always played in a different type rhythm on each machine.Not one better than the other but came out very different.So hard to compare.........Also after a couple of years on the 4k im also using an elktron MDUW which is a complete oppisite style/feel and when listening back later(while stoned usually)i cant tell wether its the 4k or the MD(sometimes its like this loll).In fact while stoned i dont know with what and when ive made the music ha ha.......This is the best when you know its you but its kinda out of your hands.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #79
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by F Major ➡️

On Gearslutz you see people switching their gear so much and complaining about how stuff doesn't work, or sound like XYZ equipment. It's easy to lose perspective on what this phenomenon really indicates.
would be intersting to run a poll of how llong people have gone without buying gear, and how long people go before thinking...'hmmm now I need a xyz to make beats better'.

It's hard t break oneself away from the lure of I' I just need a this and one of these' and then repeating this process every ever how often and never really getting anywhere. Yet those that stick with the one tool and work with its pros and cons seem to get further ahead...I guess maybe they spend more doing and thinking of what they'd like to be doing with.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #80
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-I-Addict ➡️
would be intersting to run a poll of how llong people have gone without buying gear, and how long people go before thinking...'hmmm now I need a xyz to make beats better'.

It's hard t break oneself away from the lure of I' I just need a this and one of these' and then repeating this process every ever how often and never really getting anywhere. Yet those that stick with the one tool and work with its pros and cons seem to get further ahead...I guess maybe they spend more doing and thinking of what they'd like to be doing with.
<-------comfortable with fl-studio and m-audio controller. And i would like to think music shows!
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Gear influences culture, culture influences gear, culture influence music, music influences culture. All that **** influences us, and then we influence all of that ****.

And at the end of the day - some kid will say what is or isn't this or that and no one can say he's wrong or right. Only time can do that part. In one universe Dilla is the truth. In another universe, he was undiscovered. Just make your music and hope you're on the right planet. It'll help if your music has FEELING. That's the part that nothing defines except the person making the music.
Old 22nd September 2012
  #82
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Obviously every piece of gear has its own tone, so what gear you use does make up your sound. It doesn't define your music though, as in melodies, rhythm/groove, etc. What music you make with it is all up to the person, but the sound is the sound.

If 2 ppl both make songs using nothing but a minimoog, they are both going to sound like a minimoog, even if the music is completely different.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➡️
No.

If Dilla used Ableton, he would smash you on that too. Actually Dilla is the perfect example, to refute your theory. He used a few machines over the course of his short lived carrer. He smashed cats with all of them.

I dont care about any of the equipment I use. I will smash cats on whatever is available to me.


Smashed cats...funny stuff!
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse381 ➡️
If 2 ppl both make songs using nothing but a minimoog, they are both going to sound like a minimoog, even if the music is completely different.

Bingo
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
not unless they use the Ren or Maschine
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Gear can define sound and structure, but my style and grooves will always be me. That's how it is for me.

I do try to get a certain type of sound/vibe from my music but depending on what I use the results may vary.
If I make stuff with ableton live, I'll experiment with more complex ideas. But if I make stuff with just my roland sp, things tend to be much simpler. Why? because its easier to undo in live8 than the sampler cause of load times/speed and the methods of building the songs are different.
There are also my vst's I tend to use in live8 and specific fx's I use on my sampler.
Then with an mpc, I tend to loop everything up.
So those things affect my overall sound and song structure.

With all that said, my drum rhythms, bass grooves, style of playing, and random noises stays consistent but may vary depending on my mood.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
it certainly can. my sample based hip-hop stuff always sounds like my style regardless of what i'm using, because i do things the same way.

but i've realized that my electronic music is much more defined by the specific synths i use. a lot of analog synths are monophonic, and that tends to change how you compose since you can't play chords—everything is built upon single-voice layers.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
Holy sh*t, I've never seen anyone as lost as trillgates in this post.
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➡️
Gear influences culture, culture influences gear, culture influence music, music influences culture. All that **** influences us, and then we influence all of that ****.

And at the end of the day - some kid will say what is or isn't this or that and no one can say he's wrong or right. Only time can do that part. In one universe Dilla is the truth. In another universe, he was undiscovered. Just make your music and hope you're on the right planet. It'll help if your music has FEELING. That's the part that nothing defines except the person making the music.
+1



Everything has to do with everything...
Old 22nd September 2012 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobsmcgee ➡️
Holy sh*t, I've never seen anyone as lost as trillgates in this post.
lol what did he say?
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