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Engineer Mixing beats... Prices
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #121
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddash ➡️
I have had some of my beats mixed and they completely messed it up.

See THAT sucks. Hip Hop is tough to mix for people who don't engineer it. The drums are ludicrously forward when compared to rock and other genres. Over compression is a desired aesthetic. Gotta find someone who understands what the genre desires, not someone who is going to reject that in favor of some other kind of "sonic integrity." That engineer probably gave you a well balanced mix, which in Hip Hop is totally wrong.

But don't give up on us lowly sound tweakers. You've got your engineers who "get it" and will work WITH you to get what YOU WANT. And those are the same people who want your business and are willing to cut their rates for larger projects - 'cause it's really our only source of income.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #122
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️

If you are gonna buy salmon, you can buy the fresh stuff for $$$ or the frozen stuff for $$ or the **** in a can for $. Buy what you can afford. The stuff that tastes better will cost more. You have to decide how good you want it to taste and then decide if you can afford it.
Spend $ on cream cheese and cover that **** good. No one will notice the difference.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #123
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
@Storyville and Chris carter

I think if you are shopping your tracks then yes it is a must that they be mixed.These A&Rs and labels want it radio quality at first listen.

I think the ideal way to go is to find a great engineer and sit in with him or
suggest how you want it to sound and go from there.

I think only the producer really knows what he is looking for or how he wants it to sound. That is why I learned how to get a decent mix by myself.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #124
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CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you are a sculptor, you spend money on raw materials, not knowing for sure wether it will pay off and actually sell. You spend the money because you have to in order to do what you love.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #125
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
some engineers seem to want alot of money and want the mixes already sounding good when u send it to them...
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #126
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRACKPIPE ➡️
Don't sell beats for $50 then. Don't lower the market value because you can't afford to be in business. If it costs $200 to mix your beats down, then don't sell them for less then $200.00. If people can't afford it, tell them to save up. That's what i do.
how many beats do u sell? i dont know many people selling for much more than that if that at all. i personally dont pay that much for mixing if i hire someone to mix at all.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #127
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddash ➡️
I think if you are shopping your tracks then yes it is a must that they be mixed.These A&Rs and labels want it radio quality at first listen.
That's exactly right. There are too many indies (artists & producers) that say they want to go places with their music but they don't invest the time or money in their music. They do just enough to get by. But that's the problem. Everyone is doing just enough to get by. So how to you expect to stick out or get anyone's attention? It's unbelievable how many people I see who have convinced themselves that what they are doing is "good enough". And it's not just with music. It's with all kinds of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddash ➡️
I think the ideal way to go is to find a great engineer and sit in with him or
suggest how you want it to sound and go from there.
When I work with new "potential" clients, I always offer a free test mix. It's one thing to hear my previous work, but every song is different so there is no way to judge if I'm the right guy for your music until I mix one of your songs. IMO, it's much better for the client because they can hear something that's more close to them than other people's music. It's an immediate Yes or No. I've gotten plenty of new clients this way.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #128
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
^^^^^^^
Sounds great. I like that idea.

You will have another new client if you do $25 mixes for me.thumbsup
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #129
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MYAMS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddash ➡️
^^^^^^^
Sounds great. I like that idea.

You will have another new client if you do $25 mixes for me.thumbsup
isn't a $25 mix below min. wage? fugggetttabbouuutttiitttt
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #130
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
There was a brief period of time where I offered a free test mix thinking it might be good marketing. It didn't go well. I got a billion kiddies asking for the free test mix who didn't have the money to hire me when they liked it. "Yeah, sounds FREAKIN' INCREDIBLE!!!! I'm gonna hire you as soon as I get my money together.... which will be some time in 2015." I think free test mixes are a little silly honestly because people can just listen to tons of stuff I've done and decide if I'm good or not. And then I know if they can actually afford me BEFORE I start spending my time on their free "test" mix. If I did free test mixes I'd NEVER have enough time for paying work. Besides, offering a free test mix makes it look like you are DESPERATE for work because most (but surely not all) who do free test mixes ARE desparate for work. If you are just starting out as a mix engineer, then I think it's good because you have to have someone of building up a catalog of mixes for people to hear. But otherwise, I think it's silly.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #131
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➡️
Spend $ on cream cheese and cover that **** good. No one will notice the difference.
That cream cheese is called "mastering." Yes, I jest. But seriously, a lot of these hip-hop kiddies go have someone mix their tune for $25 (salmon in a can) and then when it sounds like sh!t they go, "that's 'cause it ain't MASTERED yet! (doesn't have cream cheese yet!)" They don't even understand that it should sound good BEFORE mastering.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #132
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jbrown1music's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonkerz ➡️
Damn... but a beat cd ranges from 8-16 tracks. Thats a little steep don't you think? That could potentially end up being around $3200 for a bunch of beats that might not even get placed. If thats the case how do up and coming producers go about getting their stuff mixed if they don't do it themselves. I've heard beat CD's from Surf Club, Needlz & Calvo Da Gr8 and all there beats have a good rough mix.

