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NO it's not a game changer (software sequencer/drum machines etc....)
Old 8th September 2012
  #1
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
NO it's not a game changer (software sequencer/drum machines etc....)

I read the threads about the MPC ren vs maschine and saw people saying how the MPC could have been a game changer. Then I went to make a beat using my 4k, kontakt, battery 3 and pro tools. I now realize I actually LIKE having separate programs/pieces that work together. My outputs of my analog modules come to protools via a sub mixer on a pro tools aux channel. The digital outputs of my mac are routed the same way (pro tools aux), so Kontakt and other standalones come in via the digital out from my mac on an aux to the pro tools mixer. Opening separate plugins as standalones allows my 32bit computer to access all of its ram for diff programs. So in essence I'm able to sequence on my 4k''s sequencer my hardware pieces, Kontakt for pitch/Time shifting along with my orc libraries etc.... with Battery 3 for drums and other VSTs for whatever I decide to bring in. There's nothing I can't do to a sample. I can drag sounds directly into my 4k, sample directly in my 3k, real time pitch shift etc.. Sequcence with editing in protools.

Anything I want to do, I can. Then it dawned on me, none of this new **** will be a game changer. I can already do anything I can imagine/desire to.

Realizing the power I already have at my finger tips, I made a beat. Don't need to buy the new stuff that will allow me to do what I'm able to do today, so I can call it a "game changer". When you avoid the marketing hype of new ****, it becomes apparent most of us can do anything that can be done to a sound with what's at our fingertips already.
Old 8th September 2012
  #2
Hobbs_Won
Guest
In the times we're in and the technology afforded us...for something to be a "game changer" at this point would really have to be some mindblowing stuff.
Old 8th September 2012
  #3
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you're used to your setup nothing will beat it, especially if you're not so young... I remember that I used to learn a new seq in half an hour a few years back...now when I try something new I just get a big headache.
Old 8th September 2012
  #4
Hobbs_Won
Guest
BTW I'm with the OP on this all day....

I still haven't seen a program that does for drums what Battery 3 can do....

I load up Battery inside FL and pull up a kit in 2 seconds... drag a sample or a track from FL's browser into Slicex in 2 seconds. I can chop it and stretch in a minute or two. And I'm ready to off...
Old 8th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
So basically...you create a specific thread to justify, validate, etc your reasons for not buying these newer products?

The gent doth protest too much, methinks

Reminder - You are in the Gearslutz Forum where we have dedicated sub forums dedicated to new gear....sub forums created for high end and low end gear. No one implies you can't make music with the hardware MPC relics.
Old 8th September 2012
  #6
DAH
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🎧 15 years
It was a game changer along with the SP when it was released. In the 80s
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
So basically...you create a specific thread to justify, validate, etc your reasons for not buying these newer products?

The gent doth protest too much, methinks

Reminder - You are in the Gearslutz Forum where we have dedicated sub forums dedicated to new gear....sub forums created for high end and low end gear. No one implies you can't make music with the hardware MPC relics.
So why do you have an issue with anybody trying to inspire people to work with what they have?

Why would you poke at somebody trying to help a person put things into perspective instead of pumping consumerism?

It's really odd....
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
So why do you have an issue with anybody trying to inspire people to work with what they have?

Why would you poke at somebody trying to help a person put things into perspective instead of pumping consumerism?

It's really odd....
Ain't that the pot callin the kettle black...at all parties concerned.


So why do you have an issue with anybody trying to inspire people to work with new and exciting gear?

Why would you poke at somebody excited about a new product they helped bring to the masses (of musicians looking for a new product that will inspire them)?

Did you forget where you are? We have members that work on major label products discussing their involvement with projects to....inspire others...and it doesn't help for you to go buy that CD or download on iTunes.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
Ain't that the pot callin the kettle black...at all parties concerned.


So why do you have an issue with anybody trying to inspire people to work with new and exciting gear?

Why would you poke at somebody excited about a new product they helped bring to the masses (of musicians looking for a new product that will inspire them)?

Did you forget where you are? We have members that work on major label products discussing their involvement with projects to....inspire others...and it doesn't help for you to go buy that CD or download on iTunes.
I remember reading you tell somebody somthing along the lines of ... there are over 100000 threads on gs and that you only post in the mpc related ones and to not follow you around gs.... and here you are in a non mpc thread you and the company you work for went called out and here you are talking mpcs trying to undermine the point the op is trying to make.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyMan ➑️
I remember reading you tell somebody somthing along the lines of ... there are over 100000 threads on gs and that you only post in the mpc related ones and to not follow you around gs.... and here you are in a non mpc thread you and the company you work for went called out and here you are talking mpcs trying to undermine the point the op is trying to make.
You didn't even read the OP message. He is an MPC 4000 user and talking about how he uses it in tandem with all other pieces of gear he owns.

