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Kick and Bass A volatile relationship?
Old 18th September 2012
  #31
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If it's a program kick, and it's not gelling with the bass - and you are just mixing, not the producer. Either - swap the kick for a similar but more appropriate sample.

OR

Print a hit of the kick drum, and re-trigger from the original kick track. Adjust the envelope and pitch slightly until it locks in. While you're at it, if it's a static kick drum part, use a tempo relevant modulation effect and make the trigger program output velocity dependent on input volume. Movement.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze ➑️
Totally dependent on the record. Distorting the bass, yes...I've done that as well but it's very rare and usually when the bass is too smooth in texture for the song.

I usually do a boost/cut check centered around 100 - 125hz too. In some cases a boost OR a cut there can be magic on a kick. Moderately narrow Q.
Thx's for getting back great info. Im putting it into the tool belt! I dig your records by the way. we should colab you mix the bass and kick tho goof.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #33
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➑️
If it's a program kick, and it's not gelling with the bass - and you are just mixing, not the producer. Either - swap the kick for a similar but more appropriate sample.

OR

Print a hit of the kick drum, and re-trigger from the original kick track. Adjust the envelope and pitch slightly until it locks in. While you're at it, if it's a static kick drum part, use a tempo relevant modulation effect and make the trigger program output velocity dependent on input volume. Movement.
How would you re trig the kick some sort of side chain i assume ( sorry for bring you into this lol) and mod effect like a trem or something that brings that presence out. just trying to wrap my head around your idea. Thx story
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by beef ➑️
Great thread, thanks!

A little tip could be to use saturation, nls, kramer tape, decapitator, hls etc. to make the instruments pop more in the mids. and something like filterfreak for the subs and highs.
thanks homie!

I like Kramer on kick's i just sometimes get lost in plugs or have different fav's every other week. i use nls on the 2 but not instruments i have to try that.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noidea. ➑️
How would you re trig the kick some sort of side chain i assume ( sorry for bring you into this lol) and mod effect like a trem or something that brings that presence out. just trying to wrap my head around your idea. Thx story
Modulation of the amplitide, not the frequency- for a little variation. However, I find random velocity kicks annoying and sound more like mistakes, unless your triggering for a live drum track.

Programmed velocity variation at specific chosen moments is what i use. Like if I have some break where the snare, tamb or something else would overlap the kick and cause too much power, I'd use a lower velocity on that one kick.

I genarally use arrangement to deal with kick/bass collisions, drop in bass mutes that flow with the beat(no sidecahain), slide snare a tick off the grid, overall, I try to get things in their own places. That may not work for sustained bass, but in that case, I'd be using a kick that's more of a presence kick.

-Sustained bass heavy song -- clicky kick with little very low end.

-occasional bass hits or pulsed bass -- BIG kick, full low end.

I don't like to have both. Contrast is good.
Old 18th September 2012
  #36
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
IMO monitoring is all it takes to blend kick and bass right. Btw I put bass a lil bit behind the kick - usually one-several ticks work.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ➑️
Modulation of the amplitide, not the frequency- for a little variation. However, I find random velocity kicks annoying and sound more like mistakes, unless your triggering for a live drum track.

Programmed velocity variation at specific chosen moments is what i use. Like if I have some break where the snare, tamb or something else would overlap the kick and cause too much power, I'd use a lower velocity on that one kick.

I genarally use arrangement to deal with kick/bass collisions, drop in bass mutes that flow with the beat(no sidecahain), slide snare a tick off the grid, overall, I try to get things in their own places. That may not work for sustained bass, but in that case, I'd be using a kick that's more of a presence kick.

-Sustained bass heavy song -- clicky kick with little very low end.

-occasional bass hits or pulsed bass -- BIG kick, full low end.

I don't like to have both. Contrast is good.
Good info. thanks man. i am listening to literally hundreds of songs analyzing the kick and bass relationships the past few days and have come to that conclusion.( your last few points) its just hard to have it translate well with out practice you know.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH ➑️
IMO monitoring is all it takes to blend kick and bass right. Btw I put bass a lil bit behind the kick - usually one-several ticks work.
So you mean behind in timing right? my Monitoring isn't the best i have to use a reference track for everything but, it helps sort of.
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #39
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noidea. ➑️
So you mean behind in timing right? my Monitoring isn't the best i have to use a reference track for everything but, it helps sort of.
Yep, behind. Thats how they play it in real life - bassist LISTENS to the groove the drummer is knocking out and plays. So bass is liiil bit behind. Referencing good commercial records is good whatever monitoring one has IMO.
Old 18th September 2012
  #40
Gear Maniac
 
