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Funny Maschine story
Old 16th September 2012
  #31
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
but it's not a maschine thing, it's more a software thing vs hw samplers....

software exports are extra clean wich is very good for delicate things such as strings.

HH drums love distortion that's why an HW sampler will always win, most HW sampler add a **** load of crap to your audio, even 16 bits units do this...with a computer use saturation plugins or resample your drums, I do this all the time: layer some drums in battery, when I have a nice kit I sample it in the s2800 or the 950 and resample in the puter...then I blend my resampled sounds with my kit... works pretty well....can be used for other elements aswell.
Old 16th September 2012
  #32
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel ➑️
but it's not a maschine thing, it's more a software thing vs hw samplers....

software exports are extra clean wich is very good for delicate things such as strings.

HH drums love distortion that's why an HW sampler will always win, most HW sampler add a **** load of crap to your audio, even 16 bits units do this...with a computer use saturation plugins or resample your drums, I do this all the time: layer some drums in battery, when I have a nice kit I sample it in the s2800 or the 950 and resample in the puter...then I blend my resampled sounds with my kit... works pretty well....can be used for other elements aswell.
True, it is a software vs HW issue but I will mention that the dude who picked out the maschine beat wasn't able to identify a beat that I did in logic that was also played.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #33
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahuel ➑️
but it's not a maschine thing, it's more a software thing vs hw samplers....
On that note, I think I will make my exit. I really am not trying to get into that discussion too deep. I cant say I really care much about that. However, I currently have about 10 hardware samplers, so maybe it doesn't impact me as much. I dunno.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #34
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
okay...I m really not trying to start an argument over that type of stuff...I'm just trying to help those who keep wondering why their FL or whatver beats dont sound like an MP...I mean software tools arent bad, quite the contrary...get a couple of cheap rack units, resample what needs some extra mojo or learn to use a couple of plugins to simulate that stuff and stop being worried with that.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➑️
On that note, I think I will make my exit. I really am not trying to get into that discussion too deep. I cant say I really care much about that. However, I currently have about 10 hardware samplers, so maybe it doesn't impact me as much. I dunno.
One last thing. I remember a pretty long thread about NI stuff sounding thin OOB. Seems like it was a few yrs ago. Cant find it. There was some interesting stuff said in that thread. There were also some thoughts on how address this. Im just getting into the hybrid aspect of things and haven't really messed with NI stuff too tough, but this might have something to do with things. I will have battery and kontakt back in my hands soon, to mess around with. It will be interesting to see if I find anything to care about with my setup, where this type of thing is concerned. I hope not. I have pretty big plans for Kontakt.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #36
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eldorado_p's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
Which one is maschine? Or, are they both maschine?
Maaann... doesn't even matter! Dope a$$ beats fam!
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➑️
One last thing. I remember a pretty long thread about NI stuff sounding thin OOB. Seems like it was a few yrs ago. Cant find it. There was some interesting stuff said in that thread. There were also some thoughts on how address this. Im just getting into the hybrid aspect of things and haven't really messed with NI stuff too tough, but this might have something to do with things. I will have battery and kontakt back in my hands soon, to mess around with. It will be interesting to see if I find anything to care about with my setup, where this type of thing is concerned. I hope not. I have pretty big plans for Kontakt.
I hear no difference between battery and ableton drum rack, I hear no difference between a gig file loaded into kontak or into ableton sampler...

I'm not saying there is no difference but if you dont worry about soft samplers vs hw samplers you really should not loose time with that type of stuff...if there is a difference it is so small that it's really not worth bothering....that's like the difference between pro tools and cubase...type of ish that had nerds arguing over nulling tests for years...yawn...
Old 16th September 2012
  #38
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🎧 10 years
I had the 1st as Maschine also. The second just had the feel I expect from hardware, I would have been surprised if that came out of Maschine.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
True, it is a software vs HW issue but I will mention that the dude who picked out the maschine beat wasn't able to identify a beat that I did in logic that was also played.
Are you saying one was Maschine and one was Logic?
Old 16th September 2012
  #40
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas ➑️
Are you saying one was Maschine and one was Logic?
No, just Asrx and maschine.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #41
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
No, just Asrx and maschine.
Ok. I thought that was what you said but got confused by this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
True, it is a software vs HW issue but I will mention that the dude who picked out the maschine beat wasn't able to identify a beat that I did in logic that was also played.
Were the drums in the first one from Maschine? I guessed them right but I think the drums are what made me think so. I liked the 2nd beat better but just because of the beat itself not because I could tell (or think so) which it was made on. Just preferred it. Both were good though. I would love to hear the same beat made on both to compare. It's tough to compare two different beats with totally different sounds. Nice job though!
Old 16th September 2012
  #42
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannas ➑️
Ok. I thought that was what you said but got confused by this:



