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this Moog bass patch
Old 18th September 2012
  #1
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🎧 10 years
this Moog bass patch



He starts creating a patch on some Moog (not sure which model) @ 3:08.
That bass is so sick. I have a Slim Phatty and am trying to recreate it.
I just can't get the filter sounding that wet.
His patch is so creamy.
Any idea what type of osc(s) he might be using?
Old 19th September 2012
  #2
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Sam an huel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
This is a Minimoog Model D.
It is warm, juicy, creamy... and is really a king in whatever you choose to call this department.

On a Model D you can use the oscillators mixer to overdrive the filter, or not.
Plus there is the famous trick to patch a feedback path in the filter: you end up with more grease, less resonance and this is of course very level-dependant.

The VCA overdrives easilly too, on a Model D it is a combination of mixing input levels in the filters and output level at the VCA...on a D you really need to experiment with levels. I don't know for the Slim Phatty but it is a Moog after all and that is the first thing i'd try to explore to find the creamy in it.

If there is some autotune or something like that on a Slim phatty, let it warm and disable it. If the sound it too straight try some delicate tuning modulation maybe.

Find the waveform yourself but i find the saw is useful since it got all harmonics content. And once filtered by the Moog Ladder filter it is one of the most juicy to my taste.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #3
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam an huel ➡️
This is a Minimoog Model D.
It is warm, juicy, creamy... and is really a king in whatever you choose to call this department.

On a Model D you can use the oscillators mixer to overdrive the filter, or not.
Plus there is the famous trick to patch a feedback path in the filter: you end up with more grease, less resonance and this is of course very level-dependant.

The VCA overdrives easilly too, on a Model D it is a combination of mixing input levels in the filters and output level at the VCA...on a D you really need to experiment with levels. I don't know for the Slim Phatty but it is a Moog after all and that is the first thing i'd try to explore to find the creamy in it.
on the Model D, it ain't that serious. you don't have to worry about levels and trying to overdrive the (Voltage Controlled Filter). the minimoog was overdriven at the factory. just turn on 2 oscillators, filter out some of the highs and you're good.

that patch is kind of weak, imo. it's too brassy or something. that's why he switched to the other board; he don't know how to use the MOOG. you could do way better than what he dialed up. Still, he's definitely got skillz. that beat knocks hard.
Old 19th September 2012
  #4
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Sam an huel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
on the Model D, it ain't that serious. you don't have to worry about levels
That's an opinion.
I can't agree > E.g playing a 3 osc patch all levels full up and the same with levels set under halfway not to overdrive is definitely not sounding the same. There is nothing to argue there and it is also a key to get thinner sound on a Mini. Yes levels are important on a Mini, in my humble opinion.

I was just trying to share some insight on what can make a sound creamy -or not- on a Model D. I was not sending a recipe.
Old 19th September 2012
  #5
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🎧 5 years
I didn't hear anything in that video except two guys trippin' balls and making a ruckus.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam an huel ➡️
That's an opinion.
I can't agree > E.g playing a 3 osc patch all levels full up and the same with levels set under halfway not to overdrive is definitely not sounding the same. There is nothing to argue there and it is also a key to get thinner sound on a Mini. Yes levels are important on a Mini, in my humble opinion.

I was just trying to share some insight on what can make a sound creamy -or not- on a Model D. I was not sending a recipe.
it is well known that the minimoog was overdriven due to a mistake by one of the engineers. So, there is nothing you have to do to overdrive it; it comes that way. that's not opinion; that's fact.

turning up 3 VCOs all the way won't make the mini sound any different than setting them at half volume, except they will only be half as loud. no overdrive from turning them up.


