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Kontakt, Halion or Battery...
Old 13th June 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Kontakt, Halion or Battery...

Hi all,

as a long time hardware user I switched to halion as my drum sampler about one and a half years ago. I was quite happy with halion although it has some flaws that I do not like. Nevertheless, the enveloppe editor is stellar and the functions are more or less what I need. (I do not pre-prepare programs but I load each drum sample from my library when I begin programming. My focus is on layering with a few filters and some FX like dist, bitcrush or similar.)

Now I bought NI complete (mainly for reaktor, absynth and guiatr-rig) and suddently I have some options. As I do not want to spend too many hours testing: Shall I switch to Kontakt or Battery or stay with halion?

Battery looks quite cool, esp. the bit and freq control per cell plus the very simple interface looks appealing (on the other hand I was not able to change the number of outputs; restarting everything 10 times did not help :-().

Kontakt seems to have a very flexible routing and excellent FX/Filters. But at the first glance I did not like its handling to much...

What would you do?

best
Dussel

P.S. I have the latest version of each program mentioned above (I do not recall the version numbers of the NI stuff though :-))
Old 13th June 2006
  #2
Gear Addict
 
PeeWeeGee's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I roll with Kontakt. Nothing else on the market right now is as flexible or powerful a sampling tool. Nothing.
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you want just to use it as a drum sampler Battery is an excellent choice. I use it everyday and it works great! I have never experienced any problems with changing numbers of outputs, so it looks strange for me....
If you need smth like Halion is, so more flexible sampler still Kontakt beats Halion in my opinion. Filters and effects sound much better, and it's more versatile. Indeed I have never tried any soft (well hardware neither...) sampler that would be so extend in potential as Kontakt.
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeWeeGee
I roll with Kontakt. Nothing else on the market right now is as flexible or powerful a sampling tool. Nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iziphonics
If you want just to use it as a drum sampler Battery is an excellent choice. I use it everyday and it works great! I have never experienced any problems with changing numbers of outputs, so it looks strange for me....
If you need smth like Halion is, so more flexible sampler still Kontakt beats Halion in my opinion. Filters and effects sound much better, and it's more versatile. Indeed I have never tried any soft (well hardware neither...) sampler that would be so extend in potential as Kontakt.
you both seem to agree on kontakt. I'll try to make some programs with it as soon as I can. How detailed can you adjust the envelopes? So far I've only seen the usual ASDR control - is there a more sophisticated control somwhere? (Sorry if I'm asking rtfm questions :-))

Dussel
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
andrewj's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Kontakt is flexible, powerful, has a built in convolution effect and some really nice filters and FX! I have never used my EMU and AKAI hardwares, since I plugged this one in!
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have just read some stuff about kontakt and it seems to be very powerful. I hope its not too buggy.... in the NI forums the general opinion is not very good :-)

Thx
Dussel
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
TinderArts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For drums, I go with Battery.

For everything else I use YellowTools Independence. It's supported very well by ChickenSys Translator for moving other formats to Independence.
Old 13th June 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If this is about drums, then Battery is better then Kontakt. Kontakt is an amazing sampler, but when it comes time to do drums, Battery is unreal.


I use Battery for sampling too. Only time I use Kontakt is when I want to map out a sample and have it in a bunch of different pitches.
Old 14th June 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
How detailed can you adjust the envelopes? So far I've only seen the usual ASDR control - is there a more sophisticated control somwhere?

Well, if you are patient enough you can do whatever you want. Check out about the scripts
Old 14th June 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
I have just read some stuff about kontakt and it seems to be very powerful. I hope its not too buggy.... in the NI forums the general opinion is not very good :-)
Indeed I had some problems after upgrading to 2.1, but the service is excellent. They already published 2.1.1. Works great!!!!
Old 14th June 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab
If this is about drums, then Battery is better then Kontakt. Kontakt is an amazing sampler, but when it comes time to do drums, Battery is unreal.


I use Battery for sampling too. Only time I use Kontakt is when I want to map out a sample and have it in a bunch of different pitches.
This is interesting; can you explain why? What makes battery better?

Thx
Dussel
Old 14th June 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
andrewj's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
With Battery you are able to do faster jobs! You can not edit your samples as detailed as with Kontakt. If you just need a software to trigger lots of samples, perhaps with some velocity switched, some standard FX and things like that, Battery is the way to go! If you want to edit your samples as deep as possible at the moment and unbeatable flexibility Kontakt is the number 1. You are not able to create things like you can in this software! Stability is not rocksolid, but it also depends on your system! I experienced three crashes in six month! Think there are other tools that are less stable! At all my sequencer (Live) has nearly no problems with Kontakt. It has problems with SonicSynth, but not with Kontakt 2!

But it definately depends on your system! Try it!
Old 14th June 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Battery is not better per se, but when it comes to drums it is more intuitive. Its like an MPC, you can layer, loop, trigger, modulate..it's actually super deep. But once you get the hang of it, doing drums is super fast. You can just save a drum kit that you have tweaked out, and then recall it anytime.