Were the drums in the first one from Maschine? I guessed them right but I think the drums are what made me think so. I liked the 2nd beat better but just because of the beat itself not because I could tell (or think so) which it was made on. Just preferred it. Both were good though. I would love to hear the same beat made on both to compare. It's tough to compare two different beats with totally different sounds. Nice job though!
The drums are not from maschine. I hated all the drums that came with maschine. I will use the other instruments on occasion. I originally did the first beat on the asrx but the disk got corrupted so i remade it on maschine. After remaking it i never liked the maschine version, it seemed almost transparent and really light in the drum parts. Thanks

Sent from my SPH-D710
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #43
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3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➑️
Dont feel bad man. I did too. The ish was so extra blatant, that I thought it was some type of trick. I never thought it would be that easy to pick. When I had maschine my issues were hardware based, so I never got around to really doing any critical listening. Hell, evern this time, I was listening on the stereo speakers in my LR lol.

People say that you wont be able to tell once it is mixed, mastered, and converted to mp3. I never had a strong opinion about that before. A friend of mine who recently got maschine, and also has an ASR-X, 2500, and a SP, was telling me the other day that to get things sounding good in maschine you really had to work with it / tweak things a lot more. I really didnt have a strong opinion about that either.

Not sure if this impacts whether or not I care about such things, but it was quite interesting to see the results.

Great post. It does seem you have to work harder to get it to sound right. I felt the first was Maschine but then I was like nah, it is a trick. But if it is good music, I guess who cares.
Old 16th September 2012
  #44
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🎧 5 years
if you're making beats on maschine sampling from vinyl, the sound quality basically has to do with you're sound cards converters. that being said there are other things like maschine's fx and filters which i find weak and straight up pale in comparison to the asr's mighty DP fx..
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Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #45
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
The first beat IS maschine. I originally did it on the Asr-x but the disk got corrupted so I had to redo it on maschine. I always thought that the maschine version sounded light, especially in the drums. The first beat is mixed and mastered, not by me though.


The second beat is straight off of the Asrx into pro tools , tracked out of course. No eq or on any of the instruments.
Is it just me, or is this the elephant in the room?

I don't know who mixed/mastered the first mix, and it doesn't sound like a bad job at all, but we're not comparing like with like here!

To me, the 1st track sounds "finished" the 2nd sounds "raw". Therefore if you're giving me the choice between software and hardware, I'm probably going to say the 2nd is hardware, because it's more organic, and there's such a big difference between the 2 styles that it's clear there's either a production difference, or you want us to think there is (ie it's a trick question).

What would be far more revealing is uploading the (unmixed) version of the maschine beat, and the original version you did on the MPC before it got corrupted (if you have even a rough listening copy of it).

At the moment, you're asking people to comment on which cake was made in the fancy kitchen, when one cake is iced and ready to serve, and the other is fresh out of the oven. Or another crap simile of your choice
Old 17th September 2012
  #46
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
@psychomonkey

I have the unmixed maschine beat for sure , Ill try to find the asrx version.

Sent from my SPH-D710
Old 17th September 2012
  #47
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
if you're making beats on maschine sampling from vinyl, the sound quality basically has to do with you're sound cards converters. that being said there are other things like maschine's fx and filters which i find weak and straight up pale in comparison to the asr's mighty DP fx..
i thought maschine was all digital using usb... how is it possible to sample directly from vinyl into it?

and doesn't maschine have a mpc mode that can emulate the distortion of an mpc?
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #48
Hobbs_Won
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey ➑️
Is it just me, or is this the elephant in the room?

I don't know who mixed/mastered the first mix, and it doesn't sound like a bad job at all, but we're not comparing like with like here!

To me, the 1st track sounds "finished" the 2nd sounds "raw". Therefore if you're giving me the choice between software and hardware, I'm probably going to say the 2nd is hardware, because it's more organic, and there's such a big difference between the 2 styles that it's clear there's either a production difference, or you want us to think there is (ie it's a trick question).

What would be far more revealing is uploading the (unmixed) version of the maschine beat, and the original version you did on the MPC before it got corrupted (if you have even a rough listening copy of it).

At the moment, you're asking people to comment on which cake was made in the fancy kitchen, when one cake is iced and ready to serve, and the other is fresh out of the oven. Or another crap simile of your choice
Overlooked that... my ADHD is really bad.

Maybe that's why I like the 2nd one better. I like rough mixes.

Both beats are really good tho. Good stuff.
Old 17th September 2012
  #49
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🎧 15 years
Mmmmm... that doesn't explain it for me at all. I do not like rough mixes and demos at all. I normally want to hear the finished product. To me the 2nd sounded more like what I would hear on a "record". (Or what I would want to hear on one?) I have even thought avout the converters thing before but the hardware you use has to go through those same converters at the end of the day. Not as much cumulative effect perhaps.