Btw, I have a minimoog, so I know what I am talking about. I just tested it to make sure and there is no difference between low VCA and hi VCA except for absolute volume. the sound doesn't change.

that bass patch wasn't special at all and I wouldn't be surprised if the OP could get something comparable from the LP.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof ➡️
on the Model D, it ain't that serious. you don't have to worry about levels and trying to overdrive the (Voltage Controlled Filter). the minimoog was overdriven at the factory. just turn on 2 oscillators, filter out some of the highs and you're good.

that patch is kind of weak, imo. it's too brassy or something. that's why he switched to the other board; he don't know how to use the MOOG. you could do way better than what he dialed up. Still, he's definitely got skillz. that beat knocks hard.
I think he was still using the same patch from the moog when he switched to the fantom, and was just using the fantom as a controller through midi.

idk, I felt the opposite on the patch though. I thought that bass patch/bassline sounded great, but didn't care for the rest of the beat. I've never really liked moog bass with dark pianos though. idk just never went together to me.
Old 19th September 2012
  #8
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🎧 10 years
that bass is insane, idk with you guys talking about.
that beat goes hard as hell too, y'all trippin.
i'm still having trouble getting a patch close enough to that with my SP.
it's close... just not close enough.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
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Sam an huel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof ➡️
there is nothing you have to do to overdrive it; it comes that way. that's not opinion; that's fact.

turning up 3 VCOs all the way won't make the mini sound any different than setting them at half volume, except they will only be half as loud. no overdrive from turning them up.
There is something to do on a Minimoog Model D NOT TO OVERDRIVE Filter and VCA: Turn oscillators volume down and master volume down ,and your patch will sound different. You can definitely make the sound less greasy.

Well, after all, we all have different ears and sensibility but you can't ignore this since many Minimoog users experienced this for decades.
Like i do on my Model D.

Sorry for the OP if it doesn't help. bye.


Quote:
I think he was still using the same patch from the moog when he switched to the fantom, and was just using the fantom as a controller through midi.
+1
Old 19th September 2012
  #10
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
are you guys even sure that bass isn't a phantom patch?? model D was pre-midi although it could be easily modded.. regardless i don't think the bass sound is so incredible, mostly the dude's playing skills which definitely has more bounce to the ounce.. any link to the finished beat??

oh and btw, the phatty has an overdrive knob/feature
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
are you guys even sure that bass isn't a phantom patch?? model D was pre-midi although it could be easily modded.. regardless i don't think the bass sound is so incredible, mostly the dude's playing skills which definitely has more bounce to the ounce.. any link to the finished beat??

oh and btw, the phatty has an overdrive knob/feature
idk for sure, but he started playing the patch on the mini, then continued playing the same exact sound on the fantom seconds later. My guess is he midi-modded his model D (say that 3x fast lol) and was controlling it with the fantom to have more keys to work with.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➡️
are you guys even sure that bass isn't a phantom patch?? model D was pre-midi although it could be easily modded..
I read somewhere that for awhile there was a version with MIDI already installed being sold shortly before the voyager came out. Might be one of those if it's not just a modded one.

Wouldn't really make sense to use a fantom patch for that kind of bass when you have a moog right there. I'm sure it's the moog from MIDI, he probably just likes the keys on the fantom more, or controls modules from the fantom anyway.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbongsilver ➡️
I read somewhere that for awhile there was a version with MIDI already installed being sold shortly before the voyager came out. Might be one of those if it's not just a modded one.
that's not true. production on the minimoog ended in 1980, long before the Voyager came out in 2001. 1980 was the year that MIDI was invented, so it's impossible for that to be the case.

some minis are modded (such as my own) and it's a relatively easy mod from what I understand.

at one point, however, there were MIDIMOOGs made by Studio Electronics. These were rack units with MIDI and a dedicated LFO. These units had oscillator boards taken from actual minimoogs.

After being sued by MOOG, they changed the name to MIDIMini but still had minimoog boards. When they ran out of those, they made their own version.
you can still find these around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longbongsilver ➡️
Wouldn't really make sense to use a fantom patch for that kind of bass when you have a moog right there. I'm sure it's the moog from MIDI, he probably just likes the keys on the fantom more, or controls modules from the fantom anyway.
as for the patch, I think it's not from the MOOG. it sounds a bit juicier and cleaner when he's playing it on the Fantom. The MOOG tends to have a bit dirtier sound, although we're just hearing it out of speakers.