In case you don't feel like reading it (I know...it is kind of long), he uses an MPC 4000, MPC 3000, Battery 3, and Pro Tools. Whoa...that sounds exactly what I have sitting to the right of me...

And I am more than happy to discuss how you can use hardware MPC(s) you own...been doing that for years waaayyyy before Jan 2012.

By the way...it is well known (at least those that know and stalk me) that I am in the Armed Forces.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
Ain't that the pot callin the kettle black...at all parties concerned.


So why do you have an issue with anybody trying to inspire people to work with new and exciting gear?

Why would you poke at somebody excited about a new product they helped bring to the masses (of musicians looking for a new product that will inspire them)?

Did you forget where you are? We have members that work on major label products discussing their involvement with projects to....inspire others...and it doesn't help for you to go buy that CD or download on iTunes.
It's my personal opinion that it is more genuine to help somebody work within their means rather then influence them to drop money on **** they probably don't need!

Yes, I understand the name of this forum is Gearslutz...that's cool...some new gear is pretty exciting and sexy looking. I relate. And I want...But the name of this specific subforum doesn't imply gear, it implies workflow..

I'd like to see people doing what they want to do at the end of the day be it with a new piece of gear or an old one.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #12
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
You didn't even read the OP message. He is an MPC 4000 user and talking about how he uses it in tandem with all other pieces of gear he owns.

In case you don't feel like reading it (I know...it is kind of long), he uses an MPC 4000, MPC 3000, Battery 3, and Pro Tools. Whoa...that sounds exactly what I have sitting to the right of me...

And I am more than happy to discuss how you can use hardware MPC(s) you own...been doing that for years waaayyyy before Jan 2012.
And both pieces of hardware mentioned are, at the very latest, 4+ years old....

The 3000 is 18 years old...

Battery 3 has been out for like 4 years

Pro Tools?
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
It's my personal opinion.....
It's my personal opinion that if you use a hardware MPC exclusively (MPC 5000, MPC 1000, etc)...you really can't go wrong. Get yourself a multi-channel interface w/MIDI I/O for your computer. Connect your MPC to the audio I/O and MIDI I/O. Pull up Pro Tools. Lace it with your favorite VSTs (Battery, Kontakt). Set up properly, you can use your MPC to sequence the plugin instruments loaded into Pro Tools.

Not a new subject or notion at all. Pull up old threads such as "And So My MPC Sleeps." You will read posts about hardware MPCs being the greatest thing since slice bread to counter talks about how great hybrid hardware/software products are.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #14
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
It's my personal opinion that if you use a hardware MPC exclusively (MPC 5000, MPC 1000, etc)...you really can't go wrong. Get yourself a multi-channel interface w/MIDI I/O for your computer. Connect your MPC to the audio I/O and MIDI I/O. Pull up Pro Tools. Lace it with your favorite VSTs (Battery, Kontakt). Set up properly, you can use your MPC to sequence the plugin instruments loaded into Pro Tools.

Not a new subject or notion at all. Pull up old threads such as "And So My MPC Sleeps." You will read posts about hardware MPCs being the greatest thing since slice bread to counter talks about how great hybrid hardware/software products are.
I've been here through that....I've read the threads and I remember that specific one.

I'm a former 2000xl owner and honestly, I wouldn't consider using one in that fashion...I use FL Studios sequencer and I haven't found anything like it today.

And I'm not talking about using the steps, I set it for loop record and bang out my patterns.....just for strictly MIDI sequencing...nothing has come close IMO.

Using the AKAI in the signal chain to sample the outs? I guess....but that seems like a waste. I'd no sooner just buy a nasty mic pre.

Again, there is more than one way to skin a cat...But my MPC longing is really relegated to nostalgia now.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #15
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
I use FL Studios sequencer and I haven't found anything like it today.
I played with the demo of FL Studio Once. I liked it's Step Sequencer which is better than the MPC Ren's. What do you like about it specifically that makes you forgo anything else? I am always looking to write MPC Feature Request threads.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
I played with the demo of FL Studio Once. I liked it's Step Sequencer which is better than the MPC Ren's. What do you like about it specifically that makes you forgo anything else? I am always looking to write MPC Feature Request threads.
Well, the magic in FL's step sequencer is how u can use the mouse with it...

for example, making a snare roll can be done in 2 seconds...

click on the first step of the snare channel then drag it across and all step are filled, then in one click I have pitch, velocity, pan, filter and resonance at my disposal.

