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How many folks here have released a record?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I released my only one early last year. Recorded and mixed in my lab but i sent it to a Mastering house to really polish it up. It took six months to really get it to where I wanted it. Its still selling pretty decent via iTunes, Amazon etc... link below

-f

Amazon.com: So Selfish: MP3 Downloads: Vii
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
quit tellin all the secrets
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
my mixer is also a good friend of mines.. and we spent a lil over 40 hours mixing it.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Addict
 
babyface_finsta's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've worked quite a few projects. 2010 will be the first time I've released a Record under my own Imprint... Initially I budgeted 145K for production, features, mixing, mastering license/clearances, travel, per diem etc and all admin involved, with a marketing promotion budget of 300K... The Economy is sooooooo messed up, I have been able to cut the Production cost tremedously...

Typically, your Marketing/Promotion budget is 2-3 times your production budget inorder to be effective... If it's a Female artist 3-4 times your Production cost.

I've seen a lot of problems in my past, and learned that your own Paranoia is your best friend... and I don't care which side of the fence your on... Have an Agreement/Proclaimation for everything.. if the Paperwork aint straight your DONE!!!

Find someone who has a Corporate access to BDS/Soundscan reports... Radio dudes are expensive... Never pay anyone all their money upfront!!!! EVER!!!!!!

Read everything (ESP non music industry business books)... you'd be surprised how dumb 90% of Entertainment Attorneys are...

Do your Due Dilligence... Do Not Lie... IF YOU DONT HAVE IT, YOU DONT HAVE IT!

Remember, that making of the Album is the easy part... and after the Production and Marketing expense... you still have to Press Up and Store those copies...

Know what your getting yourself into...
Old 11th February 2009
  #35
Gear Maniac
 
jb4play's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
Howdy, folks. I'm curious as to how many of you rap, R&B, or hip-hop guys (and gals!) have released an album, whether as an artist or producer. I'm not talking about a mix tape, or a compilation, but a full-length, all-original-material album.

What kind of budgets do you work in? How long does it take you to make it, start-to-finish? What format do you release it?

How many songs? What's the running time? Do you include any skits or other "filler"-type tracks?

And how do you promote it? What avenues do you use to sell it?

Also, do you play live shows? Do you sell your record at gigs? How does it sell? How much do you sell it for?

What kind of legal concerns have you come across (with regards to sample clearance, etc)?

The reason I'm asking is because I've had an influx of mix gigs from hip hop artists lately (and actually, come to think of it, throughout my whole career), and many of them never seem to actually FINISH their record. And those that do don't seem to have a solid means of promoting their hard work. In the world of live bands, recording and promoting a record is a pretty standard, straight-ahead undertaking. I'm hoping to learn a bit more about how indie hip hop artists promote their albums so I can lend some advice to my clients working to get their music out there (and land myself more album gigsheh, which I personally find more rewarding than mixtapes or similar projects).

Thanks, everyone
I released an underground album in 01-02 and released a vinyl lp in 03 I believe (been so long ago, high school days). That was when I was a "rapper."
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #36
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bgrotto's Avatar
Wow...lotta cool info here. Thanks, guys

So do you guys feel there's a lack of "middle-tier" success in hip hop? I might be totally missing something, but it seems to me (in all my insular ignoranceheh) that you're either at the bottom with nothing, or you're working for all the top cats in the industry; not necessarily being a top cat on your own, but doing stuff with and for major artists. Or is it that the "middle-tier" is just that: working with the superstars without really being one yourself?

As an instrumentalist who's played in live bands my whole life, it's much easier for me to see and understand the hierarchy of the live music scene (ie - bands). There's a much more apparent indie culture, one which seems more all-encompassing (as opposed to what I think of when I think "indie hip hop", which is backpackers and dreadlocks - typically stuff that bears little relationship to what's happening commercially). Like I said, maybe I'm way off...so what do you guys consider the middle-of-the-road with regards to success in hip hop music?

Anyway, I appreciate y'all's patience. Please excuse my ignorance.

EDIT - I should mention: I live in a city without much of a local hip hop scene, and certainly without a great deal of hip hop "identity". Perhaps artists in more hip-hop-friendly cities can find themselves with greater regional success than way up here in Boston?
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
EDIT - I should mention: I live in a city without much of a local hip hop scene, and certainly without a great deal of hip hop "identity". Perhaps artists in more hip-hop-friendly cities can find themselves with greater regional success than way up here in Boston?
Let's say u have a very good to great & relevant street or radio song (one song).