Every good producer should be able to mix their tracks good enough for beat cds. if u cant then u probably need to work on mixing b4 u start sending beat cds out. mixing a beat with no vocals is pretty simple especially with the daws out now. that is unless u have have hundreds of dollars to spend on having them mixed by a professional engineer. think about it. your going to spend hundreds with no promise of those tracks even selling. save your money and learn to mix
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #133
Gear Nut
 
BaySickLy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storyville ➡️
See THAT sucks. Hip Hop is tough to mix for people who don't engineer it. The drums are ludicrously forward when compared to rock and other genres. Over compression is a desired aesthetic. Gotta find someone who understands what the genre desires, not someone who is going to reject that in favor of some other kind of "sonic integrity." That engineer probably gave you a well balanced mix, which in Hip Hop is totally wrong.

But don't give up on us lowly sound tweakers. You've got your engineers who "get it" and will work WITH you to get what YOU WANT. And those are the same people who want your business and are willing to cut their rates for larger projects - 'cause it's really our only source of income.
I think a lot of people including me worry about getting advice from smart people who are stuck on the sonic integrity of their preferred genre. Everyone needs to have enough scope to understand different points of view and to have an understanding in the variety of taste of audiences.

It's a matter of testosterone. People with higher testosterone like the drums mixed higher and is the primary place of pattern focus in the brains. Those with less testosterone prefer to focus on the blended mixture of the ambiance.

Most people who are very smart have low testosterone therefore a lot of genius mixers tend to be biased against bangin' drums just as a pattern that has developed.

It's important to understand and respect the differences, testosterone levels, and varying intelligence levels of the audience.

A truly talented mixer understands multiple genre specifics.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #134
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaySickLy ➡️
I think a lot of people including me worry about getting advice from smart people who are stuck on the sonic integrity of their preferred genre. Everyone needs to have enough scope to understand different points of view and to have an understanding in the variety of taste of audiences.

It's a matter of testosterone. People with higher testosterone like the drums mixed higher and is the primary place of pattern focus in the brains. Those with less testosterone prefer to focus on the blended mixture of the ambiance.

Most people who are very smart have low testosterone therefore a lot of genius mixers tend to be biased against bangin' drums just as a pattern that has developed.

It's important to understand and respect the differences, testosterone levels, and varying intelligence levels of the audience.

A truly talented mixer understands multiple genre specifics.
Hmmmm.... I actually had my IQ tested recently and it was 144. I don't remember the technical specification that made me, but suffice to say it puts me in the "very smart" category. So I guess that means that my testosterone level is low and I'm going to be biased against bangin' drums? The funny thing is that when I mix rock records, the drums are obviously less protrusive than on say, a rap record, which would have "bangin'" drums. So I guess what you are telling me is that when I'm mixing a rock record my testosterone gets really low and I become really smart. And then when I mix a rap record with those bangin' drums, my testosterone goes through the roof and I become a total idiot.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #135
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYAMS ➡️
isn't a $25 mix below min. wage? fugggetttabbouuutttiitttt
lol i was thinking the same thing about minimum wage but then again how long does it really take you to mix a beat? At the same time why not maybe charge $25 an hour or something. Provided it doesnt take you 40 hours to complete one mix that might not be bad. I've met a few engineers who charge that way locally.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #136
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaySickLy ➡️
I think a lot of people including me worry about getting advice from smart people who are stuck on the sonic integrity of their preferred genre. Everyone needs to have enough scope to understand different points of view and to have an understanding in the variety of taste of audiences.

It's a matter of testosterone. People with higher testosterone like the drums mixed higher and is the primary place of pattern focus in the brains. Those with less testosterone prefer to focus on the blended mixture of the ambiance.