So if I want to make it pitch up/down I swipe the mouse across from left to right and done... same with pan L to R, same with nudge etc. etc.

Or, I can send it to the piano roll for even further microediting.

As far as the pattern sequencer...Image Line has abandoned the pattern blocks for pattern sequencing in favor of clips. Much to my chagrin... but I digress...
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I see. The Ren does this as well. You can record a snare roll using note repeat the classic way or draw it in with a mouse as you do in FL Studio. You can also draw in realtime automation (Volume, Pan, Filter Cut off, Tuning, etc) or record it via the 16 Qlinks.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #18
Hobbs_Won
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
I see. The Ren does this as well. You can record a snare roll using note repeat the classic way or draw it in with a mouse as you do in FL Studio. You can also draw in realtime automation (Volume, Pan, Filter Cut off, Tuning, etc) or record it via the 16 Qlinks.
Right, but why would I pay for functionality I already have? That's the point...

We can argue all day about similar features. It's cool that AKAI has implemented features that have been standard on almost all DAWS for 5+ years.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahrome ➑️
So basically...you create a specific thread to justify, validate, etc your reasons for not buying these newer products?

The gent doth protest too much, methinks

Reminder - You are in the Gearslutz Forum where we have dedicated sub forums dedicated to new gear....sub forums created for high end and low end gear. No one implies you can't make music with the hardware MPC relics.
IN a forum about music production, I discussed a topic that related to how I use what I have. Idiscussed my view on technology. I KNOW it runs counter to your constant product promotion here but at the end of the day some of us actually make music and make money doing so. I don't seek to justifyanything. We have forums about all the things you mentioned but this one isn't the new product thread. By forum rules this isn't the place to do your thinly veiled product marketing. You cal call my pultec a relic too but i will keep using what works for me. I posted in the correct forum for what I typed
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #20
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bigyo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbs_Won ➑️
BTW I'm with the OP on this all day....

I still haven't seen a program that does for drums what Battery 3 can do....
COSIGN
Old 8th September 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Insert a few blank bars at the beginning of the song so that your DAW will sync properly with the MPC.

Do you have to start from the beginning of the song every time you want to change one little thing, with the 4k? If so, does the idea of not having to do this anymore = huge time savings? This plus "completely" total recall plus no tracking out = a pretty big deal to some folk.

Game changer does not equal revolutionize the way we do modern hip hop.
Melodyne was supposed to do that though...lol.
Old 8th September 2012 | Show parent
  #22
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrides ➑️
Insert a few blank bars at the beginning of the song so that your DAW will sync properly with the MPC.

Do you have to start from the beginning of the song every time you want to change one little thing, with the 4k? If so, does the idea of not having to do this anymore = huge time savings? This plus "completely" total recall plus no tracking out = a pretty big deal to some folk.

Game changer does not equal revolutionize the way we do modern hip hop.
Melodyne was supposed to do that though...lol.
No, I don't insert any blank bars and I don't have to start from the beginning of the song to make changes. THAT would make me use something else and I'd be looking at doing something different. I kinda work pro tools and the MPC as if they are one environment. I have a hybrid system that works well for my work flow. Tracking out is no big deal because I still track records properly the way I did going to 2" instead of just printing. I utilize the outboard gear that I have in the process. I track with the direction I'm going in mind, so tracking out is a part of my process. (Kinda like cooking with a seafood stock instead of just throwing in water. It will take you more time to make the stock, but the result tastes better) As far as complete recall. Complete recall is a good thing but it takes away from the auto back up that I have now. I sequence in my 4k but all of my midi flows through my DAW, so the sequence is recorded in protools and in my MPC. I think total recall is a bit overrated. I'll explain why. Back in the day you had to write down every outboard setting and you never had a true recall. ITB allows you better recall but it's not the optimal sound. The pultec plugin doesn't carry the weight of a pultec. So while I'd have total recall, there's an opportunity cost in getting it. So, I use some happy middle point between recall and workflow that minimizes the opportunity cost of it. Same thing with the MPC. Many want an all in one piece that allows them to do start to finish there, but that eliminates the power of specialization. Akai or NI could add audio tracks to their software, but this isn't their specialty. There are already some companies that specialize in environments where you can mix/master music. I don't want to compromise the specialization benefit in order to gain the convenience of total recall. Hell I'd imagine there are some doctors that can do surgery, cut hair, cut grass, paint, float and tape sheetrock, lay tile etc... But though it would be convenient to drive to a single place when I need these things, I wouldn't want my doctor to take time off from what he excels at to devote to the other bs.