One thing I will say is that I never use the effects / tools that come with any DAW, with the exception of Samplitude. That may prove to work to my benefit at the end of the day perhaps.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #50
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➑️
Mmmmm... that doesn't explain it for me at all. I do not like rough mixes and demos at all. I normally want to hear the finished product. To me the 2nd sounded more like what I would hear on a "record". (Or what I would want to hear on one?) I have even thought avout the converters thing before but the hardware you use has to go through those same converters at the end of the day. Not as much cumulative effect perhaps.
Fair enough - although then you're not just comparing the production, but you're comparing the mix as well.

It also doesn't alter the fact that in this case, we're comparing one mixed track with one rough production. The aesthetic of the 2nd might well suit you better, but that's irrelevant really - the mixes were posted to see if people could identify which was which.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #51
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here is the unmixed version str8 from maschine to Pro tools.
Attached Files

Goodting(unmixed).mp3 (3.12 MB, 72 views)

Old 17th September 2012
  #52
Hobbs_Won
Guest
lol I liked the unmixed version better.....

but the second beater definitely sounds thicker...the bass is hairier and the kick thumps...

But at the end of the day....isn't this kind of flawed anyway? two different beats with 2 different sample sources...

wouldn't the same exact beat, with the same drums and everything be a better test?
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #53
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
lol I liked the unmixed version better.....

but the second beater definitely sounds thicker...the bass is hairier and the kick thumps...

But at the end of the day....isn't this kind of flawed anyway? two different beats with 2 different sample sources...

wouldn't the same exact beat, with the same drums and everything be a better test?
I agree it would be a better test but my asr-x zip drive did the death click so...
I never wanted this to be a test. I was just posting about how I was playing beats for this dude and he was spot on with picking out the beats that I did in maschine. We were 3 heinekens deep so i forgot to ask him what was the tell tale sign of a beat made in maschine. I posted here an most got it right.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #54
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
I agree it would be a better test but my asr-x zip drive did the death click so...
I never wanted this to be a test. I was just posting about how I was playing beats for this dude and he was spot on with picking out the beats that I did in maschine. We were 3 heinekens deep so i forgot to ask him what was the tell tale sign of a beat made in maschine. I posted here an most got it right.
the unmixed one to me sounds a lot closer though now...but it's too late now because we heard both and we know and the brains going to use that info..
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #55
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beyondat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
the unmixed one to me sounds a lot closer though now...but it's too late now because we heard both and we know and the brains going to use that info..
Yes it does sound closer but thats probably because you never heard the asr-x version.
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #56
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourmajesty ➑️
i thought maschine was all digital using usb... how is it possible to sample directly from vinyl into it?

and doesn't maschine have a mpc mode that can emulate the distortion of an mpc?


maschine is just software with a usb controller, that being said the software allows you to record samples from any existing sound card you use directly into the program so it's just a matter of plugging your turntable/mixer to the audio in of your interface.

maschine has an SP & MPC emulation but it doesn't really add distortion, i usually turn it off it just muddies the sound imo..
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Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourmajesty ➑️
i thought maschine was all digital using usb... how is it possible to sample directly from vinyl into it?
Maschine is a sampler and you can sample anything into it. It uses a hybrid approach of the computer CPU + dedicated hardware and the signal chain is no different than sampling external sources in any other in the box setup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yourmajesty ➑️
and doesn't maschine have a mpc mode that can emulate the distortion of an mpc?
Maschine has a vintage sampling mode with very accurate modeling of the entire signal chain for SP1200 and MPC60 including converters and filters. It doesn't "emulate the distortion of an mpc" and it doesn't "just muddies the sound".
Old 17th September 2012
  #58
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🎧 5 years
^ very accurate my azz i have both the SP1200 & MPC60.. the emulation is wack (not sure ren get it much better from what i've heard so far)
Old 17th September 2012 | Show parent
  #59
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax ➑️
^ very accurate my azz i have both the SP1200 & MPC60.. the emulation is wack (not sure ren get it much better from what i've heard so far)
I disagree, NI emulations are pretty cool and some aspects are pretty close to the original behaviors, the sp1200 "fairy dust" is really good... calling these wack is actually pretty wack.

These emulations dont add that extra saturation that make hw samplers drums thicker thought

so far the best software tool I found to emulate that is a touch decapitator

Use NI emus for the overall color and "caracteristic artefacts" and add a subtile amount of distortion with the decapitator for thickness, you might be surprised of how cool that sounds.
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Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #60
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
the unmixed one to me sounds a lot closer though now...but it's too late now because we heard both and we know and the brains going to use that info..
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondat ➑️
Yes it does sound closer but thats probably because you never heard the asr-x version.
What he means is the unmixed Maschine track is closer to the hardware sampler track..ie the mixing has pulled them further apart. Hearing both in their unmixed state, it would have been harder to tell.

Maybe the ASR version would have given a 50/50 split, maybe it wouldn't...we don't know!

But really, short of comparing 2 versions of the same track (and repeatably really) there's no fair test here. If you mate pulled out 3 tracks correctly as to how they were done, it's as likely that workflow influences your style as sound.
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