Most people who are very smart have low testosterone therefore a lot of genius mixers tend to be biased against bangin' drums just as a pattern that has developed.

It's important to understand and respect the differences, testosterone levels, and varying intelligence levels of the audience.

A truly talented mixer understands multiple genre specifics.
the problem with this is that it only works in a hip hop scenario. Testosterone only works for the aggressive section of tracks which varies from genre to genre. In hip hop thats typically in the drums. Btw I have an IQ of 140. Im considered highly intelligent and my favorite part of the beat are the drums.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #137
Gear Nut
 
BaySickLy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➡️
the problem with this is that it only works in a hip hop scenario. Testosterone only works for the aggressive section of tracks which varies from genre to genre. In hip hop thats typically in the drums. Btw I have an IQ of 140. Im considered highly intelligent and my favorite part of the beat are the drums.
Well it's a pattern that could explain certain scenarios and factors that permeate into many incalculable elements in how a person thinks and what gives them pleasure.

You guys have to realize that we are all the totality of our socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, morals, values, ideas, and all other products of human work and thought.

Testosterone accounts for a massive part of what motivates you. Women have 20 times less testosterone than men. Some men have less than others.

For every one example of the contrary, there are dozens of examples of someone booksmart at math that is bad at sports or vice versa.

Don't forget we are all born to be killers, hunters, and are later molded by society to coexist peacefully.

It's a whole 10 page essay, but what I propose is real and is just what I read in various biology and psychology texts, not my own theories.

Its something that I think is helpful for artists to understand their audience and the interplay between testosterone and our interests and tastes. Not a hardfast rule but rather a pattern of majority and general probability of predictable taste and the biological reason behind what motivates listeners to listen to what they listen to.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #138
Gear Nut
 
BaySickLy's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cheese ➡️
LOOOOOOOL. I'm gonna ask mixing engineer to get his blood work done before I let him mix my tracks.
Lol that's hilarious though by the way
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #139
Lives for gear
 
CRACKPIPE's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➡️
how many beats do u sell? i dont know many people selling for much more than that if that at all. i personally dont pay that much for mixing if i hire someone to mix at all.
Not many but a few here and there. I'm more in the underground realm (not in sound, but position in the game) so like mentioned, people aren't guappin like that. I give them my best mix and let them know that multis are available, but as far as I'm concerned, that's on them. That's their cost if they want it mixed by a pro.

If I was shopping beats to majors, I would pay to get them mixed, and from a major i would expect to get enough $$ to cover that. If not, no sale.

I look at my beats like diamonds. I'm not going to lower my price just to sell because I would be losing money. I wait till someone is serious and has the dough.

I guess ultimately if you can get decent mixes, do what i do, but if you suck ****, pay for the mixing and charge for it. Find customers that can afford it.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #140
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1 Review written
🎧 10 years
A Beat-maker approached me recently with an idea. His idea was to mix his own beats and try and sell them. Then tell his potential customer that they could buy the 2track beat as is for X about of money. As an option, they could pay Y dollars more and he'd send it to me to mix it over for his customer. He also wanted to do a similar thing with multitracks (except that he had yet to sell a multitrack, but nonetheless an interesting idea). He could sell the beat with multitrack consolidated files for P dollars. As an option he would sell my mixing packaged with it for an upcharge of Q dollars, which would provide a small discount on my mixing fee. Then his customer would give him the consolidated vox, he'd put them with the multitracked beat and upload to me acting kind of like a middle-man. His thought was that it would bring me more work with a single consistent client that was easy to work with, in exchange for a little bit of a discount. I thougth it was interesting. His main goal, which was smart, was that he didn't just want to sell beats, nor did he want his beats out there on street albums. He was thinking AHEAD and wanted to try and do what he could to have HIS cuts on those street albums sound BETTER than any of the other songs so that he'd get a lot of recognition and thus sell more beats. Anyway, interesting concept that I thought was very relevant to the discussion at hand.

He didn't ask me how much testosterone I have though, which was a big mistake. Always always always ask about that LOL.
Old 28th February 2010 | Show parent
  #141
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
$200 is on the low side considering that most amateur beat makers often have all sorts of conflicting basslines, subs and kicks. Plus I usually spend time making the arrangement more exciting (drops, etc.). Sometimes they are poorly tracked with many phasing issues.