U gotta get this going for starters:

1. U have to own ur hood. Create a movement is ur goal. If u dont, none of ur next moves will stand up.
2. U have to get ur local mixshow radio dj's on board BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Then move on to neighboring states radio mixshow dj's.
3. Do all shows in ur area (free if necessary). Beg or pay to open up for any big artists passing thru or in close by states.

Ur record being played by ur local mixshow dj's will insure u get shows and if ur hood is behind u people will feel the energy at ur shows and the movement will be born.

if u have some $tacks, some more moves can be made & some of the above can be easier and/or bigger.

Also, get next song ready. better be as good or better.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
i definitely agree with the post above, there are even mixshow conferences to meet and network with these djs.

to answer your comment bgrotto. I don't really think there's a middle ground for hip hop either you're a backpacker or you're aiming for the top. Artists that aim for the middle usually get looked over. I don't mean to get into social issues, but I think it's because of the urban community's obsession with material possessions.

A rock/pop/country band could make a whole album without mentioning money and sluts and it'd be hot. But with the hip hop world, money and sluts are the goals of many of hip hop's audience (although that's pretty much every man's goals, that's usually what separates commercial from "indie").

Back in the day, you could be just a hungry act ala wu-tang, pharcyde, nas, jay-z, quik and still be able to cross over into commercial, but today with the audiences attention span at .001ms you gotta flash. so you're either at the top or associating at the top or you're at the bottom.

Not to mention the fact that there's a rapper on every 1/2 block in the US. To become an instrument playing musician it takes time and dedication so I think other musicians respect and want to get down with other musicians of all levels. When rappers are a dime a dozen, you don't have any value as one, UNLESS you're making major moves.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I agree but I think hits in Hip hop can not and should not be limited to what is hot now. The guys that spend time crafting a unique sound that connects with the masses will not only aid in keeping this genre fresh, but they will also retain their artistic integrity by doing what is in their hearts, instead of what they feel they are supposed to do to get a hit.

There is way too much freedom to innovate in this genre, that we should just limit it to 1. pop or 2. backpackers.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #40
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cynic one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
Wow...lotta cool info here. Thanks, guys

So do you guys feel there's a lack of "middle-tier" success in hip hop? I might be totally missing something, but it seems to me (in all my insular ignoranceheh) that you're either at the bottom with nothing, or you're working for all the top cats in the industry; not necessarily being a top cat on your own, but doing stuff with and for major artists. Or is it that the "middle-tier" is just that: working with the superstars without really being one yourself?

...

EDIT - I should mention: I live in a city without much of a local hip hop scene, and certainly without a great deal of hip hop "identity". Perhaps artists in more hip-hop-friendly cities can find themselves with greater regional success than way up here in Boston?
Hell nah...Look at cats like Atmosphere, Living Legends, El-P, AesopRock, etc....I'd call those guys "middle-tier", although they outsell a lot of the lower-level "major" artists these days.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab ➑️
I agree but I think hits in Hip hop can not and should not be limited to what is hot now. The guys that spend time crafting a unique sound that connects with the masses will not only aid in keeping this genre fresh, but they will also retain their artistic integrity by doing what is in their hearts, instead of what they feel they are supposed to do to get a hit.

There is way too much freedom to innovate in this genre, that we should just limit it to 1. pop or 2. backpackers.
true
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic ➑️
Hell nah...Look at cats like Atmosphere, Living Legends, El-P, AesopRock, etc....I'd call those guys "middle-tier", although they outsell a lot of the lower-level "major" artists these days.
and i dont even know who they are...
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicB ➑️
and i dont even know who they are...
El-p..you have to listen to Cannibal Ox - The Cold Vein ASAP! It may not be a pop hit, but it was a huge hit in the underground...and let's not forget bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana were underground hits before they popped...so you never know. That album is a must listen if you like beats..period.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
cynic one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicB ➑️
and i dont even know who they are...
honestly that's really sad. to be a producer i feel you really should be a fan of the entire genre first and foremost.

you're missing out if all you listen to is the "majors". round your interests out a bit...
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No real album for me but 2 undeground "mini LP's" (6 songs x 2) one in 1999 one in 2001 (the budget was for the mixing and the mastering, no promo, at the time I was in my hood all day everyday, was selling my CDz between other products). I also did a compilation with a brunch of rappers from my hood (something like 30 dudes were involved in the project), 22 tracks, I did all the beats the recording and the mixing it was in 2003, sold it in the streets as usual.

Now I'm about to drop a single (indie, not a lot of money for the promo but a least not 0, we already have a few big records stores down to sell it, no major deal so far), I've got a few beats on some mixtape, I placed 5 beats to a rapper who is putting out his album (not a major dude but his mama's rich so he have a real budget for his promo). I'm also involved in two solo albums (hommies) but only god know when these projects will hit the streets.
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #46
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Agzilla's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Released about 6 ep's, Two full length LP's on CD and Vinyl under the name 'Deckwrecka'... Some singles, done remixes...

