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Maschine vs. Maschine Mikro (For Ableton use)
Old 13th September 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Maschine vs. Maschine Mikro (For Ableton use)

So I've had the Mikro now since last winter and I love it. The size is perfect and I've never had any complaints about not having the extra knobs & screen that the original Maschine has. However, I'm getting ready to start integrating Ableton into my workflow and I plan to use Maschine as both a midi controller for Ableton and as a plugin. Also maybe for live performances down the road. For you Maschine owners out there that use it with Ableton would you absolutely recommend I upgrade to the full Maschine. Do the extra knobs and screen make a big difference for use in Ableton?
Old 13th September 2012
  #2
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stilts27's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptroni23 ➡️
So I've had the Mikro now since last winter and I love it. The size is perfect and I've never had any complaints about not having the extra knobs & screen that the original Maschine has. However, I'm getting ready to start integrating Ableton into my workflow and I plan to use Maschine as both a midi controller for Ableton and as a plugin. Also maybe for live performances down the road. For you Maschine owners out there that use it with Ableton would you absolutely recommend I upgrade to the full Maschine. Do the extra knobs and screen make a big difference for use in Ableton?
I use that setup and the extra knobs are not needed...I took me a while to get the setup/control i like--but it works great
Old 13th September 2012
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptroni23 ➡️
I'm getting ready to start integrating Ableton into my workflow and I plan to use Maschine as both a midi controller for Ableton and as a plugin. Also maybe for live performances down the road. For you Maschine owners out there that use it with Ableton would you absolutely recommend I upgrade to the full Maschine. Do the extra knobs and screen make a big difference for use in Ableton?
I'd say so, especially for live use and as a MIDI controller. I'd definitely miss the knobs and the displays.
Old 13th September 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This is a good question. I like how well the full size maschine intergrates with Ableton. The mikro is said to have a sturdier USB port. This might be something to look into. Especially if it has better encoders than the full size.
Old 13th September 2012 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➡️
This is a good question. I like how well the full size maschine intergrates with Ableton. The mikro is said to have a sturdier USB port.
The newly refreshed controllers (MKII for both full Maschine and Mikro) all have the sturdier locking USB ports and the pads which were already the best available are even more sensitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➡️
Especially if it has better encoders than the full size.
Not sure what you mean. Mikro has only one knob.
Old 13th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketz ➡️

Not sure what you mean. Mikro has only one knob.
Nevermind then. Forgot about that.
Old 14th September 2012
  #7
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
So is Maschine and Live a good idea then? Been beating around this issue for a few months now and not finding any straight answers on the matter.
Old 14th September 2012
  #8
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Logical Mind's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
So is Maschine and Live a good idea then? Been beating around this issue for a few months now and not finding any straight answers on the matter.
Man bro u and me seem to be having the same ideas lately haha. I just bought maschine and Live is most likely going to be my next DAW
Old 14th September 2012
  #9
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
If you gonna use Live then there really isn't any use for maschine other than a sound module. Live is my favorite daw to chop and sequence in hands down. **** gets done in ableton. Maschine maybe cool, but I cant see using it over ableton. The only thing that interest me in maschine is the sp1200 mode for drums other than that im good in live All Day!!!
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesEdward ➡️
If you gonna use Live then there really isn't any use for maschine other than a sound module. Live is my favorite daw to chop and sequence in hands down. **** gets done in ableton. Maschine maybe cool, but I cant see using it over ableton. The only thing that interest me in maschine is the sp1200 mode for drums other than that im good in live All Day!!!
Why use one or the other? Maschine works as a plug in in Live why not just use it as a sound module? That's what I had in mind anyway. I have a love/hate relationship with Drum Racks. Its super flexible sure but at the same time I kinda want a separate drum machine with its own thing going on and its own feature set like the SP1200 mode.
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical Mind ➡️
Man bro u and me seem to be having the same ideas lately haha. I just bought maschine and Live is most likely going to be my next DAW
lol great minds I guess. I am looking at a lot of different things. Sometimes I can be a scatterbrain lol
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
Why use one or the other? Maschine works as a plug in in Live why not just use it as a sound module? That's what I had in mind anyway. I have a love/hate relationship with Drum Racks. Its super flexible sure but at the same time I kinda want a separate drum machine with its own thing going on and its own feature set like the SP1200 mode.
The beauty of live is using it the way you would a hardware sampler. Just drag and drop wave files onto midi tracks and start sequencing. Of course you can warp and do all that sound design stuff cause samples automatically load into a sampler when you drop on midi tracks, so you never know where the session is gonna take you. When it comes to loops all you gotta do is sync to the tempo by warping a little and then slice to midi track and you ready to get your preemo,dilla, or 9th wonder on no problem. Drum rack is wack you have look at ableton as a whole. Once you understand that work flow you will be good. Drum Racks are useful for when slicing to midi tracks so your chops are all on one bank, but you should give your drums there own midi tracks, unless you into finger drumming then may want to use a drum rack, but to really freak the drum rack you have to send midi to individual midi tracks for greater control. But that **** is too complicated. Something like this:



Also automation in ableton is way more advanced than maschine. You got clip automation,track lane automation, and a whole mess of other cool stuff.
Old 14th September 2012
  #13
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stilts27's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
So is Maschine and Live a good idea then? Been beating around this issue for a few months now and not finding any straight answers on the matter.
Yes, very flexible...
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by stilts27 ➡️
Yes, very flexible...
Whats flexible about it?
Old 14th September 2012 | Show parent
  #15
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesEdward ➡️
The beauty of live is using it the way you would a hardware sampler. Just drag and drop wave files onto midi tracks and start sequencing. Of course you can warp and do all that sound design stuff cause samples automatically load into a sampler when you drop on midi tracks, so you never know where the session is gonna take you. When it comes to loops all you gotta do is sync to the tempo by warping a little and then slice to midi track and you ready to get your preemo,dilla, or 9th wonder on no problem. Drum rack is wack you have look at ableton as a whole. Once you understand that work flow you will be good. Drum Racks are useful for when slicing to midi tracks so your chops are all on one bank, but you should give your drums there own midi tracks, unless you into finger drumming then may want to use a drum rack, but to really freak the drum rack you have to send midi to individual midi tracks for greater control. But that **** is too complicated. Something like this:



Also automation in ableton is way more advanced than maschine. You got clip automation,track lane automation, and a whole mess of other cool stuff.
yes Live is crazy deep. I have the standard version bought it in June and I am still wrapping my head around it all. I am into finger drumming so drum racks work alright for me but I would still rather have a better option. The only reason I use it over Kong in Reason is because it has better options for routing individual drum layers if it weren't for that I would be Kong all the way. Then again I am still considering Maschine
Old 14th September 2012
  #16
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Also is the Suite really that much better than the standard? I didn't think I would need any of the extras from the suite.
Old 14th September 2012
  #17
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Logical Mind's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
The only reason I use it over Kong in Reason is because it has better options for routing individual drum layers if it weren't for that I would be Kong all the way. Then again I am still considering Maschine
True that. As complex as the kong is, I wish it had some better eq's for layering. I usually gate 2 or 3 kicks together in one kong (or snares, toms, whatever), and I always have to export them individually for mixdown. Kind of a let down.
Old 14th September 2012
  #18
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Suite is cool if you want a few extra instruments like operator and sampler, but really isn't necessary if you gonna be working with samples and vst. I feel at home in live and I've invested a lot of time in learning these other daws. When it comes to working with sampled based music live is where its at hands down. Now if your into composing original music, then I think a linear sequencer would be better suited for your workflow.
Old 15th September 2012
  #19
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical Mind ➡️
True that. As complex as the kong is, I wish it had some better eq's for layering. I usually gate 2 or 3 kicks together in one kong (or snares, toms, whatever), and I always have to export them individually for mixdown. Kind of a let down.
Deeper than that. I can route each layer to its own output in Drum Racks Kong is limited to just the 16 layers and you cannot treat each layer. With drum racks you can treat each piece of each layer so say one layer in your kick has too many highs run an eq on it. Say you want to control the master level on a piece of the layer turn it down. You can do this using seperate tracks but to me having it all in one instrument on one pad is a lot cleaner. Maschine wins with the cool factor for me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesEdward ➡️
Suite is cool if you want a few extra instruments like operator and sampler, but really isn't necessary if you gonna be working with samples and vst. I feel at home in live and I've invested a lot of time in learning these other daws. When it comes to working with sampled based music live is where its at hands down. Now if your into composing original music, then I think a linear sequencer would be better suited for your workflow.
Oddly enough I love Live for composing original music. It is a large part of why I got it. What's great about Sampler and Operator? Operator is just an FM synth right? Is sampler an advanced version of Simpler?
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #20
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
Deeper than that. I can route each layer to its own output in Drum Racks Kong is limited to just the 16 layers and you cannot treat each layer. With drum racks you can treat each piece of each layer so say one layer in your kick has too many highs run an eq on it. Say you want to control the master level on a piece of the layer turn it down. You can do this using seperate tracks but to me having it all in one instrument on one pad is a lot cleaner. Maschine wins with the cool factor for me too.