I would say battery is like the software MPC. I know GURU is going for the same thing, and is good...but Battery is just sickness for drums.
Old 15th June 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
illynoise's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Battery is cool, but it's not great. As a drum editor it's just okay, but buggy on OS10.4 and is a Hog on XP.

The sounds with battery suck. And it doesn't load MPC progs.

Having said that, I like Kontakt way better than Halion, but to me the EXS in Logic is easier to use. For the way I work Intakt is better than all of them for loops IMO.

BaseJase
Illynoise
Old 17th June 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
vaesion's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
for a hiphopper battery is as close as u get to a mpc
Old 17th June 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
halion 3 is the only soft sampler i've ever really gotten comfortable with--it's super intuitive, easy to use, workflow is quick, and is generally capable of most things you'd ask of a sampler. i dont personally see large enough (if any) benefits in kontakt to warrant switching over. halion's filters are pretty weak, i really seldom use them. but the fact is, you can scour places like KVR and probably come up with 10 or more free vst filters, a few of which will be quite good, and the same for bitcrushing (though halion3's bitcrushing isn't bad).
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaesion
for a hiphopper battery is as close as u get to a mpc
I do not necessarily need something similar to the mpc. Still battery has a cool workflow. What I really like is that u can see the waveform when you edit the envelopes. Thats a strong plus vs. Kontakt. (Halion hast that feature too.) Does anyone know if there is a possibility to show the waveform along with the envelope in Kontakt?

I really like the possibilities of kontakt sonicwise and I feel somewhat limited with battery, so i am still not sure wheter I should stay with Halion.

best
Peter

P.S. I do have intakt too, but I never use loops, so this is no option.
Old 19th June 2006 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Kontakt and Battery are a great team.

Use battery for your one-shots - layering and moulding kit samples and use kontakt for synth and instrument samples that you want to map across a keyboard.

Great programs and compliment each other perfectly.

Rez
Old 21st June 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Battery definitely doesn't suck, it all depends on the sounds you load into it similiar to what sounds you load into an MPC. I would consider using both Battery and Kontakt, I use Battery inside of Ableton Live works great!!!!
Old 21st June 2006 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
if your looking for convinience and with an easy learning curve then get battery ir really simple and great.

for more wierd, in depht programing and biger learning step then kontakt.

for one shots get batery

for multiiintruments giga etc kontakt
Old 21st June 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
abit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Battery - like it a lot, simple, bit change - doesn't do a lot 2me, tons of outs, but is there filters?( no, really!??)
Halion- very good and solid, waldorf filters, freeup memory feature
Kontakt - great, more deep in, but some what complicated, less intuitive imho,don't like interface coz of tinny fonts.
4me - filters is a main thing.
RMX meanwhile, is a killer.
Old 22nd June 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Nut
 
dussel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi all,

this whole post was already written yesterday morning, but it got lost in the digital nirvana behind the submit button. So I had to rewrite everything....

I have done some tests with Kontakt now and these are my results:

1) Architekture: The GUI is very nice and easy to learn (given my experience on hardware and software samplers, IMMV). I do like the flexibility of the insert and send fx, its definitely a step up from Halion. On the other hand - why are the output channels of the vst (not inside) fixed? I d'like to have something like 16 stereo outputs without annoying mono/sourround **** in between (who uses sourround anyway). Maybe this is a particular cubase problem, but other NI tools that I have (such as battery) are able to change the number of outputs just like the steinberg plugs.

2) Sound: I agree with Architect that it depends on the samples you use, I disagree, that it sounds like an mpc. However, if I need a "sound" from my drummachine, I can still use my old SP1200 (its getting less and less use these days). The filters in Kontakt sound decent (I have not ABd them with the Waldorf filters in Halion though). The convolution fx is just great. I love to use weird IRs on stuff and Kontakt allows to do that very easily.

3) Workflow: Here I see the most important con comparing Kontakt to Halion (my workhorse so far). For my style of drums I layer a lot and I shape the samples using detailed envelopes (mainly for the amplifier, but also on pitch etc.). Halion has this great feature (unfortunately it is still a bit buggy) that allows you to edit very flexible envelopes with the waveform of the sample right behind it. That accelerates my workflow a lot since I can see in what order of magnitude my changes are relatively to e.g. the attack phase of the sample. Battery has a somewhat similar feature (it even shows changes on pitch compression etc.) but the envelopes are not that flexible.

Conclusion: I think i'll stay with halion for a while. It sounds ggod, is fast and I know it inside out. However before I update it next time I will check Kontakt again. If NI adds the envelope edit described above (ore smth. similar) I am more than happy to change. Battery is just not flexible enough for my style there are too many things missing.

Thx again for all your posts, GS is really a great place :-)

best
Peter
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