Made more money from Deejaying and shows though back in the day...

Nowadays it's all production jobs..... all kinds of stuff welcome and does get done...

Feel free to find out more at: Agzilla Productions - Professional soundscape, production and audio design




Some interesting posts in this thread.....

Peace.

Zz.

Last edited by Agzilla; 11th February 2009 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: Forgot something!
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic ➑️
honestly that's really sad. to be a producer i feel you really should be a fan of the entire genre first and foremost.

you're missing out if all you listen to is the "majors". round your interests out a bit...
I listen to EVERYTHING, I'll probably embarrass myself on this board if I admit what I was listening to this morning, but I just haven't been put onto those acts, now I know, and I'll do my listening.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
What about publicity/marketing firms? I've heard they can be a big asset, but do these types of firms exist for independent/underground hip hop?
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #49
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cynic one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindseye ➑️
What about publicity/marketing firms? I've heard they can be a big asset, but do these types of firms exist for independent/underground hip hop?
yeah but most want $5k to even get you smalltime mag reviews. i skipped going with them and compiled a list of indie djs on college stations, mag writers, and blog people...had a homey of mine who writes for a few indie mags do our bio and made those press packs myself.

didn't do us much good in the end because we only got a few reviews out of the whole deal.

you're gonna get looked at harder if your **** comes from a PR person writers are used to working with, so maybe it's worth it if you have the dough.

look into Biz 3 or Scorepress.

BIZ 3 Publicity
SCORE PRESS (mt)

i'm sure there's some other firms but those are the "larger" of the indie firms.
Old 12th February 2009
  #50
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"Howdy, folks. I'm curious as to how many of you rap, R&B, or hip-hop guys (and gals!) have released an album, whether as an artist or producer. I'm not talking about a mix tape, or a compilation, but a full-length, all-original-material album."

I have release one full length album as the artist and producer, entitled "Escape Plan." I just released an album as the producer entitled "Mega Ran 9."

"What kind of budgets do you work in? How long does it take you to make it, start-to-finish? What format do you release it?"

For "Escape Plan" my budget was one thousand dollars, and the rest of the expenses came out of my own pocket and borrowed money. The grand total was 3,700 dollars. For "Mega Ran 9" the budget was 100 dollars! "Escape Plan" took me three years to put together. "Mega Ran" took two months. Both are in hard copy as well as digital.

"How many songs? What's the running time? Do you include any skits or other "filler"-type tracks?"

Escape Plan: 14 full length songs, running 58 min, with 5 skits/intros/outros. Mega Ran: 9 full lengthers and a bonus on the hard copy version, with one interlude, running time 36 min.

"And how do you promote it? What avenues do you use to sell it?"

Escape Plan: Toured, lots of internet promo, and poster plastering. Sold in local music stores and over the net, iTunes, CdBaby, Digstation, and through my own website. Mega Ran 9 : its free, but it's on iTunes if you want to pay, and on some website somewhere.

"Also, do you play live shows? Do you sell your record at gigs? How does it sell? How much do you sell it for?"

All the time. Opening up for Dice Raw next week. I definitely sell records at gigs. Selling is tough, a good show I'll sell 10. Average is 5. I sell my records at 10$ a pop.

What kind of legal concerns have you come across (with regards to sample clearance, etc)?

"Escape Plan" I did very little sampling. I did however sample a local jazz guitar guy, and ended up doing a show with his pianist, who heard the track. This was before the release. The guitar player got wind of what I did, and sent me an email. I sent him the track, and he said he would let me use it if I gave him co-writing credit. Which I certainly did. "Mega Ran" exclusively uses samples from the Capcom game Mega Man. Capcom cleared all samples before we began production. I only had to purchase rights for one song on "Escape Plan." It cost me almost nothing - I was actually quite surprised.

"The reason I'm asking is because I've had an influx of mix gigs from hip hop artists lately (and actually, come to think of it, throughout my whole career), and many of them never seem to actually FINISH their record. And those that do don't seem to have a solid means of promoting their hard work. In the world of live bands, recording and promoting a record is a pretty standard, straight-ahead undertaking. I'm hoping to learn a bit more about how indie hip hop artists promote their albums so I can lend some advice to my clients working to get their music out there (and land myself more album gigsheh, which I personally find more rewarding than mixtapes or similar projects)."