Infinite Ways's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I awesome technique is use is playin live bass on the off beat when is the kick isn't it gives it a kind of west coast feel another technique to use when playin the bass on the beat is just str8 up compression used properly and your bass and kick will never need a prenup again
Old 18th September 2012
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Ways ➑️
I awesome technique is use is playin live bass on the off beat when is the kick isn't it gives it a kind of west coast feel another technique to use when playin the bass on the beat is just str8 up compression used properly and your bass and kick will never need a prenup again
Haha. Yeah I was listening to that flying lotus LA joint. Good example of what your talking about. What type of setting of compression. Prob a fast attack to snack on the trans but.....?
Old 18th September 2012 | Show parent
  #42
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noidea. ➑️
How would you re trig the kick some sort of side chain i assume ( sorry for bring you into this lol) and mod effect like a trem or something that brings that presence out. just trying to wrap my head around your idea. Thx story
Grab one of the kick drums, chop it at the very start of the signal. Export. Load up a trigger program like Trigger, Drumagog, or Sound Replacer. Put that on the original kick track. Load the printed kick drum as the sample. So at this point you're basically getting the same track. However, most of these programs have a pitch adjuster and envelope shaper. So you can bend the sample a little bit.

The modulation could be a tremelo, or anything really. Something that compliments the groove of the record. This is before the trigger program, so you are getting different input levels into the trigger program. This way you get some degree of velocity change if otherwise the kick is just doing the exact same **** again and again and again like many people's sad kick drums do. I talk the kick drums - they tell me. They're extremely depressed when people make them do the same thing again and again for three and half minutes (which in a kick drums expanse is it's whole life - could you imagine an entire life of doing exactly the same thing day in day out?)
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #43
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47radAR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noidea. ➑️
Thx's for getting back great info. Im putting it into the tool belt! I dig your records by the way. we should colab you mix the bass and kick tho goof.
Thanks. Lol @ collab mixing. That might not be a bad idea for some situations. Dave Pensado mixing the drums & Bass while Phil Tan handles keys & Strings. THAT would be interesting...
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➑️
Grab one of the kick drums, chop it at the very start of the signal. Export. Load up a trigger program like Trigger, Drumagog, or Sound Replacer. Put that on the original kick track. Load the printed kick drum as the sample. So at this point you're basically getting the same track. However, most of these programs have a pitch adjuster and envelope shaper. So you can bend the sample a little bit.

The modulation could be a tremelo, or anything really. Something that compliments the groove of the record. This is before the trigger program, so you are getting different input levels into the trigger program. This way you get some degree of velocity change if otherwise the kick is just doing the exact same **** again and again and again like many people's sad kick drums do. I talk the kick drums - they tell me. They're extremely depressed when people make them do the same thing again and again for three and half minutes (which in a kick drums expanse is it's whole life - could you imagine an entire life of doing exactly the same thing day in day out?)
Thanks and I hear you strait up.
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
Noidea.'s Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trell Blaze ➑️
Thanks. Lol @ collab mixing. That might not be a bad idea for some situations. Dave Pensado mixing the drums & Bass while Phil Tan handles keys & Strings. THAT would be interesting...
Yessir, can i pm about that or..... no worries if you don't want too..
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➑️
Grab one of the kick drums, chop it at the very start of the signal. Export. Load up a trigger program like Trigger, Drumagog, or Sound Replacer. Put that on the original kick track. Load the printed kick drum as the sample. So at this point you're basically getting the same track. However, most of these programs have a pitch adjuster and envelope shaper. So you can bend the sample a little bit.

The modulation could be a tremelo, or anything really. Something that compliments the groove of the record. This is before the trigger program, so you are getting different input levels into the trigger program. This way you get some degree of velocity change if otherwise the kick is just doing the exact same **** again and again and again like many people's sad kick drums do. I talk the kick drums - they tell me. They're extremely depressed when people make them do the same thing again and again for three and half minutes (which in a kick drums expanse is it's whole life - could you imagine an entire life of doing exactly the same thing day in day out?)
That's real right there. Listen up folks
Old 19th September 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Man I have a lot to learn... Good thread, although depressing for me
Old 20th September 2012
  #48
Lives for gear
 
47radAR's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noidea. ➑️
Yessir, can i pm about that or..... no worries if you don't want too..
Sure. Hit me up. I've been mixing for myself only lately so it's time to get back out into the world now that I've finished my record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azamat Bagatov ➑️
Man I have a lot to learn... Good thread, although depressing for me
Why depressing?
πŸ“ Reply

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