Oddly enough I love Live for composing original music. It is a large part of why I got it. What's great about Sampler and Operator? Operator is just an FM synth right? Is sampler an advanced version of Simpler?
You can do any style of music in live, but I particularly like it best when working with loops. But if I was creating creating 16 bar and 32 bar arrangements then I would probably stick to cubase or something along those lines. As far as operator goes it just an fm synth, but heads seem to like it, and sampler has multi samples where as simpler can only read them. If you want to tweak multi sampled instruments then you have to convert to a sampler, which can be done by right clicking on a simpler and selecting convert to sampler from the context menu.
Old 15th September 2012
  #21
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am not looking to create multisamples though creating an instrument from a single shot is very appealing. Can Simpler do this?
Old 15th September 2012
  #22
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Yeah. All you gotta do is drag and drop your samples on to a midi track and they will automatically load into a simpler, which will then be mapped across your midi controller.
Old 15th September 2012
  #23
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesEdward ➡️
Maschine maybe cool, but I cant see using it over ableton.
I prefer Maschine to Live as a production tool mainly for the much better hands-on mouseless workflow. Maschine feels more like using a self-containted hardware instrument while using Live feels more like using computer software. And while both Live's session view and Maschine's own session view are very similar with the scenes and pattern clips, there are certain advantages to Maschine such as being able to record realtime modulation into clips (without hacks and cumbersome workarounds).

Maschine + Live is a popular combo because the two complements each other's weaknesses very well.
Old 15th September 2012
  #24
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2 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
You can record real time automation on to tracks in the arrange page and draw in automation in the clips envelope box, and then choose to unlink clip automation from the clip for polyrhythmic automation of filter frequencies or whatever else floats your boat, but your right you can't record real time automation into clips in session view.
Old 15th September 2012 | Show parent
  #25
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stilts27's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesEdward ➡️
Whats flexible about it?
I don't use it for Live use...just for production use...but the Routing...audio/MIDI..control...I love the combo...

I'm going to post a video soon when I get some time...
Old 15th September 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical Mind ➡️
True that. As complex as the kong is, I wish it had some better eq's for layering. I usually gate 2 or 3 kicks together in one kong (or snares, toms, whatever), and I always have to export them individually for mixdown. Kind of a let down.
Why don't you route each kick into its own mclass EQ?
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #27
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend ➡️
Why don't you route each kick into its own mclass EQ?
because you are limited to 16 outputs on Kong and that would require one to use several of them per sound. That might work for some people I know it doesn't for me.
Old 16th September 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWest ➡️
because you are limited to 16 outputs on Kong and that would require one to use several of them per sound. That might work for some people I know it doesn't for me.
Im not sure I understand you. They are sixteen pads and sixteen individual outputs. That seems adequate to me.

But yeah if you do run out of outputs. You can for example use a separate Kong for the hats and cymbals. And another one for toms etc.
.
Old 16th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend ➡️
Im not sure I understand you. They are sixteen pads and sixteen individual outputs. That seems adequate to me.

But yeah if you do run out of outputs. You can for example use a separate Kong for the hats and cymbals. And another one for toms etc.
.
You can but for me that is messy when I can do that in one drum rack. I love Kong just wish its routing was more flexible for multiple layers and that has caused me to not use it as much anymore. When it comes to sampled drums there is nothing that Kong can do that Drum Racks cannot and it does so more efficently. Kong is still my favorite Reason device and while I do not need Drum Racks its nice to use it if I have it at my disposal
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