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hiphop vocal chain(whats yours)
Old 12th August 2005
  #1
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
hiphop vocal chain(whats yours)

just wanted to see what some of you other other hiphop heads are you using.
my new chain is:

Sony c800G or akg c12 > Chandler limited ltd-1 > distressor or Api 512,525,550 lunchbox > protools HD3 with 192I/o
Old 12th August 2005
  #2
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paultools's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
AKG 414 or C12VR into Avalon 737SP or Neve VX board pre with a touch of VCA compressor. No EQ except for hi pass around 80HZ. I like to use OMNI if I can get away with it.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #3
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultools
AKG 414 or C12VR into Avalon 737SP or Neve VX board pre with a touch of VCA compressor. No EQ except for hi pass around 80HZ. I like to use OMNI if I can get away with it.
you perfer the sound you get with omni over cardioid
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Sony C800G to Avalon AD2022 to PTools 192i/o

No compressor yet, any advices are welcome...
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #5
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Switchcraft's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Soundelux U195 into a langevin Dual mono mic pre into a fatso into Lavry Blue.
I run synths and samples into the synth inputs ( not DI and Not line) of the DMMP with some shelving and then into the fatso with some warmth tranny compression and then into the Lavry blue, usually with both the soft limiter and analog sinulator on.
sounds great.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #6
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paultools's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
you perfer the sound you get with omni over cardioid
Yes, unless the vocalist is coming off paper , in which case you can get some phasing from the reflections off the notebook or music stand.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #7
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultools
Yes, unless the vocalist is coming off paper , in which case you can get some phasing from the reflections off the notebook or music stand.
hahaha, i hardly let artist even go in the booth with paper.
i might try omni with some of my other mics.. we still have a k2 and 414

edit: just tried the k2 in omni.. i've never used it in omni b4 today. its smoother...
looking at the k2 chart the mic doesn't have as many bumps in omni vs cardioid. the vocals don't have as much siblance either... wow... if i didn't have a good booth it would probably sound like but since my booth sound good i have a overall good sound... i'ma keep messing with it... try omni on the next artist i produce and see if they say anything different like it sounds different or smoother, better whatever...
i didn't even use eq to make the vocals sound good like usual. just flat in with a rvox on the ch
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #8
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
m147 > 1073 > distressor > rosetta 200.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #9
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How does the K2 sound overall?

Right now I use either a Blue Mouse, Adk Vienna Edition, or a secret weapon mic into a neve 31105 or Neotek Elite pre into my Motu HD192. I don't compress while recording.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #10
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
SM57 > Aurora Audio GTQ2mkIII.....
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #11
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Stoneface's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
414 -> ISA430 -> C2 -> Apogee -> 002R

I really want to pick up that C800G or the Korby Kat4 with C800 head. The GTQ2 is also on my list of must buys.

Tony...57? Not that is dosen't work but DAMNNNNN! You got a $3k mic pre...why SM57 over a condensor? Just curious...certainly not trying to knock you.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
U87 -> 737 (pre only) -> Tube Tech comp

also use C800g -> focusrite 430
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #13
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paultools's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
hahaha, i hardly let artist even go in the booth with paper.
i might try omni with some of my other mics.. we still have a k2 and 414

edit: just tried the k2 in omni.. i've never used it in omni b4 today. its smoother...
i didn't even use eq to make the vocals sound good like usual. just flat in with a rvox on the ch
Glad it worked out for you... just beware of the stray reflections that I mentioned.
I have always thought that moving a vocalist AWAY from a mic makes it sound more "present" and "bigger", but it's usually a battle to convince the artist of that, especially when the producer keeps saying "get right up on the mic". Many large-capsule condenser mics were designed to mic sources that were FEET away rather than inches, according to an interview with Al Schmit that I read years ago. I have been using omni and backing up vocalists since then!

YMMV
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #14
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface
414 -> ISA430 -> C2 -> Apogee -> 002R

I really want to pick up that C800G or the Korby Kat4 with C800 head. The GTQ2 is also on my list of must buys.