Promotion is difficult, because for the most part, Hip Hop is terrible music. Objectively speaking - you use a backing track and perform straight vocals, which are generally either boring or hard to hear. While there are diamonds in the rough, there a mile between each grain of crap. No one actually wants to hear Hip Hop. The best method of promotion is the internets, and the good ol' fashion way of doing gigs and going above and beyond in order to win over the crowd. Also, performing with a live band really helps at the shows - but then you have to pay the band.

Thanks, everyone
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Boston?

Boston isn't Hip Hop friendly? I performed at Great Scott and had one of my best receptions ever.

Isn't the Rhymesayers/Def Jux/ Quannum Projects kind of middle tier?
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic ➑️
yeah but most want $5k to even get you smalltime mag reviews. i skipped going with them and compiled a list of indie djs on college stations, mag writers, and blog people...had a homey of mine who writes for a few indie mags do our bio and made those press packs myself.

didn't do us much good in the end because we only got a few reviews out of the whole deal.

you're gonna get looked at harder if your **** comes from a PR person writers are used to working with, so maybe it's worth it if you have the dough.

look into Biz 3 or Scorepress.

BIZ 3 Publicity
SCORE PRESS (mt)

i'm sure there's some other firms but those are the "larger" of the indie firms.
good lookin' out Cynic
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicB ➑️
I listen to EVERYTHING, I'll probably embarrass myself on this board if I admit what I was listening to this morning, but I just haven't been put onto those acts, now I know, and I'll do my listening.
And check out my boy Sage Francis while you're at it!
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #54
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bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➑️
Boston isn't Hip Hop friendly? I performed at Great Scott and had one of my best receptions ever.

Isn't the Rhymesayers/Def Jux/ Quannum Projects kind of middle tier?
Great Scott is pretty cool...I do sound there sometimes as a sub. It's a few blocks away from my studio; next time you're in town hit me up for a tour!!

And, knowing your tastes, yes, Boston is somewhat hip hop-friendly. But more for the fans than for the locals. Also, your tastes (from what I've heard of your music, which, for those reading this, is pretty damn awesome!) definitely tend towards the underground/backpacker style. But the problem is that Boston cats don't like Boston hip hop...folks all over the place love dudes like Mr. Lif or 7L and Esoteric, but the locals in the hood just wanna bite the newest dirty south rip-off and call it a day.

Anyway, I'm prolly talkin' ****. I had a stupid long work day and I'm cranky (nothin' to do with rap, though!heh), plus a little drunk, so I oughta get off this.

Night, folks!
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #55
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cynic one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
And check out my boy Sage Francis while you're at it!
sooooooo.....you ask about "middle tier" artists, and your "boy" is sage francis? i'd say he's right there at that level.
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #56
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gorillainthemix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm hoping to get some stuff going this year.
My "day job" is at a studio where we compose, record and mix commercials so I get to meet a lot of people from ad agencies and also some record company peeps. Via this network I got in contact with some A&R's from Universal here in Holland and I sent 1 song and some snippets I'm working on. Their response was something like "Nice. Keep me updated, send me more when it's done." At least I wasn't ignored.
So I guess I'll just finish what I'm doing and hopefully something good will come out of it. I'm 29 now, still a lot of time to grow and raising 2 boys (6 and 1).
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dutch Master ➑️
I'm hoping to get some stuff going this year.
My "day job" is at a studio where we compose, record and mix commercials so I get to meet a lot of people from ad agencies and also some record company peeps. Via this network I got in contact with some A&R's from Universal here in Holland and I sent 1 song and some snippets I'm working on. Their response was something like "Nice. Keep me updated, send me more when it's done." At least I wasn't ignored.
So I guess I'll just finish what I'm doing and hopefully something good will come out of it. I'm 29 now, still a lot of time to grow and raising 2 boys (6 and 1).
If you have someone communicating with you, that's a definite positive. I don't know how it is in Holland, but in LA, folks can definitely be flaky.

From my experience on the other side of the phone/email. "nice keep me updated means, I see some potential, but I want to hear a hit and/or nice music but it wouldn't work for the artists I have now"

I don't know if you've already done this, but I would ask that A&R, if they are looking for songs for any artists right now. THAT'S THE KEY! PEOPLE DON'T ASK! For instance, if you have some hip-hop tracks but they only have an r&b singer looking for tracks right now, no matter how hot your hip hop tracks are, they don't need them, so find out who needs music, then start working on material for them. Also find out what kind of artist it is, what direction they are taking them. most a&r people will say **** like "she's gonna be another leona lewis BUT BETTER!" lol at least you'll know the direction for your projects.