Keep in mind that there was clearly an edit between the minimoog and Fantom bass, so it's not like he's playing in on the Fantom "seconds later" as stated in another post. In fact, he's got a brass patch on the Fantom that he briefly plays while he's still on the mini.

with all that said, it could be the mini. my mini has both MIDI IN/OUT, but I think that's kind of rare. Most minis just have MIDI IN. if that's the case, then he could only have MIDI by controlling it with the Fantom.
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by fooloof ➡️
that's not true. production on the minimoog ended in 1980, long before the Voyager came out in 2001. 1980 was the year that MIDI was invented, so it's impossible for that to be the case.
Did a search for that info again. A version with MIDI was briefly produced by a company out of the UK that somehow got the rights to the Moog name before Bob got it back.
Old 20th September 2012
  #15
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xanax's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
^ absolutely i remember that, made the front cover of SOS & Future Music back in 98..
but this could very well be a pre-midi model D with a simple kenton solution or mod
Old 20th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbongsilver ➡️
Did a search for that info again. A version with MIDI was briefly produced by a company out of the UK that somehow got the rights to the Moog name before Bob got it back.
That's true. The Welsh Minimoog!! Good one

here is a bit of info:

http://m.matrixsynth.com/2007/03/moo...g-model-e.html
Old 20th September 2012
  #17
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🎧 10 years
Also you can have older Minimoogs modded to have midi in.
Old 23rd September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
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waveterm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse381 ➡️
idk for sure, but he started playing the patch on the mini, then continued playing the same exact sound on the fantom seconds later. My guess is he midi-modded his model D (say that 3x fast lol) and was controlling it with the fantom to have more keys to work with.
Far from the same sound.....

The sound he plays on the Fantom is 100% from the Fantom. Sounds lifeless and digital.

WT
Old 24th September 2012
  #19
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Sam an huel's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You guys don't know of Lintronics, Kenton or Silent Way ?

Many ways to midiy a Model D.
Old 24th September 2012
  #20
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waveterm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Sure, I have a Kentonkit for my mini. That being said, I stand by my comment that the second sound is not the mini.

WT
Old 24th September 2012
  #21
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🎧 5 years
^I have no idea why someone would program a patch on a model D, and then go through the hassle of trying to duplicate it on a Fantom. Only to choose the Fantom version to use in the track over the Model D, when the moog is sitting right there in front of you. But I guess its possible thats what he did...
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #22
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveterm ➡️
Sounds lifeless and digital.
you're hearing the patch thru a recording device's microphone.

hilarious.
Old 24th September 2012
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Does it sound like the patch is made with multiple oscillators or just one?
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #24
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waveterm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYPHY ➡️
you're hearing the patch thru a recording device's microphone.

hilarious.
Dude, I have 25 years of experience with the minimoog to clearly distinguish between the two sounds. They aren´t even remotely the same.

WT
Old 24th September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by waveterm ➡️
Dude, I have 25 years of experience with the minimoog to clearly distinguish between the two sounds. They aren´t even remotely the same.

WT
You think you could replicate that bass patch on your Mini?
Old 24th September 2012
  #26
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waveterm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
THe sound he plays on the mini up until 3.30, sure.

The one he plays on the Fantom from 3.30 and forward, no.

WT
Old 24th September 2012
  #27
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waveterm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here´s a great mini-demo where you can sense the warmth of the oscillators and the creaminess of the filter. Disregard the delay-fx.

It has the same quality as the first sound.



WT
Old 24th September 2012
  #28
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jono_3's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
A little phatty/slim phatty should easily be able to get the 3:08 sound going.
Old 24th September 2012
  #29
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🎧 10 years
I'm trying to create the patch at 3:30.
I love the rezzy top end on it. I'm having trouble capturing it with my SP tho.
Old 25th September 2012
  #30
Deleted User #106149
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Steinbergs Model E is freeware, try the presets on that maybe?
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