Tony...57? Not that is dosen't work but DAMNNNNN! You got a $3k mic pre...why SM57 over a condensor? Just curious...certainly not trying to knock you.
Why waste your money on a C800 or Korby mic? If it's hip hop... You can get it done with a 57 or SM7 and a Neve preamp. Anything pricier than a U87 is a waste unless you're having a singer in, but straight rap vocals it's kind of a waste... I was hanging out with one of my big name engineer friends and I was telling him how I get a great sound with my C800g > Neve > 1176.... He was like, "what do you need that thing for???".... He helped me realize that unless you just have an unlimited budget, using a U47 or C800G is a waste on most hip hop sessions... Major label or not. Plus, depending on the rapper, a C800G can be not so great sounding, whereas a U87 will sound good on just about anyone singer, rapper, etc. It's hard to not get a great sound for male rap vocals with a 57 or SM7 and a Neve..

People like to knock the 57. But, it really is a good mic when paired with the right preamp (plus its $75). In my situation, I have no vocal booth and the 57 sounds better than my C800G did. I can bump the speakers and let the artist just sit down and relax or jump around all over the place and still get a great recording.
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #15
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Other mics which I like for hip hop....

Shure SM7
Beta 58
EV RE20
Neumann U87
Soundelux U195, or U99 (used this into an API 512 for a very well known rapper)

All of these mics are under $2500 (most are under $500), and will do the job and sound great through the right pre..
Old 12th August 2005 | Show parent
  #16
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Stoneface's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Don't get me wrong man...I wasne't trying to knock you or the 57. It just really took me by suprise.

You've laid out some really good food for thought. I guess when the time comes, I better try and rent one and do some A/B tests to see if it's worth the $5k price tag. (To my ears anyways.)

Good looking out!
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #17
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface
Don't get me wrong man...I wasne't trying to knock you or the 57. It just really took me by suprise.

You've laid out some really good food for thought. I guess when the time comes, I better try and rent one and do some A/B tests to see if it's worth the $5k price tag. (To my ears anyways.)

Good looking out!
It's all good... A lot of hip hop cats are surprised when I tell them I use the 57, but it works great with a great mic pre/ eq. Just add a a couple db at 12k and you're good! We all get so caught up in the cool pre or mic, we forget that there is great gear that works for cheap money.. Like that 002 rack you have is great for $1000. I even think the converters sound good enough for tracking beats. I put together PT systems for so many major label artists and 90% of them are tracking all their beats into 002's... some of them even the vocals....

Save your money Stoneface.... Those mics are great but I can think of so many better ways to spend $4-5 grand.
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #18
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont
Save your money Stoneface.... Those mics are great but I can think of so many better ways to spend $4-5 grand.
Like a hot tub!
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #19
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Stoneface's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop
Like a hot tub!
That's a thought. Do they make one with switchable polar patterns? heh
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #20
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Stoneface's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont
It's all good... A lot of hip hop cats are surprised when I tell them I use the 57, but it works great with a great mic pre/ eq. Just add a a couple db at 12k and you're good! We all get so caught up in the cool pre or mic, we forget that there is great gear that works for cheap money.. Like that 002 rack you have is great for $1000. I even think the converters sound good enough for tracking beats. I put together PT systems for so many major label artists and 90% of them are tracking all their beats into 002's... some of them even the vocals....

Save your money Stoneface.... Those mics are great but I can think of so many better ways to spend $4-5 grand.
Your advice has not fallen on deaf ears. It's so easy to get caught up in the whole "gear" thing and you are absolutely right. What can I say though...I'm a gearslut to the fullest.

Maybe I need some professional help. Anybody know of any good rehabs....
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #21
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XHipHop's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneface

Maybe I need some professional help. Anybody know of any good rehabs....
Mercenary, vintage king, and ebay.
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #22
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Stoneface's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop
Mercenary, vintage king, and ebay.
fuuck

Just kiddin...that was a good one. I'm laughing so hard I've got tears coming out of my face.
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #23
no ssl yet
Guest
cheap mic club

Well I guess I"m in the cheap path club

SE GEMINI>Amek CIB or Adesigns MP2>Tube Tech CL1-B

Gotta get some Neve Flavor in my place and a massive passive. AFter that I think I'm done buying gear (maybe some more microphones THen I"M DONE LOL)

I've found a local guy I can rent good stuff from (1063, 1073, Pultecs, Sta Level, Massive Passive etc....)