I'd work my ASS off right now to perfect whatever it is you're doing, I'd also ask the opinions of strangers and honest friends BEFORE you show the A&R. I know I hate criticism from cats that don't know anything about music production, but it's not the job of the consumer and the office people to know production so you can't assume they will see your vision. You gotta act like that presentation to that a&r could be your last. You gotta present that vision, or you'll be seen as mediocre. Good luck on that man!
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic ➑️
sooooooo.....you ask about "middle tier" artists, and your "boy" is sage francis? i'd say he's right there at that level.
I guess I didn't get my question across clearly enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
In the live music scene, there's a much more apparent indie culture, one which seems more all-encompassing (as opposed to what I think of when I think "indie hip hop", which is backpackers and dreadlocks - typically stuff that bears little relationship to what's happening commercially).
What I meant there was, I was noting that in other genres, the stylistic differences between the middle-tier guys and the super-stars are minimal. With hip hop, I've never heard a middle-tier that sounds like the top 40 radio stuff. The middle tier is more backpacker-oriented. It's a totally different sound, aesthetic, and often even a different philosophy. And a lotta the fans of those middle-tier acts can't stand the commercial stuff.

That leaves a lot of would-be up-and-comers in a kinda weird place. They wanna make music like their favorite commercial artists, but there's no outlet for them to do so unless they get to the top.

As for Sage, he's a perfect example: Sage operates on his own infrastructure, often touring with decidedly non-hip hop acts (who are also indies), and while he does really, really well, I suspect we'll never hear him played between Weezy and Luda on pop radio.

On the other hand, a successful underground band like the Sword tours the world with Metallica (a fellow metal band), playing to 100,000 people in football stadiums all over the world. They've been getting increasingly massive radio airplay over the course of this past year, and you could easily squeeze em between a couple established hard rock acts on the radio without them sticking out in an odd way.

So the quagmire is how can I help my commercially-oriented clients promote their records, what outlets do they use, and to whom do I suggest they promote to?

Does that make sense?
Old 12th February 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Lives for gear
 
gorillainthemix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicB ➑️
If you have someone communicating with you, that's a definite positive. I don't know how it is in Holland, but in LA, folks can definitely be flaky.

From my experience on the other side of the phone/email. "nice keep me updated means, I see some potential, but I want to hear a hit and/or nice music but it wouldn't work for the artists I have now"

I don't know if you've already done this, but I would ask that A&R, if they are looking for songs for any artists right now. THAT'S THE KEY! PEOPLE DON'T ASK! For instance, if you have some hip-hop tracks but they only have an r&b singer looking for tracks right now, no matter how hot your hip hop tracks are, they don't need them, so find out who needs music, then start working on material for them. Also find out what kind of artist it is, what direction they are taking them. most a&r people will say **** like "she's gonna be another leona lewis BUT BETTER!" lol at least you'll know the direction for your projects.

I'd work my ASS off right now to perfect whatever it is you're doing, I'd also ask the opinions of strangers and honest friends BEFORE you show the A&R. I know I hate criticism from cats that don't know anything about music production, but it's not the job of the consumer and the office people to know production so you can't assume they will see your vision. You gotta act like that presentation to that a&r could be your last. You gotta present that vision, or you'll be seen as mediocre. Good luck on that man!
Many thanx
I will follow your advice. I actually sent them some music with a singer on it, but failed (doh!) to ask them if they had anybody (already under contract) who might have been in need of new material. Good point...don't know why the hell I didn't think of that.
Old 13th February 2009 | Show parent
  #60
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cynic one's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto ➑️
I guess I didn't get my question across clearly enough.

What I meant there was, I was noting that in other genres, the stylistic differences between the middle-tier guys and the super-stars are minimal. With hip hop, I've never heard a middle-tier that sounds like the top 40 radio stuff. The middle tier is more backpacker-oriented. It's a totally different sound, aesthetic, and often even a different philosophy. And a lotta the fans of those middle-tier acts can't stand the commercial stuff.
Got you...Actually there's that "middle tier" any region you go.

I mean in my area you've got dudes like Messy Marv, Brotha Lynch, CBO, Yuckmouth, BLegit, etc. I'd say stylistically they're similar to the "top 40" stuff at times. Difference is their content is harder edged and really not radio friendly.

They're still known, but not "huge". They also can drop albums and they'll be supported on name recognition alone like your larger artists.

Quote:
So the quagmire is how can I help my commercially-oriented clients promote their records, what outlets do they use, and to whom do I suggest they promote to?

Does that make sense?
Mixtape DJs & street hustling seem to be the route you go there. FEATURES seem to be a big thing in this scenario too. A lot of cats won't even give your album a second look if there's not someone on there they've heard of.

Sucks but it's true.
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