If Akai, NI etc would do what their good at in a BUG FREE fashion, we can use their product along with the products of companies that specialize in other areas. DAWs today are amazing pieces but for some reason it never fails that I run into cats that come through the lab that haven't totally learned to freak all the possibilities of working in their DAW. Pro tools has been a game changer for me. Having an internal MPC mode of working if it were program only would probably help my work flow. But even that would have a trade off. I really I don't feel I'm lacking anything with the way I work now. It took me some years getting to that point.

It's important to realize that in this age of mass media, most of the "messages" and tips we received are "sponsored". So what seems to be honest advice is usually advice on how to spend your money on something. Look at any "news" show and it's brought to you by someone. A lot of the "tips" around here are merely advertisements. I get paid from music, not musical products/equipment sales. I don't have a sponsorship deal, so my views are purely my own without the bias of pushing a product. I helped start this forum as a resource, not so people could be advertised to in "advice". (Though that's not really related to the OP. It's related to the posts above that knock me saying "take a good look at what you have and pimp it." It's hard to avoid advertising these days. It's everywhere. I'm just adding a bit of perspective to it.
Old 8th September 2012
  #23
Gear Addict
 
lemonsquash's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
i've been simplifying my methods for the last couple of years. the trend nowadays seems to be 'more options equals better music' but i have felt the urge to seek something thats more of the opposite.

now i think i've found my way of doing it... so from here on its just honing skills.
i see theres alot of advertising in the name of advice going on on these forums.
Old 8th September 2012
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Skills is all you need to make old or new school hip hop if you have a an MPC 2500 & a motif. There is no hip hop hit on the radio that can't be done with them. Inspiration can come from any thing but a motif and mpc should be able to bring them to life. 808 drum roll bin around before fl studio and MPC for example T La Rock - Bass Machine - YouTube
Old 9th September 2012
  #25
Brb
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Brb's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Maschine is a game changer, look at the copy cats that stole machines concept... Artuira spark, mpc renaissance. None of these products would have existed or been as good if it wasn't for maschine
Old 9th September 2012
  #26
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Dayl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Nope, not a game changer in the least. Answered markets demand, made a bunch of peoples lives easier, but change the game? nope. Just like the MPC Ren is not a game changer.

These terms get bashed around too often with no good reason these days:

Game changer
Legend/Legendary
Slept on...
Producer
Multi instrumentalist
Old 9th September 2012
  #27
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Slik dA Relic's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
a game changer doesnt have to be something that affects everyone, if it just affects an individual... a keyboard workstation is a game changer, if ur using separate pieces that are now intergrated into 1 unit.. b4 i got my workstation, i was using an S950 sampler, an MMT8 sequencer, an SR16 drum machine., and an SY35 keyboard... then my friend bought a Motif.. i bought the RS... those were game changers for us... everything that we were using, no longer had to be used.. i also had a portastudio 4 trk, and then move up to the Korg D1600, and the 16XD... now i have a Macbook.. for me, those are gamechangers, but it might not be for someone else.

the MPC 60 and the SP1200 were gamechangers for the whole industry.

da relic
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Old 9th September 2012
  #28
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MONSTA_ONE's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
3-free-programs-to-edit-mpc-drum-programs-fast
MPC Maid ( Mac & PC ) http://mpcmaid.sourceforge.net/

Blue Box ( PC ) BlueBox

MPC Pad 187 ( Mac Only ) MyBunnyhug—Software

----------------------------------
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #29
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Dayl's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slik dA Relic ➑️
a game changer doesnt have to be something that affects everyone, if it just affects an individual...
I see where you are coming from, but it kind of does have to switch up an industry to be labelled a game changer, to reach that status.

Otherwise, everyday bits and pieces could be called 'game changers' like having a fridge in the studio. Game changing on a personal level? sure... but to shake the industry and make us reassess how we do things?

The reasons these titles are thrown around so easily these days is partially because it's all been done and the bar is raised too high.
Old 9th September 2012 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Forcing Akai to kill off all existing hardware MPCs and rebrand what a "MPC" is by desperately trying to copy Maschine's integrated software/hardware concept? I'd say there's no doubt the game has been changed.
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