THE GUY has every single piece I have ever wanted
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Blue Blueberry->Great River MEQ-1NV (high pass at 82)->FMR RNLA->Digi 002 Rack. I will get a u87 or u195 next month, still have not decided. oh I still need a better A/D converter! So it will probaly be a u195 and I'll get the Rosetta 200.
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #25
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Fajita's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
CAD-e300>Focusrite ISA 430>Distressor(on 430 insert)>PT(via ADAT Lightpipe from 430

CAD-e300>VC3 or VC6Q>Focusrite ISA A/D>PT

SM57> Focusrite ISA 430>Distressor (insert)>PT
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #26
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the k2 overall has a great sound now that i have it in omni. before it had to much siblance.
can't wait to hook it up with my api heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont
Why waste your money on a C800 or Korby mic? If it's hip hop... You can get it done with a 57 or SM7 and a Neve preamp. Anything pricier than a U87 is a waste unless you're having a singer in, but straight rap vocals it's kind of a waste... I was hanging out with one of my big name engineer friends and I was telling him how I get a great sound with my C800g > Neve > 1176.... He was like, "what do you need that thing for???".... He helped me realize that unless you just have an unlimited budget, using a U47 or C800G is a waste on most hip hop sessions... Major label or not. Plus, depending on the rapper, a C800G can be not so great sounding, whereas a U87 will sound good on just about anyone singer, rapper, etc. It's hard to not get a great sound for male rap vocals with a 57 or SM7 and a Neve..
you sound str8 up dumb sayin that. your tryin to say a sm57 is all you need for hiphop unless you have a budget. the sm57 is nothing great. for only $75 it is a good send for some.
you setup sucks or your ears suck. to say a u87 will sound goon on just about anyone is BS. the u87 sounds bad all the time. the c800 on the other hand i've never heard 1 person sound bad on. when it comes to a guy like me(a engineer) the chain make a huge deal. i never liked using 57's when i was coming u.. now that i have major stuff i still don't like the 57 that much. i can put the 57 into any pre i want to at the moment.
i really hate when ppl say hiphop only needs this.. or if you spend more than a u87 its to much or isn't worth it.... that BS. i know how my music sounds and i know i have a lil deal so thats all that really matters.. but to say a u47 is a waste in a hiphop session.. you have no experience with a u47 then
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #27
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
dfegad
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineMusic
you setup sucks or your ears suck. to say a u87 will sound goon on just about anyone is BS. the u87 sounds bad all the time. the c800 on the other hand i've never heard 1 person sound bad on. when it comes to a guy like me(a engineer) the chain make a huge deal. i never liked using 57's when i was coming u.. now that i have major stuff i still don't like the 57 that much. i can put the 57 into any pre i want to at the moment.
i really hate when ppl say hiphop only needs this.. or if you spend more than a u87 its to much or isn't worth it.... that BS. i know how my music sounds and i know i have a lil deal so thats all that really matters.. but to say a u47 is a waste in a hiphop session.. you have no experience with a u47 then
Are you serious? Yeah, you're right my setup sucks and so do my ears. fuuck

If you don't think that the U87 is one of the most versatile mics ever made then you've been living under a rock. The U87 gets the award for "mic most likely to not sound like **** on anyone". You can't say that about a C800G or U47, as great as those mics are, because the fact is they just will not sound good on everyone. There is a reason why many engineers throw up a 87 first. There is a reason why the Jay-Z's and Missy Elliot's of the world are usually recorded through a U87. Because they don't have time to **** around with a million different mics trying to get the perfect sound. Are there mics better than a U87? Yes. Better for a wider range of uses.... No! So, the U87 sounds bad all the time, huh. You just destroyed your reputation with that comment, because I now know you are clueless.

So, Mr Engineer, while you've been reading articles about Dr Dre using the C800G, I have actually been using one.... for like the last 5 years!!!! I owned one when you were 16 years old, youngster!!!! It's a beatiful mic, but not on everyone. You weren't even old enough to drive when I bought my C800G. Work the boards some more and do some more sessions and you will hear it sound real bad on many voices. Also, it's cool to have a U47, but it isn't neccesary for most hip hop sessions. If you can't get a friggin session done with a SM57 or SM7 and a Neve preamp, then go back to Full Sail, cause you need some recording 101 lessons.

As far as the Sm57 sounding like sh!t.... Well, if you don't know what you're doing anything will sound like sh!t. After you're rude comment, I will not be teaching anymore about engineering today and I'm not gonna teach you how to make a 57 sound great either. Also, all those cheap mics that I listed I have used and been able to get great results from. So haven't the engineers for Wyclef Jean, Ghostface, Wu Tang Clan and a million other hip hop artists that have been making hit records that I don't care to list right now. Oh yeah, the SM7 also sounded pretty good when Bruce Swedien used it on Michael Jackson for Thriller!!!!