My point is: to make some of these beats sound pro, it's gonna take more that 2 hours. Figure in the file transfer time, importing, bouncing... not to mention the time talking on the phone, emailing, etc.
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #142
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️
A Beat-maker approached me recently with an idea. His idea was to mix his own beats and try and sell them. Then tell his potential customer that they could buy the 2track beat as is for X about of money. As an option, they could pay Y dollars more and he'd send it to me to mix it over for his customer. He also wanted to do a similar thing with multitracks (except that he had yet to sell a multitrack, but nonetheless an interesting idea). He could sell the beat with multitrack consolidated files for P dollars. As an option he would sell my mixing packaged with it for an upcharge of Q dollars, which would provide a small discount on my mixing fee. Then his customer would give him the consolidated vox, he'd put them with the multitracked beat and upload to me acting kind of like a middle-man. His thought was that it would bring me more work with a single consistent client that was easy to work with, in exchange for a little bit of a discount. I thougth it was interesting. His main goal, which was smart, was that he didn't just want to sell beats, nor did he want his beats out there on street albums. He was thinking AHEAD and wanted to try and do what he could to have HIS cuts on those street albums sound BETTER than any of the other songs so that he'd get a lot of recognition and thus sell more beats. Anyway, interesting concept that I thought was very relevant to the discussion at hand
Thats a great idea. I was trying to do something similar but had trouble finding willing engineers but I only looked on twitter
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #143
Lives for gear
 
KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopamine ➡️
$200 is on the low side considering that most amateur beat makers often have all sorts of conflicting basslines, subs and kicks. Plus I usually spend time making the arrangement more exciting (drops, etc.). Sometimes they are poorly tracked with many phasing issues.

My point is: to make some of these beats sound pro, it's gonna take more that 2 hours. Figure in the file transfer time, importing, bouncing... not to mention the time talking on the phone, emailing, etc.
If the producer doesn't know how to get a proper bassline or sub kicks and doesn't have a good arrangement already then thats their own fault. Phone calls, importing, bouncing, emailing and downloads are part of the job. Why would that be an inconvenience for you? If it was a local contact would you charge them extra because you showed up to the studio too?
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #144
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
^^^^^^
I agree. It makes no sense.
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #145
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xabiton ➡️
because a lot of rappers aren't informed enough to know that you have to have the vocals and the beat mixed together. I try using the cake scenario (if you try to bake a cake and forget the eggs u cant add them after attempting to bake) but its usually useless trying to explain to them
I'm confused? Does everyone assume that the term 'beat' is for hip hop / rap only??!
What about the dudes like J.R. Rotem, David Guetta, Doctor Luke, etc. Those dudes make tracks/beats every day, but 90 percent of their tracks DO NOT have rappers on them. I think someone should define why everyone thinks that the term 'beat' refers to hip hop only?? I have made over a dozen tracks / beats this month and not a single one of them is intended for a rapper. Now that I think about it... I haven't made a track / beat for a rapper in over a year.
What do you call an instrumental used for pop/r&b/dance? I would think you'd call it a beat??
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #146
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBeats ➡️
I'm confused? Does everyone assume that the term 'beat' is for hip hop / rap only??!
What about the dudes like J.R. Rotem, David Guetta, Doctor Luke, etc. Those dudes make tracks/beats every day, but 90 percent of their tracks DO NOT have rappers on them. I think someone should define why everyone thinks that the term 'beat' refers to hip hop only?? I have made over a dozen tracks / beats this month and not a single one of them is intended for a rapper. Now that I think about it... I haven't made a track / beat for a rapper in over a year.
What do you call an instrumental used for pop/r&b/dance? I would think you'd call it a beat??
I am only speaking on hip hop because this section focuses on hip hop. I dont even like the term beat to be honest but its a term everyone understands. Im not sure what people do for pop/dance/r&b because I dont really follow those genres
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #147
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ryst's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cheese ➡️
to add:

Do you mix hip hop?
I live in Atlanta at the moment (moving to LA very soon). So yes, Hip Hop is the majority of my income right now and has been since I started doing music full time here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️
There was a brief period of time where I offered a free test mix thinking it might be good marketing. It didn't go well. I got a billion kiddies asking for the free test mix who didn't have the money to hire me when they liked it. "Yeah, sounds FREAKIN' INCREDIBLE!!!! I'm gonna hire you as soon as I get my money together.... which will be some time in 2015."
I've rarely had that problem. I only mentioned the "free test mix" here because I thought it was relevant to the discussion. And I wasn't correct when I say I "always" offer a free test mix. Because I don't. I have more often than not recently because I've been dealing with a lot of clients that don't have much money. I hardly ever offer a test mix to someone who has a pretty decent budget. People with money are usually much less of a headache for me and usually know what they want. It's the clients without money who seem to want everything for nothing and are a pain in the ass to deal with if you don't know how to protect yourself. My mix rate is flexible. But the clients without much money don't get as much time from me for the mix as the ones with money. It doesn't make sense for me to spend all day on a mix where I'm charging $100 as opposed to $1000. So my test mixes are usually for the clients with very small budgets. But they are really happy with my $100 mixes (if that's all they can afford). And my test mix doesn't take up much of my time at all (1-2 hours tops). I have a nice PT mix template that I've developed specifically for this that gets the job done quickly.

And even with the clients that do get a test mix from me, I still "investigate" the client as much as I can to make sure I'm not getting screwed before I offer anything. Of course it's not guaranteed but I've been very careful and it's worked out well. In fact, recently I did a test mix for a client that I thought was trying to get something for free so I sent him a 1 minute sample of the mix instead of the whole song to protect myself. Not only did he pay for it in full but now he's sending me work every week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️
I think free test mixes are a little silly honestly because people can just listen to tons of stuff I've done and decide if I'm good or not.
That's the reason why I offer test mixes. There are a ton of stories where a band or artist goes to a very well known producer/engineer and ends up not liking the final result. Not every engineer is right for every job they get. So it can be good for the client to hear something with their song. But at the same time, if a band/artist spent a bunch of money on a engineer and didn't like the result and come to me complaining that they don't have much money, I usually just walk away. I can smell the headache a mile away and try my best to avoid it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️
And then I know if they can actually afford me BEFORE I start spending my time on their free "test" mix. If I did free test mixes I'd NEVER have enough time for paying work. Besides, offering a free test mix makes it look like you are DESPERATE for work because most (but surely not all) who do free test mixes ARE desparate for work. If you are just starting out as a mix engineer, then I think it's good because you have to have someone of building up a catalog of mixes for people to hear. But otherwise, I think it's silly.
I disagree with the desperate part. And it's not silly when it works. Not one of my clients or potential clients ever thought I was desperate for anything. Again, I've hardly been screwed from this (knock on wood). I don't go around town offering every man woman and child a free test mix so I can get work. And I'm not standing on the corner with a sign draped over my front and back that says "Get your free test mixes here". Before we even get into that I talk to the client about their project and go with my gut feeling from there.

Also, I've been offered a free test mastering job by a very well known and well respected mastering engineer for my new EP. And now, he's got my business. I got to hear his work in action and I'm impressed and can't wait to send him the final mixes. This guy didn't come across as desperate at all because in reality he's not. I've also seen other well respected engineers offer test mixes as well. If you are desperate it has more to do with the way you handle yourself than what you offer, IMO. I know some successful desperate producers/engineers that haven't lowered their price at all.
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #148
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Storyville's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter ➡️
Hmmmm.... I actually had my IQ tested recently and it was 144. I don't remember the technical specification that made me, but suffice to say it puts me in the "very smart" category. So I guess that means that my testosterone level is low and I'm going to be biased against bangin' drums? The funny thing is that when I mix rock records, the drums are obviously less protrusive than on say, a rap record, which would have "bangin'" drums. So I guess what you are telling me is that when I'm mixing a rock record my testosterone gets really low and I become really smart. And then when I mix a rap record with those bangin' drums, my testosterone goes through the roof and I become a total idiot.
Those drums are STUPID BANGIN'! Damn, 144 is Mensa qualifiers. I do sample mixes on request, but I don't have quite the resume to just say check the demo reel. I'm around the corner from that point, and looking forward to it.

The only problem with the sample mixes is that I don't always have time to commit to doing a good sample mix. If I'm happy with the sample mix... well... that's probably the mix.
Old 1st March 2010 | Show parent
  #149
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Just go to this guys site, he'll do a good job. For an affordable price.

Mixes/Work « An Awful Ruckus Media
Old 2nd March 2010 | Show parent
  #150
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KevWest's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg Rome ➡️
Just go to this guys site, he'll do a good job. For an affordable price.

Mixes/Work « An Awful Ruckus Media
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