Have a nice day and next time think before you say something stupid!
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #28
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mersisblue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
sometimes I love the sublty heh
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
lack of perspective...sm57/58 are great tools any given time, kinda like a swiss army knife...


They can go to hell n back and still refuse to die...
Old 13th August 2005 | Show parent
  #30
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DivineMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont
dfegad
Are you serious? Yeah, you're right my setup sucks and so do my ears. fuuck

If you don't think that the U87 is one of the most versatile mics ever made then you've been living under a rock. The U87 gets the award for "mic most likely to not sound like **** on anyone". You can't say that about a C800G or U47, as great as those mics are, because the fact is they just will not sound good on everyone. There is a reason why many engineers throw up a 87 first. There is a reason why the Jay-Z's and Missy Elliot's of the world are usually recorded through a U87. Because they don't have time to **** around with a million different mics trying to get the perfect sound. Are there mics better than a U87? Yes. Better for a wider range of uses.... No! So, the U87 sounds bad all the time, huh. You just destroyed your reputation with that comment, because I now know you are clueless.
for years ppl have used u87s yea. hell i had one for 3 years... it was the only mic i had for a while. and yes its a workhorse and usually sounds good.. not great... but to often i came across an artist that didn't sound good on the u87 or the POS u87ai that.
now 1 mic that i've never had an issue with is a akg 414.. i've yet to hear a vocal on it that i didn't like.
these days so many ppl have their main vocal mic a sony c800 including missy elliot... not b/c it looks good or it cost so much(only paid $5200 New) or b/c dre said so.. its b/c that mic with the right chain will sound awesome on almost any artist in any genre. not just hiophop

i tested a c800 last year through a liquid.. yuck.. it didn't sound good.
then i put it with a cranse song flamingo. great sound. i had a chance to learn what pres it sounds good with, what pres its ok with, and what pres it sounds like $7000 POS with.

earlier you mentioned its waste to get a c800 if you don't have a singer.. well i have 3. but just so happens the main r&b singer we're working with.. i don't like him on the c800... its to clean for him.. i wanted some color... got an e47 and elux251... that did it. the elux251 is an awesome mic on ANY vocal. i do plan on tying it on some hiphop artist b/c i'm sure it'll sound good. the e47 well you know its a u47 style clone.. has a strong midrange that i'm not to fond of but i can work with it.



Quote:
So, Mr Engineer, while you've been reading articles about Dr Dre using the C800G, I have actually been using one.... for like the last 5 years!!!! I owned one when you were 16 years old, youngster!!!! It's a beatiful mic, but not on everyone. You weren't even old enough to drive when I bought my C800G. Work the boards some more and do some more sessions and you will hear it sound real bad on many voices. Also, it's cool to have a U47, but it isn't neccesary for most hip hop sessions. If you can't get a friggin session done with a SM57 or SM7 and a Neve preamp, then go back to Full Sail, cause you need some recording 101 lessons.
o yea i know you can get a session done with a sm7. i had a friend do some stuff for fred durst and the only mics they used were akg 414 and a sure sm7 he said. the sm7 has its own sound to it... and it usually sounds good and can handle someone like fred in front of it yelling his ass off. i'm not taking anything away from the sm7. the sm57 however.. i can't see doing another session with. i don't mind the beta series they aren't too bad... just something about a sm57's sound i don't like...


Quote:
As far as the Sm57 sounding like sh!t.... Well, if you don't know what you're doing anything will sound like sh!t. After you're rude comment, I will not be teaching anymore about engineering today and I'm not gonna teach you how to make a 57 sound great either. Also, all those cheap mics that I listed I have used and been able to get great results from. So haven't the engineers for Wyclef Jean, Ghostface, Wu Tang Clan and a million other hip hop artists that have been making hit records that I don't care to list right now. Oh yeah, the SM7 also sounded pretty good when Bruce Swedien used it on Michael Jackson for Thriller!!!!

Have a nice day and next time think before you say something stupid!
hell homie you ain't gotta teach me anything... i won't be using a sm57. the cheapest mic i'm using is a rode k2. now that i see you know your sh!t, its my bad the way i came off at you.. a man can admit that, but i'ma stand by my c800G and elux251 all day. the e47.. aww.. i gotta find the right pre for it. b/c that extra strong midrange i'm not liking right now.
i don't want this to turn into a fight over who has the bigger dick(i do by the way LOL) but these forums are here for us to state our opinions
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